Christian baker and transgender cake lawsuit

[Scott Downey]

I believe how we treat people is a testimony of the living Christ guiding us through this world, from within us.

We are a testimony.

Jesus tells us, the natural person does not understand the things of God, they are foolishness to them.

The truth of God, the gospel of Jesus, is spiritually discerned.

God changes that. Not us. We are examples to the natural person. They do not understand the things of God, but they will remember how those who claim to treated them in his name.

yes, that is right, the natural man does not understand, In fact they cannot ever. It is up to God to be merciful to the unsaved so that they be saved, God does that by changing their heart, giving to them a new spirit, otherwise they will never believe in Christ.

God even sends strong delusion on the wicked who refuse to repent so that they believe the lie of the devil. They truly are locked into their fates.

Example here, however God has chosen within himself to choose to save some and that from the beginning of time for salvation, because those God loves with a great love, He saves them as Ephesians 2 says.

The Great Apostasy​

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Fast​

13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

,

 

[TinMan]

A good indication might be if they ordered a wedding cake with 2 groom figurines on it or some other such identifying mark.

Not that it matters what a person believes or thinks they know about someone else, as a rule.

What matters is the attempt to force an artist to facilitate the celebration of a sinful lifestyle.

Not sure why this simple concept is so elusive to so many folks.

Or why objecting to such attempts is considered hateful and unChristian.

.

Why are those who view racial equality as a sin forced to serve people of color in their businesses? Of course no one in their right mind would consider refusing advertised services to black people hateful.

 

[BarneyFife]

Why are those who view racial equality as a sin forced to serve people of color in their businesses?

Maybe because serving basic human needs and endorsing sin with artistic expression are not exactly the same.

I know a cognitive distortion can be whipped up easily enough to justify one in believing and protesting that they are the same, but that doesn't make the truth of the matter any less true.

So the straw men, oops, I mean klansmen still aren't anywhere to be found in the building (this thread).

It's not a sin to be born of a particular race.

I'd bake a cake for American Black History Month.

It is a sin for a man to lie with a man, as with a woman, though.

That is, unless you believe that Romans 1 and Leviticus 18 are just hate-based talking points.

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[BlessedPeace]

Maybe because serving basic human needs and endorsing sin with artistic expression are not exactly the same.

I know a cognitive distortion can be whipped up easily enough to justify one in believing and protesting that they are the same, but that doesn't make the truth of the matter any less true.

So the straw men, oops, I mean klansmen still aren't anywhere to be found in the building (this thread).

It's not a sin to be born of a particular race.

I'd bake a cake for American Black History Month.

It is a sin for a man to lie with a man, as with a woman, though.

That is, unless you believe that Romans 1 and Leviticus 18 are just hate-based talking points.

.

Only artistic expressionist are entitled to break the law?

All those in authority are seated by God and his will. Politicians and those in the judicial branch meet that criteria.

Equal rights.
Some are less equal than others?

 

[BarneyFife]

Only artistic expressionist are entitled to break the law?

Conscientious objection isn't exactly the same thing as entitlement.

I know a cognitive distortion can be whipped up easily enough to justify one in believing and protesting that they are the same, but that doesn't make the truth of the matter any less true.

All those in authority are seated by God and his will. Politicians and those in the judicial branch meet that criteria.

If I recall correctly, you wouldn't be singing this tune if we were talking about abortion.

Or maybe Kings who had Hebrew boys thrown into fiery furnaces.

Or SchutzStaffel hoods who exterminated women and children by the millions.

It's all okay if it's got the Seal of Caesar, is it?

No, I wouldn't put that rap on you.

But you think I'd get triggered by a bumpersticker and leave a homosexual to die in a blizzard.

Equal rights.
Some are less equal than others?

Like women who want equal rights in "reproductive healthcare?"

.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Conscientious objection isn't exactly the same thing as entitlement.

I know a cognitive distortion can be whipped up easily enough to justify one in believing and protesting that they are the same, but that doesn't make the truth of the matter any less true.



If I recall correctly, you wouldn't be singing this tune if we were talking about abortion.

Or maybe Kings who had Hebrew boys thrown into fiery furnaces.

Or SchutzStaffel hoods who exterminated women and children by the millions.

It's all okay if it's got the Seal of Caesar, is it?

No, I wouldn't put that rap on you.

But you think I'd get triggered by a bumpersticker and leave a homosexual to die in a blizzard.



Like women who want equal rights in "reproductive healthcare?"

.

Cognitive Distortion?
Far too many red herrings and 1 false attribution there.

That makes three in just a few hours by 3 different people.
Hopefully, those are the exceptions and not the rule of behaviors here.

