Christians are not sinners

[1stCenturyLady]

Our hearts are very deceptive, when we rely and lean upon our own understanding rather than to the faithful slave, we are basically rejecting the arrangement of God and following our own religion maam.

Do I understand you to say that you do not believe 1 John 3:21? Of course it is about those who are born again as is the rest of 1 John 3, not about a devil worshiper relying on his own conscience.

 

[Taken]

Since you don't provide an example of Scripture making difference between partaking and 'fully' partaking, then I'll stick with there being no difference in Scripture between partaking in anything, whether it be of the divine nature of God or of the sins of the world:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

But, thanks for your time anyway.

I can not give you a Scriptural one-liner That reveals the difference between:
* Gods Spirit being WITH a Man...(and CAN Leave that man)
AND
* Gods Spirit being WITH-IN a man...(and can NEVER Leave that man)

* I have described the difference, given you Scriptural points. It requires a study. I can not study it for you nor understand it for you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Christians are not sinners
OP ^

* * Incomplete statement. * *
Converted IN Christ earthly men (ie. Born Again earthly men) ARE not sinners.
^ Their Bodily Sin And Soul Sin Against God has been Forgiven.
^ Their Flesh Body, has Spiritually died;
Crucified With Jesus.
^ Their Flesh Body, Washed, Cleansed, (in Jesus’ Blood); Set Apart (ie Sanctified); Sin Covered (with Christ’s Indwelling Light/ unseen, remembered no more), Freed From Sin, Can Sin NO More. (Can never again, Sin Against God, ie Not Believe in God, Ie Speak Against God, Doubt God).
Their Soul, Restored (Saved, Forever With God).
Justified;
...To live IN Jesus’ perfect Risen Body.
...To be called Perfected IN Christ.
...To be called IN Christ’s Church.
...To be called a saint.
...To be called a son of God.
...To be Not Appointed To Wrath.
...To be Risen IN a Holy Body.
...To be Rewarded For Works That Glorify God.
...To be Redeemed,
^ Their Soul, Restored (Saved, Forever With God).
...To one day SEE God as He is.
...To occupy Jesus’ Millennial Earthly Kingdom.
...To occupy Gods Forever Restored new heaven and new earth.
...To Live Forever.
...To Forever Be WITH God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Robert Gwin]

Do I understand you to say that you do not believe 1 John 3:21? Of course it is about those who are born again as is the rest of 1 John 3, not about a devil worshiper relying on his own conscience.

There is not a passage in the Bible that I do not believe maam. But there are likely many that I do not believe the same way you do. Most of the Greek passages are written to those who are born again Lady, and I see no reason to think that 1st John was any different. But I will say that just because it was written to them, that the other sheep are not under different regulations than they are. Jesus was the example for all of us to follow, and we are bound by the laws set forth through the rest of the New Testament as well whether of the little flock, or the great crowd.

 

[robert derrick]

You are reworking what I'm saying into something else. I've never said not possible, not once!


Since you outright reject the sincerity of my statements . . . what more is there to say? you have your ideas of me, and you prefer them apparently. So it goes.

Much love!

You are reworking what I'm saying into something else. I've never said not possible, not once!

Oh, you certainly have declared it is 'possible' for sure, just not in this life.

And just to be clear, I don't consider sinlessness to be something impossible for a man to be, only, I don't find that to be portrayed in the Bible as being something that will be a reality for anyone who yet lives in flesh.

You keep trying to pin this on me, and that isn't righteousness either.

It's 'pinned' on you, because it came from you.

It is only possible in theory to you. To you, it is only high unattainable idealism in this life:

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Like others of OSAS, you are foolishly waiting for God to magically appear and do for you, what He commands us to do for ourselves today, and not to wait for a tomorrow that never comes.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

 

[robert derrick]

Our hearts are very deceptive, when we rely and lean upon our own understanding rather than to the faithful slave, we are basically rejecting the arrangement of God and following our own religion maam.

Our hearts are very deceptive, when we rely and lean upon our own understanding.

Quoting Scripture of unredeemed sinners is not a good choice for describing redeemed saints.

