Christianity as a Closed System

[Lambano]

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

There is a sense in which we are called to be a closed system, to be separate from the world:

For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. - Deuteronomy 7:6

Apparently, that calling hasn't been revoked:

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. - 2 Peter 2:9

And boy, are we peculiar.

 

[Lambano]

And then there is the very PURPOSE for which God called and still calls His people, which is to be an open system. We are here for THEM:

He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob
And to restore the protected ones of Israel;
I will also make You a light of the nations,
So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.” - Isaiah 49:6

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Your light must shine before people in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 5:14

These two dynamics conflict with each other, but they must remain in tension for us to be what we're called to be.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Which one are you in the story of the Prodigal?

I suppose we all know the story of the Prodigal. (Luke 15:11-32) But the characters can be representative of those in (and out) of the church. - The son that squandered his inheritance in riotous living. - The father that took him back unconditionally. - The older brother that complained...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Hey You!]

This is an extension of a previous topic.

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time,
you could "shake the dust off your feet" and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

Kind of sounds like thinking inside the box...

Proof in a Box! ~ by ReverendRV * August 18

Mark 16:14 NIV; Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

On an open Forum an Atheist asked this question; ‘Suppose you were given a box and told that within it contains ironclad proof for the existence of God; would you open it?’. The overwhelming answer given by the Atheists was a resounding ‘YES’, jumping at that chance if it were to present itself. Some Christians answered by saying ‘No’; but I answered ‘Yes’. ~ I told them that the Bible is the Box they are looking for. Many people would reject this idea and say that they have already opened that box and found it to be empty. But I wondered that if they had opened the Bible with the same zeal they expressed about the supposed Box, maybe they would have had a different result and spotted some proof? History has shown us that some great Minds have set out to refute the Bible, opening it and expecting to find nothing; but seeing the proof they didn’t expect. ~ C. S. Lewis, Lee Strobel, Simon Greenleaf and Josh McDowell are but a few notable names of such people; research them and see how a genuine search can make a difference; do a little homework…

When you open the Bible and find it’s empty, close it back up and use the key of hopeful expectations, the zeal which was expressed by the respondents on that Forum; and try again. One of the best proofs you will find in the Box are the Dead Sea Scrolls. These copies of the Bible are the oldest that we have, in some cases predating the New Testament by 50-200 years. This shows the faithful transcribing of the Scriptures, since they are nearly a perfect match to what we have in our Bibles today. Since there are two complete copies of the Book of Isaiah within them, we can see that the Prophecies of a coming Messiah were not rewritten to picture Jesus; they picture Christ on their own. Even though this is the case, people still find ways to reject the point; but this rejection is not done in the spirit of those who gleefully wanted to open a Box of Proof. ~ A one page Gospel Tract will fall short of putting all Proofs on display. But even with a hundred Proofs, the Just shall live by Faith. We’re not Omniscient so we can’t be ‘a know it all’; but just know that Faith isn’t blind…

All have fallen short of the Glory of God; this is called Sin. All have Lied, Stolen, Hated and Lusted; thou shall not Covet! These are only a few of God’s Ten Commandments but the bad news is that when you’ve broken one of them, you are guilty of breaking all of them as if they were one Law. If God judged you by this, would you be innocent or guilty? Guilty Sinners are cast into God’s hellish Jail for all eternity. ~ But God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son to take the punishment for our Sin; the Just for the Unjust. Jesus died on a cross and shed his blood; he paid for our crime with his Life. But after being buried for three days he arose from the dead and was seen alive by 500 people. We are Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus as our Lord and Savior, apart from trying to earn Eternal Life. Confess Jesus as Lord, Repent of your Sins, find a Bible believing Church; and keep opening the Bible. ~ Turn it's crank and it will be like music to your ears; and proof will leap out of it like a Jack in the Box. Don’t be found remaining in a stubborn refusal to believe…

Acts 1:3 KJV; To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:


Why do you want us to think outside the box?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is an extension of a previous topic.

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time,
you could "shake the dust off your feet" and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

It is sad you grew up in such a formalistic style of Christianity.

The Samaritan woman at the well in John 4 was an evangelist and her relationship with Jesus was about 1 hour long!

