Christians are not sinners

[robert derrick]

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

This Scripture is for every person on earth, who are all the same in sight of God, if we commit sin in the flesh.

If any man on earth commits sin, then we all have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ, to confess and repent of our sin in His name, and be given power to become His sons, that we may sin not.

Any sinner on earth, whether called Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc...who commits sin, is judged before God as all sinners alike, unless any sinner turns to the Advocate and propitiation for the whole world.

God is not a respecter of persons, and will judge every person according to their works.

These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear.

Any on earth who commit sin against God are become an enemy of God, and any such sinner that turns to God's Advocate to repent, is then forgiven and given power to become His sons.

This is the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ to all the world, without respect of persons: to be saved from our sins, not in them.

The gospel that preaches justification of sinners, to not be judged for their continued sins, as opposed to other sinners on earth, is another gospel of a God with respect of persons for the name of their own religion, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist.

Christians who say their souls are not judged for their sins that do likewise as others, seek to have the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ with respect of persons, that they may justify themselves in their sins of the world.

 

[robert derrick]

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled; In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

The mind at enmity with God is that of the carnal minded creature, who still thinks of when they will sin again, and so go on still in their wicked sins and trespasses against God.

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

Those who preach another gospel with respect of persons for justifying themselves in their sins, are as beasts who have their deadly head wound healed with the untempered mortar of justification by faith alone, and so no more to be judged for their sins.

Every sinful believer on earth in their religion thinks they themselves will be justified with God, and not be judged for continuing in sin against God unto death.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you have any Scriptural support that Jehovah accepts more than one faith maam? I hope you are correct, but I don't see it that way. We have to go with the Scripturally identified people of God for Salvation. Are you aware of how these other faiths came about?

There is only one faith, but many denominations. Denominations are splits in the Church. I am not a denominationalist. I want to know from God, the Author, what he means by every verse He wrote; not follow some leader of a split in the Church of Jesus Christ that has no unity with the rest of the body of Christ.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There is only one faith, but many denominations. Denominations are splits in the Church. I am not a denominationalist. I want to know from God, the Author, what he means by every verse He wrote; not follow some leader of a split in the Church of Jesus Christ that has no unity with the rest of the body of Christ.

Not denominations maam, congregations. All speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10, teaching the same truths Jn 4:24. If they are not of the same faith, then 1 or both of them broke off from the original and followed others Acts 20:29,30

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not denominations maam, congregations. All speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10, teaching the same truths Jn 4:24. If they are not of the same faith, then 1 or both of them broke off from the original and followed others Acts 20:29,30

No, I'm talking about the many congregations inside a denomination. They are all taught the same thing according to the denomination.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No, I'm talking about the many congregations inside a denomination. They are all taught the same thing according to the denomination.

Sorry I misunderstood you the first time maam, I fully agree.

 

[Happy Trails]

There is always one or two Scriptures that ends all dispute of doctrine of God, and they are usually the most obvious ones staring us in the face:

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

God's people are not sinners, and sinners are not God's people.

There are no Scriptures speaking of saved and redeemed sinners, but only of saved and redeemed saints in Christ Jesus.

Those falling all over themselves to call themselves sinners, in most humble fashion, never ever refer to themselves as saints.

How can them that say they are as depraved as any sinner in the world ever refer to themselves as the righteous?

They even accuse the chiefest of the apostles as claiming to have been the chiefest of sinners during His apostleship.

Paul was not the apostle of sinners, but rather was the apostle of the saints, questioning how any that are called to be saints, can possibly continue in sins in this present world.

Sinners say they can. God does not.

The disputes are likely the by-product of the audience not understanding the cultural context.

"Walking" and "following" have a specific meaning to people of Semitic cultures.

"Christian" means "follower of Christ."

A person who follows Jesus observes the Sabbath and the feasts of YHVH and eats kosher. That is what Jesus did. That is what "walking" means. It is what "following" means.

Walking in the counsel of the ungodly is believing those who say, "those are Jewish feasts, that was for the Jews, Christians don't need to obey the Law, and we now have a new set of feasts to replace the ones decreed by God."

People often claim to be Christians. It doesn't translate to following Jesus any more than any other moral teacher.

