Christian baker and transgender cake lawsuit

[marks]

it's exactly what you did.

No, I replaced one thing with another unrelated thing. I in no wise made a comparison. If you disagree, quote where I did. Once again we seem stuck at an elementary language issue.

Much love!

 

[TinMan]

Muslim Bakers refused to bake cake for GAYS .

They have?

 

[TinMan]

I thouht we were talking about people who identify as transexual. Is the minority you have in mind the mentally ill?

Much love!

Yes they are a minority

No they are not mentally ill

saying a minority is mentally ill followed by "much love" shows that love is the last thing you are presenting here

 

[TinMan]

Ummmmmm, You realize, neither group reacts unless the activist cause the problem? The Muslims conducted business as usual, the Christians the same ..... It's not until an activist with an agenda points the gun at the head of the business person that the problem arises. If you want a cake with John and Harry holding hands ....why not add the statue after leaving the store? The person entering with an agenda is the problem .....

If only they would just sit in the back of the bus

 

[marks]

Yes they are a minority

No they are not mentally ill

saying a minority is mentally ill followed by "much love" shows that love is the last thing you are presenting here

Actually, a failure to diagnose an illness because you don't believe in it, that's doing harm by ommission.

Men who believe they are women, for instance, are suffering from a delusion and should be treated. Of course, there's a lot more to it than that. Sexual identity issues have deep and complex roots some times. Sometimes it's more like sexual fetish. People want justification - I was born this way!

Telling the heroin addict that they actually have a natural heroin deficiency, and they should be injecting daily, isn't helping them. Calling them a minority that should be protected from anyone trying to help them become drug free isn't helping either.

Much love!

 

[dev553344]

Promoting a human male as a female or female as a male is a deception. This all reminds me of the crop circle that translated "we oppose deception", maybe we'll be attacked by aliens for promoting deception?

 

[TinMan]

Actually, a failure to diagnose an illness because you don't believe in it, that's doing harm by ommission.

Men who believe they are women, for instance, are suffering from a delusion and should be treated.

There are those who say that people who believe they talk to God are delusional. Are they?

Of course, there's a lot more to it than that. Sexual identity issues have deep and complex roots some times. Sometimes it's more like sexual fetish. People want justification - I was born this way!

And all evidence says they were. More accurately the people wanting justification are those who deny the evidence and call people who are different diseased thinking that prejudice is justified if the target of that prejudice is called mentally ill.

Telling the heroin addict that they actually have a natural heroin deficiency, and they should be injecting daily, isn't helping them. Calling them a minority that should be protected from anyone trying to help them become drug free isn't helping either.

Much love!

Comparing a minority to substance abusers again shows that last thing on your mind is love.

 

[marks]

Comparing a minority to substance abusers again shows that last thing on your mind is love.

Unless the comparison is appropriate, which it is.

OK, I've said what I've wanted to.

Much love!

 

[BlessedPeace]

A Christian baker who doesn’t approve of gender bending was sued for refusing to bake a gender transition cake. You can read the scoop here: Christian baker sued for refusing gender-transition cake says Supreme Court ruling puts law on his side

Honestly, I don’t have a problem with transgender people who want to switch their gender. Yeah, it’s a bit strange, but like they always say: To each their own.

I do draw the line at elementary schools trying to convince six-year-olds to do a gender transition. Anyone who wants to change their gender should be at least 18 years of age before making such a life-altering decision.

But what about Christian bakers who don’t want to bake a cake for gender benders who wish to celebrate their transition? Do you think they should be forced to do it, since they have a paying customer? Or do they have a right to refuse service based on preference? Let me know what you think.

I remember a while ago Baker Phillips made news for refusing to bake a rainbow styled cake for the birthday party of a child. The little girl loved rainbows. Baker Phillips thought her mom was running a ruse to get him to create a cake for gays.

I think we are in great trouble when we believe we are able to judge customers in such a way, and refuse service.

We are not the morals police. And bigotry is a horrible testimony to lay on the doctrine of Christ, imo.

If we refused service to every sinner, and everyone was able to reciprocate in the name of their faith, where would we be?

 

[JohnDB]

I have a slightly different take on these situation. Baking a cake for someone does not mean that you are conveying that you agree with a life style or choice. Would the baker bake a cake for someone getting divorced or getting remarried ( if they were christian) The bakery is a business and it’s there To provide for the customers. It’s basically saying I will provide you with what I sell if you prove that you are living the way I think is right…..if your not then I am going to have a tantrum and refuse.
Sorry, I know many here will disagree.
It’s like me refusing to go and clean a residents room if they are gay ect, or refusing to work with someone because of their life style ……

As a retired bakery owner....
Nope. Completely wrong.
I make and create art. My talents are a gift from God. I may have gone to school and practiced hundreds of thousands of hours but I still consider my gifts and talents as a gift from God.

