Christianity requires fear, guilt, and conformity

[QuantumBit]

If I understand the OP correctly, God wishes for us to be 'controlled'.

The opposite is to be 'out of control'.

Thus, OP is advocating for chaos, in other words, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

 

[I.O.U]

If I understand the OP correctly, God wishes for us to be 'controlled'.

The opposite is to be 'out of control'.

Thus, OP is advocating for chaos, in other words, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

Hi @QuantumBit check this out:


One of Aleister Crowley's works in occultism. Look at the snapshot below.


I thought I recognised that saying (Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law)

 

[Lapidem]

God is not bound by human logic nor constrained by time. You do not live by faith in God so you miss my point...

So you really do think Jesus was an actual tree in the garden of Eden then!

Or perhaps you believe there are different things that have the allegorical name "Tree Of Life"

 

[Lapidem]

I had a personal encounter with God when I was a child. He made himself real to me through various miraculous events.

Did he actually speak to you? If so did he say "Hello, my name is god"?

 

[amadeus]

So you really do think Jesus was an actual tree in the garden of Eden then!

Or perhaps you believe there are different things that have the allegorical name "Tree Of Life"

You seem to be interested in being right and/or winning an argument rather than in encountering the Truth.

The Way to the Truth, God's Truth, I believe, is encountered through the Holy Spirit as a person follows the lead of the Holy Spirit. You apparently have no interest in traveling that Way. If you should change your mind, I or others here might be willing to help you as God leads us. Failing that I believe we are finished here. I know what is in my heart and why.

My first encounter with God occurred more than 70 years ago. I won't detail my own testimony here for you to nit pick at it. Only God, not me, gives real increases.

 

[Lapidem]

You seem to be interested in being right and/or winning an argument rather than in encountering the Truth.

The Way to the Truth, God's Truth, I believe, is encountered through the Holy Spirit as a person follows the lead of the Holy Spirit. You apparently have no interest in traveling that Way. If you should change your mind, I or others here might be willing to help you as God leads us. Failing that I believe we are finished here. I know what is in my heart and why.

My first encounter with God occurred more than 70 years ago. I won't detail my own testimony here for you to nit pick at it. Only God, not me, gives real increases.

Sorry but what does all that waffle have to do with your statement that you believe "Jesus is the 'Tree Of Life'"?
This isn't about winning arguments. We were talking about your statement. If you're taking the bible literally, then how can Jesus be the Tree Of Life as mentioned in Genesis?

FWIW I also believe Jesus is the Tree Of Life but on the basis that both are just allegorical names used for the same thing which is the Stone/Elixir Of Life. If you read the works of the philosophers I listed for you, you soon come to see that they very frequently used multiple names for things and also used single names for different meanings and things. Part of their way of confusing unwary readers and protecting the secrets. For example the term Mercury has many different meanings in those 100s of works, so does the word "fire", it can be a wide variety of different levels of heat and other things besides. I find that the Bible is no different. There are times that it refers to Jesus or Christ when very clearly (to me) it is actually referring to the Stone or Elixir or Tree Of Life.

 

[Gospel Believer]

How many people would be Christian if Hell wasn’t a concept in Christianity? Now I know many Christians would argue, “Hell is a consequence, it’s like having consequences in day to day life.” And this is where I disagree: while consequences are real in the world, it is a much different matter when it comes to the spiritual world.

Christians don’t like it when their god or concept of hell gets mocked because they want it to be taken seriously by others. They want others to feel guilty and in need of forgiveness the way they do. They claim that the solution to all of this is that in return one is “saved” once they repent and accept Jesus as their savior. And here is the kicker: EVEN when Christians repent and accept Jesus as their savior, many are STILL afraid of hell because they don’t know if they have been doing the right thing all along. They know that the possibility of merely “thinking” they are saved exists. To arrogantly proclaim that one is “saved”, can also be arrogantly dismissed.

However, Christians may argue that it is possible to know God exists through personal experience. But this starts to delve into mysticism which many Christians say goes against the Biblical authority. Simply experiencing God is not enough, one has to mentally know that God exists through biblical authority…so that gets rid of the personal experience argument.

This need for Christians to preach the gospel, is seen as “spreading the truth” in their eyes. It doesn’t matter to them if others say it’s bigoted or hateful or even if they get persecuted for it. They know that they are living in a time where they are becoming a minority in society since society has widely accepted views that are unbiblical and “demonic” in their eyes. They see it as if society needs people like them to warn them of hell, in hopes of waking society “up”. The problem for them is that the opposite has been happening.

One example I hear from Christians regarding their spreading of the gospel is their gripe with the “love is love” mentality of society. Christians think this has gone too far because “not all forms of love are right since one can love the wrong object”, such as a man loving another man. But how do we know that Christians themselves haven’t gone too far with spreading the gospel? Because here’s the thing: other religions do horrific things disguised as “doing the right thing”. Take the jihadist suicide bombers, for example. To them it’s no more a religious act like it is for a Christian to go out into the street with a picket sign saying that all homosexuals will burn in hell. Some may say this is a false equivalence, but is it? There are consequences for hate speech in society, as well as verbal threats already. They know they’re facing an uphill battle and I don’t see “being in the minority” necessarily as a virtue, either.

Since Christians want to hold that hell is real and everyone should feel guilty enough to repent, then the mockery of their hell should continue going on. Just like Christians believe we need to continue hearing about how we will burn in hell if we don’t repent, maybe they need to continue hearing about how their faith is all about guilt and conformity. Hell will continue being a reality to them, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be a reality for everyone else.