 

[Degas]

I see a difference between...
Faithless; —>
...men who do Not Believe IN God.

Having Faith; —>
...men WHO Believe IN God, but yet can Be influenced to Fall Away From Believing in God.

And Being Faith-Full; —>
...men WHO Believe IN God, and can NEVER Fall Away From Believing in God.

I appreciate the differences you make between different levels of faith but even someone faithful hence someone who cannot fall away from believing in God per your definition can still sin

Do you sin ?

Everybody sins unless they are one with God, that's the thing.

This Scripture is for every person on earth, who are all the same in sight of God, if we commit sin in the flesh.

This is a very narrow understanding of sin. Sin can also be committed in thoughts and it takes being a saint not so sin in thoughts.

Every sinful believer on earth in their religion thinks they themselves will be justified with God, and not be judged for continuing in sin against God unto death.

And rightly so since Jesus was very clear that all the law and the prophets derive from only two commandments: 1- love God; 2- love your neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40) and Jesus never said we should love the only God the Christian way.

I will add that all of you put way too much emphasis on the scriptures although Jesus was clear this is next to useless (Matthew 11:25; Luke 10:21) and, to become like children as per Jesus' view, what we need is spiritual practice. So the questions are not whether or not

God's people are not sinners, and sinners are not God's people.

Paul was not the apostle of sinners, but rather was the apostle of the saints

(two false statements, by the way) but how much time we spend praying.

I will also add that most Christians think they aren't sinners, some of them even think they can ignore my inputs even though I tell them I met Jesus in Heaven and, twenty years later, he appeared to me and requested me to witness so, I'll be a little brutal, hoping this will wake up some of them: the mere way some of you always quote the same verses over and over while ignoring the verses that confront your beliefs is a sin and those words from Jesus apply to you:

"I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father" (John 8:38)

"Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God" (John 8:47)

 

[Taken]

I appreciate the differences you make between different levels of faith but even someone faithful hence someone who cannot fall away from believing in God per your definition can still sin...

My knowledge of “measures” of Faith, is not as you say “different levels”, but rather, “measures” as Scripture says.

Rom 12:
[3] For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

The “measures” of Faith, Scripture in Rom 12, details the purpose of measures of Faith, Given individual men, Being the catalyst, for individual men to accomplish Particular Services, That Glorify God, Before the Eyes Of men OF the World.

In my view; Sin is an individual mankind of created creature being “Against” God.
ie. Disbelief IN God, Disbelief IN the One Whom God Sent and the teaching there IS no Heavenly Lord God Almighty.

Everybody sins unless they are one with God, that's the thing.

*God Himself Established Divisions among people and Established His people ARE Israel. And Israel WHO Believe IN God, Shall remain WITH God, and Israel WHO rejects God, God in turn shall reject, called: Cut off.
*Gods Word, called Jesus, and Sent By God to Earth...also Reiterated Division among Gods people ISRAEL...AND inclusion of Willing men Heartfully desiring to Become MADE included, called Gentile’s.
^ Such Divisions...ARE continuously ongoing, and Shall continue throughout the generations...Until After Christ Jesus’ Millennial Reign...at which time, Everybody that is Divided WITH the Lord God....and Divided WITHOUT the Lord God Shall Be Wholly (body, soul & spirit) Separated one from the other...
^ men WHO have Accepted the Lord Gods Offering to BE MADE Wholly (Body, soul, spirit), Separated NOW (during their physical lifetime), as was Offered 2,000+ years Ago...
DOES NOT “include” everybody today.

but even someone faithful hence someone who cannot fall away from believing in God per your definition can still sin...

^ Not sure how you have determined ^ That applies to my belief, since I have never said such a thing!

This is a very narrow understanding of sin. Sin can also be committed in thoughts and it takes being a saint not so sin in thoughts.

Ignoring your conclusion, based on your invalid interpretation of my beliefs.

I will add that all of you put way too much emphasis on the scriptures although Jesus was clear this is next to useless (Matthew 11:25; Luke 10:21) and, to become like children as per Jesus' view, what we need is spiritual practice. So the questions are not whether or not

Disagree.
[25] At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
[26] Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
[27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

My view is Scripture is paramount Knowledge.
Knowledge ABOUT The Lord God Almighty.
When one Freely Chooses To Increase Their Knowledge About The Lord God...God Himself increases that individuals measures of Faith.