 

[St. SteVen]

It is sad you grew up in such a formalistic style of Christianity.
The Samaritan woman at the well in John 4 was an evangelist and her relationship with Jesus was about 1 hour long!

Yes. I consider myself to be a recovering evangelical. (not evangelist)

Most every style of Christianity is "formalistic". Why do you label evangelicalism?
(and there certainly are other choices that are far more formalistic)

[

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes. I consider myself to be a recovering evangelical. (not evangelist)

Most every style of Christianity is "formalistic". Why do you label evangelicalism?
(and there certainly are other choices that are far more formalistic)

[

Simply because that is what you said you grew up in and it sounds very formalistic.

I am glad in my 50+ years I have gone to churches that strived hard to be biblical and not attached to formulas and forms. I am currently in an SBC church and it is awesome! We believe in evangelism. While we will teach some methods to help a believer get rolling, we believe in getting to know the Lord, learn His Word and let the Spirit lead you to share the good news with the lost.

 

[St. SteVen]

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time, you could
"shake the dust off your feet" (as a curse upon them) and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

 

[Jack]

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time, you could
"shake the dust off your feet" (as a curse upon them) and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

You should have stuck with the Bible, the Word of God!

 

[David in NJ]

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time, you could
"shake the dust off your feet" (as a curse upon them) and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".

Simple FIX = when you share the Gospel just talk with those who are 'out of the Way' = rely on the Holy Spirit and the Word and the person(s) you are speaking with!!!

@St.Steven, keep this in you rmind & heart = Heaven is a CLOSED SYSTEM = No one get's into God's House without His Invitation that was Hand Delivered and Signed in His Blood

 

[St. SteVen]

Heaven is a CLOSED SYSTEM = No one get's into God's House without His Invitation that was Hand Delivered and Signed in His Blood

I thought the gates to the city were always open. ???

[

 

[David in NJ]

I thought the gates to the city were always open. ???

[

JESUS is the Door/Gate that opens for all whom the FATHER calls = John ch10

Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door.
If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved,

 

[Lambano]

That's interesting. Could you unwrap that?
How do identity and open/closed systems work with, or against each other?

What boundary markers define who is part of Jesus's people and who is not? Who is "Us" and who are "Them"?

(I should've answered this way in the first place.)

 

[Behold]

I thought the gates to the city were always open. ???

[

Heaven is open to everyone who will believe in Christ before they die, and are born again.

The Cross of Christ is the only Gate, and there is no other Way to enter Heaven.... John 14:6

 

[Aunty Jane]

What boundary markers define who is part of Jesus's people and who is not? Who is "Us" and who are "Them"?

(I should've answered this way in the first place.)

And an extension of that question is ‘who is making the definition.....and why is Christianity so splintered in the first place’?
Jesus taught one truth, so it wasn’t him who caused the disintegration. It was humans, under influence from God’s arch enemy who led men (willing dupes) in a multitude of different directions, creating a pile of broken glass that hides the real diamond.

Jesus gave us the parable of the “wheat and the weeds” to show us who is behind the clever counterfeit that now masquerades as the genuine article.

He told his audience.....Matt 13:24-30...
“The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. 25  While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. 26  When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. 27  So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ 28  He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29  He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. 30  Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’”

He went on to identify the players in this illustration...Matt 13:36-43...
“The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38  the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39  and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40  Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 42  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. 43  At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen.”

How do we find the “wheat” in among the “weeds”? We actually don’t....God sends his servants out to search for the “lost sheep” and he is the one who invites them into his family. (John 6:44; 65)

That family are not lost in Christendom’s multitude of denominations, but are completely separate in this “time of the end”, having nothing in common with the counterfeit “Christianity” that the devil created and that is now accepted in all its factions as somehow authentic.....when it never was.

This is the harvest season where the weeds will all together be collected by the reapers, and disposed of as useless counterfeits.

There is a fixation with “going to heaven” that leads most professed Christians to believe that this is their destiny, whilst losing sight of why God put us here on planet Earth in the first place.

If we understand why we are here, and what our purpose is in being created as mortal creatures of flesh, on a small and insignificant planet in a vast Universe, then all the pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place.