The framework of Christianity boils down to this: anyone who disagrees or rebels against their god or Bible, is satanic.
Those who disagree with us/the Bible=bad guys
Those who agree with us=good guys

“ The Gospel is Foolishness to those that perish”....... sorry about your bad luck....

 

[Lapidem]

“ The Gospel is Foolishness to those that perish”....... sorry about your bad luck....

Unless you eat and drink the things that Jesus told you to, you have no life in you. You will perish.

 

[amadeus]

Sorry but what does all that waffle have to do with your statement that you believe "Jesus is the 'Tree Of Life'"?
This isn't about winning arguments. We were talking about your statement. If you're taking the bible literally, then how can Jesus be the Tree Of Life as mentioned in Genesis?

FWIW I also believe Jesus is the Tree Of Life but on the basis that both are just allegorical names used for the same thing which is the Stone/Elixir Of Life. If you read the works of the philosophers I listed for you, you soon come to see that they very frequently used multiple names for things and also used single names for different meanings and things. Part of their way of confusing unwary readers and protecting the secrets. For example the term Mercury has many different meanings in those 100s of works, so does the word "fire", it can be a wide variety of different levels of heat and other things besides. I find that the Bible is no different. There are times that it refers to Jesus or Christ when very clearly (to me) it is actually referring to the Stone or Elixir or Tree Of Life.

1co 1:25	Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1co 1:26	For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1co 1:27	But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1co 1:28	And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1co 1:29	That no flesh should glory in his presence

 

[Gospel Believer]

Unless you eat and drink the things that Jesus told you to, you have no life in you. You will perish.

Interesting....would love to see your chapter and verse

 

[Gottservant]

How many people would be Christian if Hell wasn’t a concept in Christianity?
[...]
They want others to feel guilty and in need of forgiveness the way they do.

You are saying we all have the same sin, that's not true!

 

[Lapidem]

Interesting....would love to see your chapter and verse

John 6:53
53 Then Yeshua said to them, “Yes, indeed! I tell you that unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves.

Jesus, as always, is allegorically taking about the Elixirs of Life (the White and Red elixirs of alchemy). He's not suggesting that we become cannibals and physically eat his flesh and drink his actual blood. The flesh is the white elixir, the blood is the red elixir.

 

[Romanov2488]

Strawman alert.

A question is not a strawman. Sounds more like you’re making that statement as a defense mechanism for being unable to answer the question.

How many people would be Christian if Hell wasn’t a concept in Christianity?

 

[Romanov2488]

Hello Romanov.

I reject your conclusion here that Christianity boils down to this. Are you interested in an actual rational conversation about the Faith? I would be willing, if we were to do so respectively and with the intent to at least consider each others statements..

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

How much more rational do you want to get? Perhaps you didn’t like how plainly and blunt I put it. Fundamentalist Christianity states that you are born a sinner, in need of forgiveness, so you must feel guilty enough to repent and accept Jesus. Because if you don’t, you are going straight to hell. And anyone who disagrees with this, can literally go to hell. They are against God’s authority, just like Satan. Therefore anyone who’s not Christian or an unbeliever, belongs in hell with Satan.

If you have an explanation that’s sugarcoated in some way, then I’m not interested. If your explanation runs contrary to what fundamentalist Christianity states, then I’m all ears.

 

[Stumpmaster]

A question is not a strawman. Sounds more like you’re making that statement as a defense mechanism for being unable to answer the question.

How many people would be Christian if Hell wasn’t a concept in Christianity?

It assumes that the concept of hell is the reason people become Christians, and asks a question to which a quantifiable answer is not possible. Not just strawman but empty rhetoric.

 

[Angelina]

Did he actually speak to you? If so did he say "Hello, my name is god"?

Yes he did speak to me. He called out my name and I heard it clearly. I said "who is this?" He said "You know who I am."

 

[Lambano]

It assumes that the concept of hell is the reason people become Christians, and asks a question to which a quantifiable answer is not possible. Not just strawman but empty rhetoric.

To be honest, fear of Hell really is ONE of the reasons people come to Christ. I was one of them, and my heart goes out to a certain broken brother (currently serving a lifetime ban from CB) who wrote that the ONLY reason anyone should come to Christ is fear of Hell. Being rather cynical, that's why the "fire-and-brimstone" sermon (and I've heard a few in my time) is still an existing genre. Because it works.

Except it doesn't work, not long-term. I would later find that fear-based "faith" isn't really faith, and when it broke down, I had to learn that "faith" means "trust".

 

[Lapidem]

Yes he did speak to me. He called out my name and I heard it clearly. I said "who is this?" He said "You know who I am."

So you chose to attribute that voice to god, being a concept/name that you had either already been indoctrinated with as a young child, or later on when you were taught about it.

 

[Angelina]

So you chose to attribute that voice to god, being a concept/name that you had either already been indoctrinated with as a young child, or later on when you were taught about it.

Not been indoctrinated with as a young child about God at that time...but I did know that I was hearing his voice. Not God the Father but God his Son.

 

[Lapidem]

Not been indoctrinated with as a young child about God at that time...but I did know that I was hearing his voice. Not God the Father but God his Son.

So where did you learn about the name God and the name Jesus and that Jesus was the Son of God? A typical child doesn't know those concepts unless another human has taught them.