The individual is Acting upon his own “power” to Hear/Read Knowledge About God, to continue (endure), or NOT.
A man by his own “power” ie Volition/choice who continues, therefore, by Gods GRACE, continues Receiving Measures Of increased Faith from God.
That ^ IS NOT a Converted man!
That ^ IS a man WITH God and God With that man.
** At ANY time that man CAN be influenced...by evil spirits, by wicked men OF the world...and Freely Chose TO Reject The Lord God.
** Any man WHO so does Freely Choose to Reject the Lord God...in ture becomes Rejected by The Lord God.
*They are called having Fallen From Faith.
^ That ^ has ZERO application to a individual “Converted IN Christ”.
^ A Converted Individual IS NOT Kept IN Faith by their “OWN power”, but rather ARE kept IN Faith...Expressly by the Power of God, that DWELLS, WITH-IN, That Individual.
* the Converted IN Christ Individual IS expressly the Individual, who IS Freed From Sin, and can SIN “no more”!
* it is utterly Against Scriptural teaching, that a Man Converted IN Christ, can Be INDWELT with the Spirit of God AND Sin Against God!
Really? Gods Power “IN” a man yields to the power of a man?
Uh, no.

I will also add that most Christians think they aren't sinners,

Christianity IS a man-made concept. Being WITH God and Being WITH-IN God IS the whole paramount Basis of God Sending His Word and New Covenant Offering TO Earth.
It matters not to me, what “name/title tag” individuals choose for themselves at any given time.
* Christ Jesus Himself Expressed “Conversion” is the absolute “surety” for an individual TO forever BE Forgiven, Forever Freed From ability to Ever Again Sin Against God, assured to Forever BE with God.

So the Question IS:
Are men WHO claim to BE converted...STILL, standing AGAINT God?

And the Answer IS always the Same...oh no, they are “all set WITH God”....but, but, but...
“They DO SIN AGAINST Men!”
That ^ is appropriately applicable to A Man UNDER Mosaic Law.
But how does that apply to a man, NOT UNDER Mosaic Law? It Doesn’t however is routinely taught in Christian churches....when Scripture itself teaches SIN is Against God And Only God can forgive Sin.
And men Trespass Against eachother And absolutely Men can forgive men of Trespasses.

Sin no more? I have been made unable to ever again Sin Against God.
Sin no more? I Sin no more.
Am I Sinless? No.
My Sin in my body, IS Forgiven, Covered with Gods Light, Unseen by God, Remembered no more by God.
A mans fixation on Sin has zero affect on my relationship with God.

some of them even think they can ignore my inputs even though I tell them I met Jesus in Heaven and, twenty years later, he appeared to me and requested me to witness so, I'll be a little brutal, hoping this will wake up some of them: the mere way some of you always quote the same verses over and over while ignoring the verses that confront your beliefs is a sin and those words from Jesus apply to you:

I don’t know you, nor have read your encounter testimonies. Nor does your words suffice to represent my beliefs.
You are not qualified to dictate which Scriptures do and do not Apply to me.
Jesus spoke many things, some words which applies to believers and some which applies to unbelievers. You deciding which applies to me is not within your authority!

 

[Degas]

but even someone faithful hence someone who cannot fall away from believing in God per your definition can still sin...
^ Not sure how you have determined ^ That applies to my belief, since I have never said such a thing!

Oh, you never said such a thing? What about post #177?

Being Faith-Full; —>
...men WHO Believe IN God, and can NEVER Fall Away From Believing in God.

 

[Degas]

Which should we desire to identify with?

Identifying with and being are two very different things.

True. Christians are not sinners. We are saints!

Why not let God's Word be the judge?

And in what verses would God's word say that all Christians are saints?

 

[Taken]

Oh, you never said such a thing? What about post #177?

I stand by what Scripture Says...faith-full Men converted IN Christ Do Not Sin, Can Not Sin.

1 John 3:
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Wynona]

Identifying with and being are two very different things.



And in what verses would God's word say that all Christians are saints?

Acts 26:10, Romans 1:7, 1 Corinthians 1:2 and many more.