As such I would rather die and rot away in prison before I'd make a homosexual wedding cake.
I refuse to make art that encourages people to harm themselves.

And considering that the courts have ruled with me on this....doubly so.

I reserve the right to refuse even basic service to anyone at anytime for any reason.

And if the customers don't like it they can go to any other bakery they wish....and I will wish them well to do so. But I also had a distinct and wonderful reputation with my baked goods. (Best exclairs in Middle TN) I understand that many will want to get one of my cakes...but there's the wailing and gnashing of teeth too.

We employed anyone and everyone wanting to learn and work. I didn't care about race, creed, color, ethnicity or male or female.
Even those who were politicians were served in my bakery. (I grumbled about having to let in the politicians...but whatever)

I draw the line where I draw it. I refused to even entertain the notion to make a homosexual wedding cake. (I didn't do any wedding cakes except my own) But I did do plenty of office birthday/celebration cakes.

So no...I cannot be forced into celebrating sin. I don't have to give up my rights as an individual just because I opened a bakery. I'm still allowed to freely pursue a relationship with God (worship) in the manner I see fit. (And we closed on Sundays too) I'm also allowed to count to 13 when selling a dozen cookies. My bakery...I count how I wanted to.

 

[TinMan]

Unless the comparison is appropriate, which it is.

OK, I've said what I've wanted to.

Much love!

its never appropriate its deceitful, and its hateful.

 

[TinMan]

As a retired bakery owner....
Nope. Completely wrong.
I make and create art. My talents are a gift from God. I may have gone to school and practiced hundreds of thousands of hours but I still consider my gifts and talents as a gift from God.

As such I would rather die and rot away in prison before I'd make a homosexual wedding cake.
I refuse to make art that encourages people to harm themselves.

And considering that the courts have ruled with me on this....doubly so.

do you refuse to serve smokers?
do you make your customers stand on a scale to prevent you serving any one overweight?
Demand an A1C so you don't serve a diabetic?
get a read out from the DMV so you don't accidentally make a cake for someone who speeds?

Or is it just about people you choose to hate?

I reserve the right to refuse even basic service to anyone at anytime for any reason.

no you don't.

And if the customers don't like it they can go to any other bakery they wish....and I will wish them well to do so. But I also had a distinct and wonderful reputation with my baked goods. (Best exclairs in Middle TN) I understand that many will want to get one of my cakes...but there's the wailing and gnashing of teeth too.

because black people can go somewhere else

 

[Rita]

As a retired bakery owner....
Nope. Completely wrong.
I make and create art. My talents are a gift from God. I may have gone to school and practiced hundreds of thousands of hours but I still consider my gifts and talents as a gift from God.

As such I would rather die and rot away in prison before I'd make a homosexual wedding cake.
I refuse to make art that encourages people to harm themselves.

And considering that the courts have ruled with me on this....doubly so.

I reserve the right to refuse even basic service to anyone at anytime for any reason.

And if the customers don't like it they can go to any other bakery they wish....and I will wish them well to do so. But I also had a distinct and wonderful reputation with my baked goods. (Best exclairs in Middle TN) I understand that many will want to get one of my cakes...but there's the wailing and gnashing of teeth too.

We employed anyone and everyone wanting to learn and work. I didn't care about race, creed, color, ethnicity or male or female.
Even those who were politicians were served in my bakery. (I grumbled about having to let in the politicians...but whatever)

I draw the line where I draw it. I refused to even entertain the notion to make a homosexual wedding cake. (I didn't do any wedding cakes except my own) But I did do plenty of office birthday/celebration cakes.

So no...I cannot be forced into celebrating sin. I don't have to give up my rights as an individual just because I opened a bakery. I'm still allowed to freely pursue a relationship with God (worship) in the manner I see fit. (And we closed on Sundays too) I'm also allowed to count to 13 when selling a dozen cookies. My bakery...I count how I wanted to.

I gave my opinion , you have yours…..we are allowed to have different prospectives, it doesn’t make one persons view wrong and the other right.

 

[Taken]

It’s a conundrum ~

God established the divisions:
Liberty / Captive
Spirits / Humans / Animals
Light / Dark
Up / Down
With / Without
Male / Female
Marriage / Divorce
Like / (Strong dislike) ie. /Hate
Race - Israelites / Gentiles
Yoked / Separated
Favorable / Unfavorable
Acceptance / Rejection
Right / Wrong

God established discernment:
Judgement, Discrete, Discriminate.

God IS Love.
Love IS that which IS (according to Gods WAY)
IS Right, IS Favorable, IS Acceptable, IS Best FOR EVERY “thing” God Created.