In a nutshell....God chose to create sentient creatures of intelligence as his children in another realm. He already had a large family of spirit sons in heaven, (which is a realm hidden from us earth bound mortals) so material creation was a new avenue for God to express his creativity and his boundless love.....one that he enjoyed creating in the presence of those heavenly sons who “shouted for joy” when the project was completed. (Job 38:7)

When we read the Genesis account carefully and imagine as we do, the purpose of our existence and why there was a derailment, it explains why God dealt with that train wreck, the way he did.

Instead of eliminating the enemy who caused the problem, he allowed him time to prove his worthiness as a deity, (he was the one who wanted to “be like God”) thereby showing the humans why it was a mistake to listen to someone who promises the world and then delivers something no one wants.

The remedy for all man’s woes was the the Kingdom of God, which Christendom’s churches find difficult to explain. But again, a careful reading of the Lord’s Prayer, answers that question.

How many people have prayed that prayer by rote in church or at other times, without really understanding what Jesus taught us to pray for?

When he said...”thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”....have we never asked what is this “kingdom”? ......and “how” does it “come” so that God’s will is done “on earth as it is in heaven”.

The “kingdom” is something that Christians, (who are chosen for a specific role in heaven), will go to in order to rule over the redeemed human race on earth. The “chosen ones” or “elect” as the name suggests, are not just random Christians who go to heaven as a matter of course, but are selected specifically for that assignment....these alone will go to heaven to make up the “government” that was to be “on the shoulders” of “the Prince of Peace”. (Isa 9:6) These will be “kings and priests” whose services will enable redeemed mankind to come back to God in reconciliation, (Rev 20:6) to continue the purpose for which they were created....”to fill the earth and subdue it”. Think about what that meant back in Eden.

After a massive culling of wicked humanity, much like what happened in Noah’s day, (Matt 24:37-39) though not by a flood this time, the redeemed ones, including those who will come back to life in the resurrection, will make up the entire population of the earth, and will enter 1000 years of preparation, restoration, education and rebuilding.....returning the earth to its original paradise conditions and establishing God’s rule earth wide...so that God’s will is “done on earth as it is in heaven”.

The earth was not created for nothing, and was never designed as a training ground for heaven.....God’s plans for his Universe are not yet revealed....so eternity is a blank canvas to us at present......but it will have no impediments from any who wish to step outside of the “box” that God put us in......not a box we can ever escape.....or will ever want to.

We have a wonderful future to look forward to after the dust settles in the days to come, when a tribulation that has never been seen before in this world, will show us all who we really are in God’s eyes, rather than our own. (Matt 24:21-22) Armageddon will then destroy all who fail to measure up....those who want to make God into their own image, or who think that salvation cannot be lost. You cannot lose what you never had....and no excuses will be accepted. (Matt 7:21-23)

The reapers are ready, so.....are we?
The door is still open, but not for much longer.

 

[Jack]

And an extension of that question is ‘who is making the definition.....and why is Christianity so splintered in the first place’?
Jesus taught one truth, so it wasn’t him who caused the disintegration. It was humans, under influence from God’s arch enemy who led men (willing dupes) in a multitude of different directions, creating a pile of broken glass that hides the real diamond.

Jesus gave us the parable of the “wheat and the weeds” to show us who is behind the clever counterfeit that now masquerades as the genuine article.

He told his audience.....Matt 13:24-30...
“The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. 25  While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. 26  When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. 27  So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ 28  He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29  He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. 30  Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’”

He went on to identify the players in this illustration...Matt 13:36-43...
“The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38  the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39  and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40  Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 42  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. 43  At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen.”

How do we find the “wheat” in among the “weeds”? We actually don’t....God sends his servants out to search for the “lost sheep” and he is the one who invites them into his family. (John 6:44; 65)

That family are not lost in Christendom’s multitude of denominations, but are completely separate in this “time of the end”, having nothing in common with the counterfeit “Christianity” that the devil created and that is now accepted in all its factions as somehow authentic.....when it never was.

This is the harvest season where the weeds will all together be collected by the reapers, and disposed of as useless counterfeits.

There is a fixation with “going to heaven” that leads most professed Christians to believe that this is their destiny, whilst losing sight of why God put us here on planet Earth in the first place.

If we understand why we are here, and what our purpose is in being created as mortal creatures of flesh, on a small and insignificant planet in a vast Universe, then all the pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place.