 

[TinMan]

Maybe because serving basic human needs and endorsing sin with artistic expression are not exactly the same.

Racists view blacks acting as the social and moral equals or whites as a violation of God's.

Try again.

Why are Bussiness owners who view racial equality as a sin still forced to serve black people?

I know a cognitive distortion can be whipped up easily enough to justify one in believing and protesting that they are the same, but that doesn't make the truth of the matter any less true.

the cognitive distortion is yours. In both instances a business owner who views providing service to a particular minority is in some way sinful but you only defend and justify discrimination for one of them. And it is no coincidence that the discrimination you justify aligns with your personal prejudice.

So the straw men, oops, I mean klansmen still aren't anywhere to be found in the building (this thread).

It's not a sin to be born of a particular race.

Racists agree, it is not a sin to be born black, but when blacks act as social and moral equals to whites then they say they are sinning. They are hating the sin and loving the sinner.

I'd bake a cake for American Black History Month.

It is a sin for a man to lie with a man, as with a woman, though.

That is, unless you believe that Romans 1 and Leviticus 18 are just hate-based talking points.

.

If someone these verses justify hate or violence or in this case discrimination that person is using them as hate-based talking points.

 

[TinMan]

Or SchutzStaffel hoods who exterminated women and children by the millions.

And homosexuals to. Or was that OK?

 

[BlessedPeace]

The record is open for all to see.



Don't worry. You'll feel quite at home with the others who like to shame folks who fear the LORD according to Proverbs 8:13.

And homosexuals to. Or was that OK?

Jews were made to wear the the yellow star on their attire while in the ghettos they were relegated to by the Nazis. Homosexuals were identified by a pink triangle sewn on their clothing.

Homosexuals were used as study subjects for the most sadistic scientific research.

Hitler was an animal lover and freed all lab animals. Only to replace them with Jews, Homosexuals, Roma, and others deemed worthy.

 

[BarneyFife]

Racists view blacks acting as the social and moral equals or whites as a violation of God's.

Try again.

Why are Bussiness owners who view racial equality as a sin still forced to serve black people?

the cognitive distortion is yours. In both instances a business owner who views providing service to a particular minority is in some way sinful but you only defend and justify discrimination for one of them. And it is no coincidence that the discrimination you justify aligns with your personal prejudice.

Racists agree, it is not a sin to be born black, but when blacks act as social and moral equals to whites then they are sinning. They hating the sin and loving the sinner.

If someone these verses justify hate or violence or in this case discrimination that person is using them as hate-based talking points.

And homosexuals to. Or was that OK?

Jews were made to wear the the yellow star on their attire while in the ghettos they were relegated to by the Nazis. Homosexuals were identified by a pink triangle sewn on their clothing.

Homosexuals were used as study subjects for the most sadistic scientific research.

Hitler was an animal lover and freed all lab animals. Only to replace them with Jews, Homosexuals, Roma, and others deemed worthy.

The kind of reasoning that makes a man choose to abstain from expressing himself artistically in celebration of Biblically condemned sin is not in any way comparable to the kind of pathological venom that was on display during the 1930s and 1940s in Germany. Nor is it comparable to Jim Crow hatred.

This has been demonstrated by the Bible itself. There are few, if any, news stories about Christians being jailed for refusing to bake African-themed cakes because virtually everyone knows it's not a sin to be born with African ancestry. Nor is it a sin for folks with African ancestry to associate with folks of other lineage. It's difficult to understand why this is not obvious to some. The several lists of sins that include sexual perversion in the Bible are conspicuously absent of race separation or condemnation.

And the consciences of all Christians cannot be bound by the twisted minds of a few white supremacist offshoots that call in vain upon the name of Christ, no matter how energetically some may petition for such binding.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

 

[TinMan]

The kind of reasoning that makes a man choose to abstain from expressing himself artistically in celebration of Biblically condemned sin is not in any way comparable to the kind of pathological venom that was on display during the 1930s and 1940s in Germany. Nor is it comparable to Jim Crow hatred.

And the people who hated like that all held their bibles and assured themselves that they are not bad people, that they were good people following God's law and will just like the baker and just like those who send money to missions that seek to get 3rd world countries to make laws allowing the exaction of LGBT people. To hate is always a choice just as it's always a choice to justify it.

This has been demonstrated by the Bible itself. There are few, if any, news stories about Christians being jailed for refusing to bake African-themed cakes

just as no one is being jailed for discriminating against LGBT people.