God established FREEWILL.
ALL of Gods creations THAT WHICH God MADE alive WITH a SOUL, were/are created and made with LIBERTY/ FREEWILL/ Ability to CHOOSE.

It is MANKIND WHO:
Established Race (on Flesh color and Nation of natural Birth), Oppresses Liberty, Freewill, Judgement, Discernment, Discretion, Discrimination.

It is MANKIND WHO:
Established NEGATIVELY intended (words, name calling) … ie Hater, Bigot, Racist …
WHILE THEY THEMSELVES ARE STANDING IN OPPOSITION AGAINST THE ONE THEY ARE CALLING NEGATIVELY INTENDED NAMES!

Gods WAY is Love
Love is ALWAYS a Positive position, act, according to Gods WAY….not Mans Way.

Remember ~
LIBERTY ~ FREEWILL ~ FREEDOM is a God Given RIGHT to Humans For them to Individually CHOOSE “WHOM” they “WILL or WILL NOT SERVE”.

Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Remember ~
The “FOUNDERS” of America “Recognized and Established America” on Gods Standards and Principles EXCLUSIVELY THAT a CITIZEN of America’s LIBERTY “IS FROM GOD”….not men.

America’s Declaration:
In Congress, July 4, 1776

…

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…

The Conundrum ~

* ALL citizens of America fall Under the Umbrella OF BEING the Governed WHICH
THEY (the Governed CITIZENS), seat, by election, appointment, the Governors.

* ALL Governors DO NOT REPRESENT (by, through, of) ALL the CITIZENS, CHOICES.
* Not a big secret, Governors REPRESENT the CHOICES (of Lobbyists, Financial Donors, Personal gains efforts, Business Favors, Backroom underhanded dealings and promises, etc.)
* Not a big secret, Historical American (Governors/ also Presidents, aka. Servants OF the Citizens)….WERE NOT BECOMING “overnight” MILLIONAIRES as a Servant OF its citizens. <—- > More so a rather MODERN means of CORRUPT seated Governors/Presidents, (aka the Citizens Servants) MAKE their underhanded backroom deals THAT WHICH transfers the People’s Wealth INTO THEIR POCKETS!!

* For me and my house we will SERVE the Lord.
* For me and my house we will, AS CITIZENS cast our VOTE for SEATING an Individual WHO Best Represents AND Protects the LIBERTY of ALL its CITIZENS to FREELY CHOOSE whom THEY WILL SERVE.

God Himself FORCES NO MAN to SERVE Him
When MEN dictate, demand, force ONE man to SERVE another man, they HAVE crossed the LINE, “making themselves a god”.

Make no Mistake…
there IS a LINE, God established a DIVISION.
WITH or WITHOUT Him, in ALL MATTERS.

* Man FORCING a Godly man to (any way, shape, or form) participate IN CELEBRATING another mans anti-God Choices … IS CORRUPT …
* AND NOT a mystery of Scriptural Teaching, sign of the times, these last days, such things would become manifested and world wide spread.
* Doesn’t CHANGE one iota … individuals have Freewill to yield, cower to man, OR Stand With God and His established Principles and Way in ALL matters.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JohnDB]

I gave my opinion , you have yours…..we are allowed to have different prospectives, it doesn’t make one persons view wrong and the other right.

As "the baker" it actually does.
I'm the one baking the cake or not. I'm a primadonna, not a drama queen. I make what I want when I wish to...according to the schedule I made out. I'm the baker. I own the bakery.

I'm not making that cake....and the court said the same thing.

Passion is a huge part of artistic expression.
And my passion is diametrically opposed to making such things. I refuse to make a cake celebrating perversion and moral turpitude.

You can make them a cake....I am not.
You can make a "Happy Suicide" cake too...I am not. Maybe a "Good luck on your school shooting" cake would be your forte...not mine.

It's not why I bake or started my bakery. I pour my heart into every item I bake and create. From tarts to cheesecakes and even cookies. (It wasn't for the money) One of the cookies I created had my wife's name on it. It was created because of her. I am gifted by God with my talents...I do not throw pearls before swine.

I am willing to play a lot of requests...but that doesn't mean that I can be forced into promoting such disgusting behavior.

I bake because God gifted these talents to me. I make luxury foods that people enjoy. From loaves of bread to eclairs and Danish.
It's a violation of my rights to force me to promote something I find offensive.
How people think that I don't have rights because I own a business is the dumbest concept yet. I was never going to get rich by being a bakery owner...I barely eeked out a living. It was more about expressing my passion for great food and etc....

 

[JohnDB]

do you refuse to serve smokers?
do you make your customers stand on a scale to prevent you serving any one overweight?
Demand an A1C so you don't serve a diabetic?
get a read out from the DMV so you don't accidentally make a cake for someone who speeds?