In a nutshell....God chose to create sentient creatures of intelligence as his children in another realm. He already had a large family of spirit sons in heaven, (which is a realm hidden from us earth bound mortals) so material creation was a new avenue for God to express his creativity and his boundless love.....one that he enjoyed creating in the presence of those heavenly sons who “shouted for joy” when the project was completed. (Job 38:7)

When we read the Genesis account carefully and imagine as we do, the purpose of our existence and why there was a derailment, it explains why God dealt with that train wreck, the way he did.

Instead of eliminating the enemy who caused the problem, he allowed him time to prove his worthiness as a deity, (he was the one who wanted to “be like God”) thereby showing the humans why it was a mistake to listen to someone who promises the world and then delivers something no one wants.

The remedy for all man’s woes was the the Kingdom of God, which Christendom’s churches find difficult to explain. But again, a careful reading of the Lord’s Prayer, answers that question.

How many people have prayed that prayer by rote in church or at other times, without really understanding what Jesus taught us to pray for?

When he said...”thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”....have we never asked what is this “kingdom”? ......and “how” does it “come” so that God’s will is done “on earth as it is in heaven”.

The “kingdom” is something that Christians, (who are chosen for a specific role in heaven), will go to in order to rule over the redeemed human race on earth. The “chosen ones” or “elect” as the name suggests, are not just random Christians who go to heaven as a matter of course, but are selected specifically for that assignment....these alone will go to heaven to make up the “government” that was to be “on the shoulders” of “the Prince of Peace”. (Isa 9:6) These will be “kings and priests” whose services will enable redeemed mankind to come back to God in reconciliation, (Rev 20:6) to continue the purpose for which they were created....”to fill the earth and subdue it”. Think about what that meant back in Eden.

After a massive culling of wicked humanity, much like what happened in Noah’s day, (Matt 24:37-39) though not by a flood this time, the redeemed ones, including those who will come back to life in the resurrection, will make up the entire population of the earth, and will enter 1000 years of preparation, restoration, education and rebuilding.....returning the earth to its original paradise conditions and establishing God’s rule earth wide...so that God’s will is “done on earth as it is in heaven”.

The earth was not created for nothing, and was never designed as a training ground for heaven.....God’s plans for his Universe are not yet revealed....so eternity is a blank canvas to us at present......but it will have no impediments from any who wish to step outside of the “box” that God put us in......not a box we can ever escape.....or will ever want to.

We have a wonderful future to look forward to after the dust settles in the days to come, when a tribulation that has never been seen before in this world, will show us all who we really are in God’s eyes, rather than our own. (Matt 24:21-22) Armageddon will then destroy all who fail to measure up....those who want to make God into their own image, or who think that salvation cannot be lost. You cannot lose what you never had....and no excuses will be accepted. (Matt 7:21-23)

The reapers are ready, so.....are we?
The door is still open, but not for much longer.

GB smokescreen! That's what JW's do to avoid the Bible!

 

[quietthinker]

This is an extension of a previous topic.

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time,
you could "shake the dust off your feet" and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

It is possible to find fault infinitum; our default relishes it .....but to what end? Will we ever draw one person to the Saviour by finding fault.
I'm reminded of 1 Corinthians 13:5 ....'love holds no record of wrongs' Man! that ought to blow the socks off all of us.

 

[Jack]

It is possible to find fault infinitum; our default relishes it .....but to what end? Will we ever draw one person to the Saviour by finding fault.
I'm reminded of 1 Corinthians 13:5 ....'love holds no record of wrongs' Man! that ought to blow the socks off all of us.

The "Saviour", Jesus the Creator of all things, Whom you attacked? You think He doesn't remember what you said about Him? He does. He remembers everything you said about Him!

 

[St. SteVen]

It is possible to find fault infinitum; our default relishes it .....but to what end? Will we ever draw one person to the Saviour by finding fault.
I'm reminded of 1 Corinthians 13:5 ....'love holds no record of wrongs' Man! that ought to blow the socks off all of us.

Yes. That's a good word.
I criticize plenty, but I was there on Sunday.

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[quietthinker]

The "Saviour", Jesus the Creator of all things, Whom you attacked? You think He doesn't remember what you said about Him? He does. He remembers everything you said about Him!

Delusion will consume you Jack. At least have the courage to be honest with yourself!