Obedient saints of God are pure in heart and not leaning to their own understanding, but trusting int he Lord and believing His word only.

 

[robert derrick]

I can not give you a Scriptural one-liner That reveals the difference between:
* Gods Spirit being WITH a Man...(and CAN Leave that man)
AND
* Gods Spirit being WITH-IN a man...(and can NEVER Leave that man)

* I have described the difference, given you Scriptural points. It requires a study. I can not study it for you nor understand it for you.

Glory to God,
Taken

I can not give you a Scriptural one-liner That reveals the difference between.

Because there is no Scripture that says so.

* Gods Spirit being WITH a Man...(and CAN Leave that man) AND * Gods Spirit being WITH-IN a man...(and can NEVER Leave that man)

There certainly is difference in Scripture between God being with us and God being in us:

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And since there is no Scripture for partaking with vs 'fully' partaking in, then partaking is within only, which includes regurgitating after eating.

There is no tasting and spitting out the word of God, because when the word is heard, it is immediately buried in the heart, not just flying between the ears in one side and out the other:

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Buried in the heart is swallowing the word: partaking is eating, even as Scripture says.

* Gods Spirit being WITH-IN a man...(and can NEVER Leave that man)

God can do whatever, whenever He wants, which includes not continuing to dwell in the heart of the disobedient along with the lust of the world.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Sinners with hearts of lust have no Spirit of God dwelling within them, nor the seed of Christ buried deep within unto good fruit and righteousness of God.

* I have described the difference, given you Scriptural points. It requires a study. I can not study it for you nor understand it for you.

You have made Scriptural points about a difference in Scripture, that Scripture itself does not say, and so I don't accept it.

It requires a study. I can not study it for you nor understand it for you.

I don't try to study something I can't plainly understand from reading the Scripture as written.

The rule of rightly dividing the word of truth is to first rightly divide between what is written and what is not.

We must start with what is written to base any teaching of Scripture, so that we avoid teaching our own things that are not written as such.

If you want to teach there is a difference in Scripture between partaking and 'fully' partaking, then you must begin by quoting the Scripture that says so.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is not a passage in the Bible that I do not believe maam. But there are likely many that I do not believe the same way you do. Most of the Greek passages are written to those who are born again Lady, and I see no reason to think that 1st John was any different. But I will say that just because it was written to them, that the other sheep are not under different regulations than they are. Jesus was the example for all of us to follow, and we are bound by the laws set forth through the rest of the New Testament as well whether of the little flock, or the great crowd.

I agree. That is why Jesus died for the whole world, not just for those who accepted His free gift. I don't know if you agree with that; I know other denominations do not which is against what scripture says. You are not that way. I'm sorry, but if there was a reason why we seemed to not accept what scripture says and believes the scripture differently from each other, I can't remember.

 

[robert derrick]

Christians are not sinners
OP ^

* * Incomplete statement. * *
Converted IN Christ earthly men (ie. Born Again earthly men) ARE not sinners.
^ Their Bodily Sin And Soul Sin Against God has been Forgiven.
^ Their Flesh Body, has Spiritually died;
Crucified With Jesus.
^ Their Flesh Body, Washed, Cleansed, (in Jesus’ Blood); Set Apart (ie Sanctified); Sin Covered (with Christ’s Indwelling Light/ unseen, remembered no more), Freed From Sin, Can Sin NO More. (Can never again, Sin Against God, ie Not Believe in God, Ie Speak Against God, Doubt God).
Their Soul, Restored (Saved, Forever With God).
Justified;
...To live IN Jesus’ perfect Risen Body.
...To be called Perfected IN Christ.
...To be called IN Christ’s Church.
...To be called a saint.
...To be called a son of God.
...To be Not Appointed To Wrath.
...To be Risen IN a Holy Body.
...To be Rewarded For Works That Glorify God.
...To be Redeemed,
^ Their Soul, Restored (Saved, Forever With God).
...To one day SEE God as He is.
...To occupy Jesus’ Millennial Earthly Kingdom.
...To occupy Gods Forever Restored new heaven and new earth.
...To Live Forever.
...To Forever Be WITH God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Is this your version of having a dual nature?