Or is it just about people you choose to hate?


no you don't.

because black people can go somewhere else

You have a LOT of misconceptions.
Believe it or not we really didn't ever have a lot of heavy set people in my shop.
Mostly it was skinny people from surrounding offices.

When operating a bakery or whatever foodservice these days "everyone" is on a diet of some form. So the food/desserts especially need to be "worth the calories" .

IOW mindless sugar and sticky sweet with little flavor isn't going to work. It works for highly decorated junk like Cake Boss stuff...but that's not mine. Mine is all about the quality of what you put in your mouth. All scratch bakery. No mixes or frozen prepared anything. Everything was made from scratch. Flours, eggs, butter and cream were always our biggest purchases every week.

And I'm not judging anyone anywhere at anytime. I judge myself....but I'm allowed.

I am not going to use my artistic talents to promote disgusting behavior. A "Happy Genocide" cake is not on my "to do" list.

My bakery....I draw the line where I want...just like you do. You have a line you do not cross with your morality. It bears little resemblance to mine...but you don't hear me telling you why yours is wrong. (Except in your imagination)

And as a result....I'm not using my God-given talents of art to bake a homosexual wedding cake.

 

[Rita]

As "the baker" it actually does.
I'm the one baking the cake or not. I'm a primadonna, not a drama queen. I make what I want when I wish to...according to the schedule I made out. I'm the baker. I own the bakery.

I'm not making that cake....and the court said the same thing.

Passion is a huge part of artistic expression.
And my passion is diametrically opposed to making such things. I refuse to make a cake celebrating perversion and moral turpitude.

You can make them a cake....I am not.
You can make a "Happy Suicide" cake too...I am not. Maybe a "Good luck on your school shooting" cake would be your forte...not mine.

It's not why I bake or started my bakery. I pour my heart into every item I bake and create. From tarts to cheesecakes and even cookies. (It wasn't for the money) One of the cookies I created had my wife's name on it. It was created because of her. I am gifted by God with my talents...I do not throw pearls before swine.

I am willing to play a lot of requests...but that doesn't mean that I can be forced into promoting such disgusting behavior.

I bake because God gifted these talents to me. I make luxury foods that people enjoy. From loaves of bread to eclairs and Danish.
It's a violation of my rights to force me to promote something I find offensive.
How people think that I don't have rights because I own a business is the dumbest concept yet. I was never going to get rich by being a bakery owner...I barely eeked out a living. It was more about expressing my passion for great food and etc....

I haven’t disputed your opinion, as a baker you can make that choice. It doesn’t however mean that every one else will make the same choice or is wrong if they have a different prospective. We are actually all entitled to make choices, you explained why you would make your choice. However you started your earlier post quoting my post and stating it was wrong.

 

[JohnDB]

I haven’t disputed your opinion, as a baker you can make that choice. It doesn’t however mean that every one else will make the same choice or is wrong if they have a different prospective. We are actually all entitled to make choices, you explained why you would make your choice. However you started your earlier post quoting my post and stating it was wrong.

Yes....my bakery means my rules.
Customers are not allowed to tell me when to open or close. They don't create my menu. They don't tell me how to pick the color of my tables and chairs or even the walls.

Just because other bakeries might do such things doesn't mean that I have to.

You can't force a McDonald's to offer T-Bone steaks on their menu. Why should I be forced to make something? Is that not a violation of my rights?

 

[marks]

its never appropriate its deceitful, and its hateful.

Do you consider it hateful to try to treat a cancer sufferer?

Much love!

 

[TinMan]

You have a LOT of misconceptions.
Believe it or not we really didn't ever have a lot of heavy set people in my shop.
Mostly it was skinny people from surrounding offices.

When operating a bakery or whatever foodservice these days "everyone" is on a diet of some form. So the food/desserts especially need to be "worth the calories" .

IOW mindless sugar and sticky sweet with little flavor isn't going to work. It works for highly decorated junk like Cake Boss stuff...but that's not mine. Mine is all about the quality of what you put in your mouth. All scratch bakery. No mixes or frozen prepared anything. Everything was made from scratch. Flours, eggs, butter and cream were always our biggest purchases every week.

And I'm not judging anyone anywhere at anytime. I judge myself....but I'm allowed.

I am not going to use my artistic talents to promote disgusting behavior. A "Happy Genocide" cake is not on my "to do" list.

My bakery....I draw the line where I want...just like you do. You have a line you do not cross with your morality. It bears little resemblance to mine...but you don't hear me telling you why yours is wrong. (Except in your imagination)

And as a result....I'm not using my God-given talents of art to bake a homosexual wedding cake.

What about your own disgusting behavior?