Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan

[Matthias]

Not sure what you have in mind here, but it seems invalid to me.

That’s an odd principle. I wouldn’t have gotten far in civil engineering, nor in theology, if I had embraced it.

I prefer what the bible clearly teaches.

The Bible isn’t always clear. There are ambiguities which must be worked at, using sound hermeneutical principles, to be adequately resolved.

Strange comment. Yes the word Satan means adversary in a good or bad sense, but I do not have any adverse feelings towards those that have a different or opposing opinion. As far as being puffed up in pride, I do not feel proud, especially when talking to you as I am far less educated as I worked as an electrical draftsman most of my life drawing straight lines and some text, while you were a lecturer at an Academic Religious College. I am not one of our appointed ecclesial speakers, but certainly join in with any discussions on a variety of topics, and most of these are different to what I have discussed on forums.

Kind regards
Trevor

You’re a kind soul, Trevor. You have a proud rep here who is doing the boasting for Christadelphianism.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Matthias,

I wouldn’t have gotten far in civil engineering, nor in theology, if I had embraced it.

I enjoyed and felt satisfied with my two eras of electrical drafting, the first in Substation Design for the Transmission Sector and then after a brief period in Power Station Design, I spent many years as the Electrical Draftsman in a Power Station.

The Bible isn’t always clear. There are ambiguities which must be worked at, using sound hermeneutical principles, to be adequately resolved.

I am still not sure why you suggest the necessity of understanding or referencing the occult. Reminds me very much of Isaiah's warning:
Isaiah 8: 19-20 (KJV): 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

You have a proud rep here who is doing the boasting for Christadelphianism.

Not sure that he is proud, but may come across like that. Possibly he has not had some of the rough edges smoothed off, and one factor could be that he is in isolation or belongs to a small Ecclesia in a country town where he rules the roost. My grandfather and uncle used to be in isolation, and my impression was that they were not really proud, but my grandfather had the nickname The Professor from Spickett's Creek, and they were stubborn with some of their unique views. They were out of fellowship with most Ecclesias in NSW.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Hiddenthings]

Not sure that he is proud, but may come across like that. Possibly he has not had some of the rough edges smoothed off, and one factor could be that he is in isolation or belongs to a small Ecclesia in a country town where he rules the roost. My grandfather and uncle used to be in isolation, and my impression was that they were not really proud, but my grandfather had the nickname The Professor from Spickett's Creek, and they were stubborn with some of their unique views. They were out of fellowship with most Ecclesias in NSW.

Not really... what may seem like arrogance (or pride) is actually confidence, but it’s the strength of the arguments that truly challenges Matthias.

He may boast about the Book of Enoch and base his entire interpretation of the devil on it, but he will never be able to reconcile Jewish mythology with the truth of the Inspired Word.

No number of memes or deflecting statements will help his understanding of Genesis 3:1.

I’ve truly enjoyed sharing this truth with the forum (and with Matthias) over the past six weeks. Hopefully, in time, those who are still on the fence will take the opportunity to examine these often-misrepresented Scriptures for themselves and come to recognize the truth about the real enemy.

God bless your discussion with Matthias.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Hiddenthings,

Not really... what may seem like arrogance (or pride) is actually confidence, but it’s the strength of the arguments that truly challenges Matthias.

I was a bit worried, but I am glad that you did not take offence at what I stated. My grandfather came from a family and families of strong Methodists and he was at the University to train as a Minister when he met a Christadelphian. He was then ostracised by his family and many relatives. A few of his unique views could have been carried over from his Methodist background. He became a schoolteacher instead of the ministry.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Hiddenthings]

Greetings again Hiddenthings,

I was a bit worried, but I am glad that you did not take offence at what I stated. My grandfather came from a family and families of strong Methodists and he was at the University to train as a Minister when he met a Christadelphian. He was then ostracised by his family and many relatives. A few of his unique views could have been carried over from his Methodist background. He became a schoolteacher instead of the ministry.

Kind regards
Trevor

I’m not easily offended, Trevor, and I’ve faced persecution for preaching these truths for nearly 32 years. While some may find my approach challenging, my main concern is that everyone takes the time to study these matters for themselves. I’ve enjoyed many meaningful conversations in this forum, and the members are sincere in their faith. However, when it comes to the subject of the devil, there is a serious misunderstanding that harms their grasp of who the true enemy is and the battle we are called to fight.

We hold a precious, priceless pearl, one I am certainly never ashamed of.

 

[Matthias]

I am still not sure why you suggest the necessity of understanding or referencing the occult. Reminds me very much of Isaiah's warning:
Isaiah 8: 19-20 (KJV): 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The occult is the realm of supernatural evil spirits.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Matthias,

The occult is the realm of supernatural evil spirits.