The old man of sin is the physical body, and the heart of lust is body's blood pump?

Can never again, Sin Against God, ie Not Believe in God, Ie Speak Against God, Doubt God).

Can never sin again with the body? Or never again be judged for sins of the flesh?

You overlook the Scriptural definition of all sin: doing unrighteousness, disobeying God, transgressing His law and word.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Cannot do sin, do unrighteousness, transgress the law of God, disobey God's commandment.

 

[marks]

It's 'pinned' on you, because it came from you.

It is only possible in theory to you. To you, it is only high unattainable idealism in this life:

You truly do not know me, you obviously don't understand or accept what I'm telling you, and you keep parroting falsehoods. I don't know how else to say it.

It is only possible in theory to you. To you, it is only high unattainable idealism in this life:

Rather . . . listen carefully please . . . living sanctified is what we do when we are trusting in Jesus. It comes with the territory. As long as you have your reliance on Jesus' reconciliation to have rendered you righteous, really actually a righteous being, you will live that way.

Now does that sound to you that I'm saying living that way is impossible? Because it doesn't sound that way to me.

You've doubled-down on this erronous message so many times that maybe you feel like you can't back down now, but I assure you once the matter is settled you needn't be concerned, I'm not like that.

You say I just call this theory, but I know experientially this is attainable reality. Only, be it to you according to your faith. And according to God's renewal of your mind. Sometimes we are waiting for healing on some things. God has His ways, and they are not necessarily understood by us.

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

True. Christians are not sinners. We are saints!

Which should we desire to identify with? Is it considered holier than thou to be a saint?

Is it a lack of humility to be a saint?

Why not let God's Word be the judge?

A saint is to be set apart for God. Isn't that who we are at the core of things?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Our hearts are very deceptive, when we rely and lean upon our own understanding.

Quoting Scripture of unredeemed sinners is not a good choice for describing redeemed saints.

Obedient saints of God are pure in heart and not leaning to their own understanding, but trusting int he Lord and believing His word only.

I seriously doubt that any Bible penman will not be redeemed Rob, although some think Solomon might not be. I prefer to believe however that treasures in heaven cannot be taken away, and that God is not evil by forgetting what one has done for Him Mat 6:19,20; Heb 6:10

 

[Robert Gwin]

I agree. That is why Jesus died for the whole world, not just for those who accepted His free gift. I don't know if you agree with that; I know other denominations do not which is against what scripture says. You are not that way. I'm sorry, but if there was a reason why we seemed to not accept what scripture says and believes the scripture differently from each other, I can't remember.

I quoted the passage maam, what it means is that many will accept the requirements and gain life, however although it is open to all, everyone in the world, only a small percentage will accept the sacrifice. So yes Jesus did die for the world, but although many will accept it, they will be few in number to those who will be destroyed, sadly.

The Bible never contradicts as I am sure you will agree, so when there is a seeming contradiction, one must research until the full meaning is understood. I will tell you this, every single individual in the world was from God, I sincerely hope my understanding that only a few will make it is wrong, but then again although I would be a very lenient judge, I would not allow hitler back, unless he was willing to undergo all the hurt he caused to each and every individual during his life, and I seriously doubt he would be willing to do it, but I would give him that opportunity. That goes for all the horrendously wicked as well.

 

[Taken]

I can not give you a Scriptural one-liner That reveals the difference between.

Because there is no Scripture that says so.

There is no scripture “in your words”.


* Gods Spirit being WITH a Man...(and CAN Leave that man) AND * Gods Spirit being WITH-IN a man...(and can NEVER Leave that man)

There certainly is difference in Scripture between God being with us and God being in us:

Precisely my point you are against.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And since there is no Scripture for partaking with vs 'fully' partaking in, then partaking is within only, which includes regurgitating after eating.

There is no tasting and spitting out the word of God, because when the word is heard, it is immediately buried in the heart, not just flying between the ears in one side and out the other:

“The Understanding IS the difference between tasting and eating.”
Taste the Word of God, God is WITH that man.
God With a man , IS God Who is Spirit.
Eat the Word of God, God IS IN that man, IS God WithIN that man.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Buried in the heart is swallowing the word: partaking is eating, even as Scripture says.