I couldn't find a verse where Christians are referred to as sinners.

 

[Taken]

And in what verses would God's word say that all Christians are saints?

God calls many.
Few answer His Calling.
Those who answer, Are chosen;
Are Sanctified.
Those who Are Sanctified, Are, by the Power of God; Made Saints.

Matt 22:
[14] For many are called, but few are chosen.

1 Cor 1:
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

 

[MatthewG]

I’m a Christian who is a sinner. Saved by the grace of God.

It’s amazing what the life changing holy Spirit is capable of doing when you have faith in Jesus and his death, burial, and resurrection.

Though I do sin, I recognize my place as being a child of God having faith and others should too. That God loves you, even when you make mistakes. God helps us when temptation come up, but sometimes you might fall into them. God helps us back up from our falls. By faith you are part of the kingdom of God, a heavenly citizen.

A righteous man might fall but will get up again. Isn’t that a verse in the Bible? What is a righteous man? Isn’t it those who believe in Jesus Christ who is the righteousness of God, by faith?

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Degas]

I couldn't find a verse where Christians are referred to as sinners.

Maybe you should read Matthew 7:21-23

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Degas

You can also see here in Romans 7 what the Apostle Paul stated:

So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. Romans 7:10-16

He talked previous how we are to die to sin, however that doesn't mean sin can not come back up. Though we try to live by the Spirit He goes on to take about in Romans 8.

 

[Degas]

You can also see here in Romans 7 what the Apostle Paul stated

The way Paul talks about obeying the Law is like walking blind folded in a mine field while only being led by someone telling us where to step foot. It is difficult and inefficient plus, sooner or later, this will lead to our death. Being sinless by Jesus' very explanations in Matthew 7:21-23, that I quoted in my previous post, is doing God's will which, in my metaphor, is like removing the blindfold and seeing the mines -- which are not buried in this metaphor. It then becomes effortless and perfectly safe to walk and even run in the mine field.

 

[MatthewG]

The way Paul talks about obeying the Law is like walking blind folded in a mine field while only being led by someone telling us where to step foot. It is difficult and inefficient plus, sooner or later, this will lead to our death. Being sinless by Jesus' very explanations in Matthew 7:21-23, that I quoted in my previous post, is doing God's will which, in my metaphor, is like removing the blindfold and seeing the mines -- which are not buried in this metaphor. It then becomes effortless and perfectly safe to walk and even run in the mine field.

Many people like to use Matthew 7:21-23. I love how in Matthew 7 it starts out with how if we judge others, we too ourselves will be judged with the equal measure.

 

[robert derrick]

The disputes are likely the by-product of the audience not understanding the cultural context.

"Walking" and "following" have a specific meaning to people of Semitic cultures.

"Christian" means "follower of Christ."

A person who follows Jesus observes the Sabbath and the feasts of YHVH and eats kosher. That is what Jesus did. That is what "walking" means. It is what "following" means.

Walking in the counsel of the ungodly is believing those who say, "those are Jewish feasts, that was for the Jews, Christians don't need to obey the Law, and we now have a new set of feasts to replace the ones decreed by God."

People often claim to be Christians. It doesn't translate to following Jesus any more than any other moral teacher.

"Walking" and "following" have a specific meaning to people of Semitic cultures.

Maybe to 'Semitics' but not to God: following Jesus is walking in His steps:

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps.

Which are the same steps of the faith in Him that Abraham had:

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

A person who follows Jesus observes the Sabbath and the feasts of YHVH and eats kosher. That is what Jesus did. That is what "walking" means. It is what "following" means.

What Jesus did as a Jew faithful to the law of Moses, has nothing to do with following and walking with the risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Walking in the counsel of the ungodly is believing those who say...

Walking in the counsel of the ungodly is walking according to those who say Christians are still ungodly sinners unto death:

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

"those are Jewish feasts, that was for the Jews, Christians don't need to obey the Law, and we now have a new set of feasts to replace the ones decreed by God."

And using the sophistry of walking vs following to slide in Judaism to obeying Jesus Christ, is childish at best and dishonest at most:

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds.

People often claim to be Christians. It doesn't translate to following Jesus any more than any other moral teacher.

While still trying to be justified with the risen God of Israel by the law of Moses.