And I am sure that if a business did choose to discriminate against someone because of their skin color they would face the consequences of that choice and sadly there would be many who would defend them.

because virtually everyone knows it's not a sin to be born with African ancestry.

No one has suggested it is. Racists however view people of color who act as the social and moral equals of whites are sinning

Nor is it a sin for folks with African ancestry to associate with folks of other lineage. It's difficult to understand why this is not obvious to some. The several lists of sins that include sexual perversion in the Bible are conspicuously absent of race separation or condemnation.

And yet generations justified slavery and Jim Crow and segregation and racism by quoting the bible

And the consciences of all Christians cannot be bound by the twisted minds of a few white supremacist offshoots that call in vain upon the name of Christ, no matter how energetically some may petition for such binding.

.

And the conscience of all Christians cannot be bound by the "twisted minds" of a few homophobes that call in vain upon the name of Christ.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I suggest this thread has veered way off topic when we conflate the evils of the Holocaust and a psychotic dictators pathological final solution with a baker who discriminates against homosexuals and children.

 

[TinMan]

I suggest this thread has veered way off topic when we conflate the evils of the Holocaust and a psychotic dictators pathological final solution with a baker who discriminates against homosexuals and children.

Sadly it wasn't just a psychotic dictator. The Holocaust required the consent or at the very least the indifference of people in and out of Germany. Just like in the United States lynching was not the act of a few but of whole communities who didn't view it as wrong. It all starts with prejudice and then moves to discrimination and how often do we see those witness to discrimination rush to the defense of those engaging in it... that it isn't my problem... that it is the fault of those being discriminated against... that they deserve it....

 

[gpresdo]

Why are those who view racial equality as a sin forced to serve people of color in their businesses? Of course no one in their right mind would consider refusing advertised services to black people hateful.

Being a black person is not sinful.
Why do you state that? Are you saying we should tell a black person to go and be not black anymore?
God, please guide this poster.

 

[BarneyFife]

I suggest this thread has veered way off topic when we conflate the evils of the Holocaust and a psychotic dictators pathological final solution with a baker who discriminates against homosexuals and children.

You'll find that that is typical of the preferred modes of operation to which some seem irresistibly compelled to further their various agendas.

,

 

[amigo de christo]

Why are those who view racial equality as a sin forced to serve people of color in their businesses? Of course no one in their right mind would consider refusing advertised services to black people hateful.

And that be because the color of our skin is not sin . But homosexuality IS SIN .
Try to remember that . SIN is sin . the color of the skin is not sin . WICKEDNESS , all that is contrary to GOD , HIS word
That IS SIN . Learn truth my friend . Not what the social justice all inclusive delusion tries to say is truth or love .
cause they are BIG TIME decieved .
Learn the BIBLE . LEARN that JESUS CHRIST , learn His teachings and learn what the apostels wrote .
OR continue to be decieved , the choice is yours . But beware for if a man who cliams to be christain
continues to try and decieve other christains , correction cometh and you WONT like it either .

 

[gpresdo]

Those various agendas as revealed by discussions are very important for a newbie to become aware of so he can be prepared of what faces him in his trek of living for Christ.
Even Christ addresses this where He say..."you may pay a price for following Me".

 

[BarneyFife]

And the people who hated like that all held their bibles and assured themselves that they are not bad people, that they were good people following God's law and will just like the baker and just like those who send money to missions that seek to get 3rd world countries to make laws allowing the exaction of LGBT people. To hate is always a choice just as it's always a choice to justify it.

just as no one is being jailed for discriminating against LGBT people.

And I am sure that if a business did choose to discriminate against someone because of their skin color they would face the consequences of that choice and sadly there would be many who would defend them.


No one has suggested it is. Racists however view people of color who act as the social and moral equals of whites are sinning


And yet generations justified slavery and Jim Crow and segregation and racism by quoting the bible

And the conscience of all Christians cannot be bound by the "twisted minds" of a few homophobes that call in vain upon the name of Christ.

Sadly it wasn't just a psychotic dictator. The Holocaust required the consent or at the very least the indifference of people in and out of Germany. Just like in the United States lynching was not the act of a few but of whole communities who didn't view it as wrong. It all starts with prejudice and then moves to discrimination and how often do we see those witness to discrimination rush to the defense of those engaging in it... that it isn't my problem... that it is the fault of those being discriminated against... that they deserve it....

.​

 

[TinMan]

Being a black person is not sinful.
Why do you state that? Are you saying we should tell a black person to go and be not black anymore?
God, please guide this poster.

I also said: "Racists agree, it is not a sin to be born black, but when blacks act as social and moral equals to whites then they say they are sinning. They are hating the sin and loving the sinner."