Same as I already precisely said.

* Gods Spirit being WITH-IN a man...(and can NEVER Leave that man)

God can do whatever, whenever He wants, which includes not continuing to dwell in the heart of the disobedient along with the lust of the world.

God IS limited by His Own degree. God can Not lie. God can leave a man He is With. God can NOT leave a man God IS With-IN.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Sinners with hearts of lust have no Spirit of God dwelling within them, nor the seed of Christ buried deep within unto good fruit and righteousness of God.

An unchanged heart, does not have the Spirit of God With-IN that man.

* I have described the difference, given you Scriptural points. It requires a study. I can not study it for you nor understand it for you.

You have made Scriptural points about a difference in Scripture, that Scripture itself does not say, and so I don't accept it.

You are quoting Scriptures that support what I have already said.

It requires a study. I can not study it for you nor understand it for you.

I don't try to study something I can't plainly understand from reading the Scripture as written.

Scripture is KNOWLEDGE.
The UNDERSTANDING of that Knowledge,
Comes from Two Places...
An individual’s MIND, as you imply the case for yourself...
OR
From God, Which I believe is what Scripture teaches is Reliable.

The rule of rightly dividing the word of truth is to first rightly divide between what is written and what is not.

Eh...you are debating Having Faith or FaithFull.
Numerous Scriptures speak of God Giving FAITH when a man IS with God...that man can fall away..
and withholding giving Faith to a man who is Against God.
And FaithFullness given a Converted man, that that man can never Fall Away.

We must start with what is written to base any teaching of Scripture, so that we avoid teaching our own things that are not written as such.

Already did.

If you want to teach there is a difference in Scripture between partaking and 'fully' partaking, then you must begin by quoting the Scripture that says so.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I quoted the passage maam, what it means is that many will accept the requirements and gain life, however although it is open to all, everyone in the world, only a small percentage will accept the sacrifice. So yes Jesus did die for the world, but although many will accept it, they will be few in number to those who will be destroyed, sadly.

The Bible never contradicts as I am sure you will agree, so when there is a seeming contradiction, one must research until the full meaning is understood. I will tell you this, every single individual in the world was from God, I sincerely hope my understanding that only a few will make it is wrong, but then again although I would be a very lenient judge, I would not allow hitler back, unless he was willing to undergo all the hurt he caused to each and every individual during his life, and I seriously doubt he would be willing to do it, but I would give him that opportunity. That goes for all the horrendously wicked as well.

I agree and believe Jesus when He said "few there are that find it." What I feel sorry for are those particular denominations that believe ONLY people from their one denomination will be among those few. It all boils down to who Jesus has taken their sin nature away, and they keep themselves. 1 John 5:18. They are individuals, not denominationalists.

 

[Degas]

God's people are not sinners

This is what many Christians seem to think but Jesus was clear that, to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, one must do the will of God: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

I suppose everyone would agree that those Jesus calls evildoers are sinners?

 

[Taken]

There certainly is difference in Scripture between God being with us and God being in us:

And since there is no Scripture for partaking with vs 'fully' partaking in, then partaking is within only, which includes regurgitating after eating.

There is no tasting and spitting out the word of God, because when the word is heard, it is immediately buried in the heart, not just flying between the ears in one side and out the other:

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

God can do whatever, whenever He wants, which includes not continuing to dwell in the heart of the disobedient along with the lust of the world.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Sinners with hearts of lust have no Spirit of God dwelling within them, nor the seed of Christ buried deep within unto good fruit and righteousness of God.

You have made Scriptural points about a difference in Scripture, that Scripture itself does not say, and so I don't accept it.

I don't try to study something I can't plainly understand from reading the Scripture as written.

The rule of rightly dividing the word of truth is to first rightly divide between what is written and what is not.

We must start with what is written to base any teaching of Scripture, so that we avoid teaching our own things that are not written as such.