Wiki seems to give a different definition. The following is the start of the article:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The occult (from Latin occultus 'hidden, secret') is a category of esoteric or supernatural beliefs and practices which generally fall outside the scope of organized religion and science, encompassing phenomena involving a 'hidden' or 'secret' agency, such as magic and mysticism. It can also refer to paranormal ideas such as extra-sensory perception and parapsychology.
The term occult sciences was used in 16th-century Europe to refer to astrology, alchemy, and natural magic. The term occultism emerged in 19th-century France, among figures such as Antoine Court de Gébelin.[2] It came to be associated with various French esoteric groups connected to Éliphas Lévi and Papus, and in 1875 was introduced into the English language by the esotericist Helena Blavatsky.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Matthias]

Greetings again Matthias,

Wiki seems to give a different definition. The following is the start of the article:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The occult (from Latin occultus 'hidden, secret') is a category of esoteric or supernatural beliefs and practices which generally fall outside the scope of organized religion and science, encompassing phenomena involving a 'hidden' or 'secret' agency, such as magic and mysticism. It can also refer to paranormal ideas such as extra-sensory perception and parapsychology.
The term occult sciences was used in 16th-century Europe to refer to astrology, alchemy, and natural magic. The term occultism emerged in 19th-century France, among figures such as Antoine Court de Gébelin.[2] It came to be associated with various French esoteric groups connected to Éliphas Lévi and Papus, and in 1875 was introduced into the English language by the esotericist Helena Blavatsky.

Kind regards
Trevor

I mentioned this in another thread, connecting it with the mantra “no origin story = not real”.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I mentioned this in another thread, connecting it with the mantra “no origin story = not real”.

It’s concerning because much of the vivid imagery that has taken root in the minds of well-meaning Christians lacks any real support from inspired Scripture.

It's a doctrine that simply can't be defended.

 

[Matthias]

“There is so much blblical evidence that points to the truth that the devil is real. In fact, I believe the only way a person would not acknowledge his existence is because of denial or deception. Both are a reality because the god of this world, the devil, has the capacity to blind people. Deception is probably his greatest weapon. That’s why it is so important to pray for God to awaken people from their spiritual blindness. We were all blind once and God gave us sight so we can help others. I leave you with this verse that reminds you of Paul’s journey and commission to help people go from spiritual blindness to light.

’I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ - Acts 26:17-18”

Is the Devil Real? - Biblical and Historical Evidence

Is the devil real? I want to give you three points of evidence that reveal very clearly the existence of this one called the devil or Satan

www.crosswalk.com

Compare this with what those who are trying to persuade you that the devil isn’t real are saying. The spirit isn’t the same. I doubt even they would deny that.

It isn’t those who are teaching that the devil is real who are enlisting the aid of the ungodly. It’s those who are teaching that the devil is not real who are.

 

[Hiddenthings]

’I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ - Acts 26:17-18”[

Great section of Scripture Matthias

I am the Lord; I have called you in righteousness.
I will take you by the hand and keep you;
I will give you as a covenant for the people,
a light for the Gentiles,
to open the eyes that are blind,
to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon,
from the prison those who sit in darkness Isaiah 42:6-7

What is the Power which holds people in prisons?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

The adversary is Sins Power which the Gospel preached and the forgiveness of Sin releases those from the fear and slavery of death.

 

[Matthias]

The devil‘s spin is that there is no evidence that he is real. We have it on the Messiah’s word that he is a liar.

 

[Hiddenthings]

View attachment 68069

The devil‘s spin is that there is no evidence that he is real.

What is the relationship between the forgiveness of sin and the power of satan?

 

[David in NJ]

This is what wrote in the Book of Enoch.

Enoch was the seventh from Adam

Would love an actual manuscript from his time!!!

 

[Hiddenthings]

What is the relationship between the forgiveness of sin and the power of satan?

 

[Matthias]

“Make sure Satan has to climb over a lot of Scripture to get to you.” - John MacArthur

 

[Hiddenthings]

“Make sure Satan has to climb over a lot of Scripture to get to you.” - John MacArthur

How does Scripture withstand godlike power? You must be incredibly powerful to not have been thrown into prison or been overcome with 7 demons Matthias.

 

[Matthias]

That detail is provided later in scripture.



I see a double entendre in the description of the incident.

Wes Huff describes a triple entendre in this short (6:45) video.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Matthias,

Was Satan a Talking Snake? Wes Huff describes a triple entendre in this short (6:45) video.

No, and he uses many words and ideas to try to disparage the clear teaching of Genesis 3:1. The Serpent was a creature, created on Day 6 of the Genesis 1 account, and it had discerning ability and given the power of speech. One detail, the Seraphim of Isaiah 6 and the serpents of Numbers 21 have a strong connection, especially the brazen serpent which Jesus clearly refers to in John 3;14-16 and applies this to his own crucifixion.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Matthias]

Greetings again Matthias,

No ….

I didn’t expect you to say yes. In fact, I would have been very surprised if you had. That would have put an end to your days as a Christadelphian.

… and he uses many words and ideas to try to disparage the clear teaching of Genesis 3:1.

He’s not disparaging Genesis 3:1. He’s disparaging your dogma. It’s the same when your apologist can’t rightly distinguish between what heaven rejects and what your apologist rejects.

The Serpent was a creature, created on Day 6 of the Genesis 1 account, and it had discerning ability and given the power of speech. One detail, the Seraphim of Isaiah 6 and the serpents of Numbers 21 have a strong connection, especially the brazen serpent which Jesus strongly refers to in John 3;14-16 and applies this to his own crucifixion.

Kind regards
Trevor