If you want to teach there is a difference in Scripture between partaking and 'fully' partaking, then you must begin by quoting the Scripture that says so.

I believe Faith IS A Gift from God, Given men WHO Believe IN God.

I see a difference between...
Faithless; —>
...men who do Not Believe IN God.

Having Faith; —>
...men WHO Believe IN God, but yet can Be influenced to Fall Away From Believing in God.

And Being Faith-Full; —>
...men WHO Believe IN God, and can NEVER Fall Away From Believing in God.

Men who ARE “having Faith”...
..ARE Tasting the Word of God.
..ARE With God:
..God is With Them:
..ARE Warned: Of Evil world influences
..ARE Warned: Of Wicked world influences
..ARE Keeping: their Faith BY their own power
..CAN “Fall Away” From Faith
..Falling Away...they will Not BE WITH God
..Falling Away...God will Not Be WITH them
..WILL BE Saved AT the time of their Physical death IF they endure, Keeping Their Faith, until their physical death.

Men who ARE “being Faith-FULL”
..HAVE Eaten the Word of God.
..HAVE become CONVERTED
..HAVE become Forgiven.
..HAVE become bodily Dead.
..Have Soul Saved.
..Have Become spirit Quickened.
..Have Become FILLED WITH Gods Spirit IN them.
..ARE KEPT WITH God For ever BY The Power of God IN them.
..ARE Never in danger OF “Falling Away”... From Faith....nor From God.

If you do not grasp that Knowledge from Scriptural reading and study...that is your burden to read and study Scriptural Knowledge regarding faith, the danger of man Falling from Faith when a man depends on his own power and the power of God With-IN a man that keeps a man faithFULL forever.

If you are depending on your Natural Intellectual Carnal Mind to give you understanding of Gods Spiritual Knowledge...
You missed a great Spiritual Lesson.
God is Spirit...Understanding Gods Spiritual Truth/Word/Knowledge...is according to Gods Spiritual Understanding...Which only God Himself gives to individuals.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[n2thelight]

There is always one or two Scriptures that ends all dispute of doctrine of God, and they are usually the most obvious ones staring us in the face:

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

God's people are not sinners, and sinners are not God's people.

There are no Scriptures speaking of saved and redeemed sinners, but only of saved and redeemed saints in Christ Jesus.

Those falling all over themselves to call themselves sinners, in most humble fashion, never ever refer to themselves as saints.

How can them that say they are as depraved as any sinner in the world ever refer to themselves as the righteous?

They even accuse the chiefest of the apostles as claiming to have been the chiefest of sinners during His apostleship.

Paul was not the apostle of sinners, but rather was the apostle of the saints, questioning how any that are called to be saints, can possibly continue in sins in this present world.

Sinners say they can. God does not.

Do you sin ?

 

[Taken]

Is this your version of having a dual nature?

The old man of sin is the physical body, and the heart of lust is body's blood pump?

Duel nature ? That is your term, not mine.


Can never again, Sin Against God, ie Not Believe in God, Ie Speak Against God, Doubt God).

Can never sin again with the body? Or never again be judged for sins of the flesh?

You overlook the Scriptural definition of all sin: doing unrighteousness, disobeying God, transgressing His law and word.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Cannot do sin, do unrighteousness, transgress the law of God, disobey God's commandment.[/QUOTE]

A mans Forgiveness having BEEN Against God, (ie mans SIN), is A Forgiveness Given a man, BY, Through, Of Christ the Lord Jesus, Given a “Converted” man ONCE and forever.

A mans Forgivenesses’ Between men, IS for Trespasses, and routinely given Between men.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Robert Gwin]

I agree and believe Jesus when He said "few there are that find it." What I feel sorry for are those particular denominations that believe ONLY people from their one denomination will be among those few. It all boils down to who Jesus has taken their sin nature away, and they keep themselves. 1 John 5:18. They are individuals, not denominationalists.

Do you have any Scriptural support that Jehovah accepts more than one faith maam? I hope you are correct, but I don't see it that way. We have to go with the Scripturally identified people of God for Salvation. Are you aware of how these other faiths came about?