Christians are not sinners

[Johann]

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Imputed righteousness of God is God reckoning one to be righteous in His sight.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

No man is righteous in sight of God that is not doing His righteousness.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

God's imputes righteousness only to them that believe to do His righteousness with the heart.

Abraham was imputed righteousness of God, because God say His faith in the heart of Abraham to do His will and produce a child with Sarah past age.

Sinners that believe in doing sins, do not believe in doing His righteousness, and so by their faith they are not imputed righteousness of God, but are imputed sins of the devil.

There is no imputed righteousness to unrighteous sinners, and the unrighteous who say and teach that they are righteous with God, are liars and false teachers:

Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them.

No unrighteous sinner is imputed God's righteousness, nor are good His sight.

Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

...the question was 'Did Christ became sin/sinner..
Blessings
J.

“Half our fears arise from neglect of the
Bible.”
― Charles H. Spurgeon

 

[robert derrick]

Strong Evidence Inherited Sin Is Heresy

Jesus was fully God when He was physically born into this world.
Jesus was also fully man when He was born into this world.

The Bible teaches that Jesus suffered the same hardships that every man must go through in this life.
He was not given favoritism by His Father over any other man.

This proves calvinism a false doctrine. Calvinism teaches Jesus did not inherit sin.
Implications:
1. Jesus had an advantage in overcoming sin that we do not.

2. Jesus was not made like His brethren in all things if calvinism be true,
Hebrews 2:14-18
Inasmuch then a s the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He, Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had power of death, that is the devil,

And release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

For indeed He does not give aid to Angel's, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.

Therefore in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sons of the people.

For in Him that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

Calvinism refuted.
If Jesus did not inherit "all the sin we inherit" and given the depraved nature and guilt of sin as we supposedly have,
Then Jesus was not tempted in all things as we are, just as the scriptures teach.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED AS WE ARE, yet without sin.

Calvinism refuted

Thanks very much. This is a key that opens the true reading of many Scriptures, and exposes the lie about them:

The lie is that man sins, because man is made in sin and born into the world with the sin nature. This is the lie that sinners use to excuse their sinning, including Christian sinners that still claim the sin nature for reason to go on still sinning, and not obey the commandment to go and sin no more.

Scripture says no man has such excuse to disobey God and sin. (Roman 1:20)

And there is always one or two Scriptures to prove the truth of God and man:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

The lie is to read that sin passes upon all men. It does not. Death passes upon all men. How? By sinning, not by nature.

Sin did not enter into the world, until man sinned, and sin does not enter into our lives in this world, until we sin like Adam.

Sinners are made by sinning, not by nature.

All men are become sinners, because all men have sinned, not because all men are made with sin nature.

Men make themselves sinners by sinning, and so souls die by sinning, not by sin nature.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

A soul that does not sin, it shall not die.

If souls were made with the sin nature, then souls are made in death: God makes dead souls, if god makes souls with sin nature.

And if bodies were made with the sin nature, then bodies are born dead.

Neither is true. Both soul and body are made uncorrupted, the only difference being the immortal soul is made by the Spirit and the mortal body by the flesh.

Souls made by God are neither made sinful nor are they DOA by birth of a woman.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

This Scripture declares man's theology of being born with sin nature is false: sons are not born sinners because of the sinful seed of their fathers.

Sons only become sinners like their fathers, if sinful fathers raise up sons to be sinners like themselves, and so do their sins.

If any man come unto me, and hate not his faith, and his mother, and his wife, and his children, and brethren and sisters, and yea his own life also; he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus does not teach to hate sinners born with sin nature as opposed to saints born of the Spirit, but rather to not love any man more than God, and so sin after their sinful example.

The very haughtiness of the Jews was by the pernicious lie of men being born with sin nature: them born of the physical seed of Abraham and David were born differently into the world than the Gentiles, and so the flesh of the heathen was unclean to touch.

And as Christians partaking of the divine nature, we too become haughty the same way, in thinking our neighbors are still born of the sin nature, while we are born of the divine.

All men are born into the world the same, without sin, and sin only enters into the world by sinning, not by nature. Period.

Good work Titus for the key to unlock the truth of free will, and to do away with the stupid excuse of the sin 'gene'.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Ah I dunno. It just makes me laugh how anyone can claim to be free from temptation. Paul wasn't. Not even Christ was. I think such people don't have a good understanding of Satan and how he operates. As Paul says, evil is with us every step of the way, like a thorn in the flesh.
Greed is a sin. Christ basically said it's impossible for the rich to get to heaven. So, if your well off and working your a sinner.
Pride is a sin, if you think your better than Christ your a sinner.
Their are many sins that are innocuous.
Thoughts are sins; anger, jealousy, hate, envy. Your not human if you've never had such thoughts

 

[robert derrick]

Ah I dunno. It just makes me laugh how anyone can claim to be free from temptation. Paul wasn't. Not even Christ was. I think such people don't have a good understanding of Satan and how he operates. As Paul says, evil is with us every step of the way, like a thorn in the flesh.
Greed is a sin. Christ basically said it's impossible for the rich to get to heaven. So, if your well off and working your a sinner.
Pride is a sin, if you think your better than Christ your a sinner.
Their are many sins that are innocuous.
Thoughts are sins; anger, jealousy, hate, envy. Your not human if you've never had such thoughts

This post truly does take the cake of complete and utter folly. I have never seen so many twisted turns and lies about God, Scripture, and His saints in so few words. This is one for the record book of seeing the light blindly.

Christian sinners are the only people on the planet, that can so proudly declare their continued only-human status as sinners, and in such a really humble way.

While accusing the righteous of pride to boot.

But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Imagine it. The way to true salvation and eternal life is to keep the burden of sinning unto the end.

And if anyone thinks they've been delivered from it by Jesus, they need to go do sin again to prove themselves wrong and the sinners right.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[Jim B]

Ah I dunno. It just makes me laugh how anyone can claim to be free from temptation. Paul wasn't. Not even Christ was. I think such people don't have a good understanding of Satan and how he operates. As Paul says, evil is with us every step of the way, like a thorn in the flesh.
Greed is a sin. Christ basically said it's impossible for the rich to get to heaven. So, if your well off and working your a sinner.
Pride is a sin, if you think your better than Christ your a sinner.
Their are many sins that are innocuous.
Thoughts are sins; anger, jealousy, hate, envy. Your not human if you've never had such thoughts

I basically agree with you. Nobody is free of temptation. Even Christ was tempted as we are. (Hebrews 4:14-15, "Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. For we do not have a high priest incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin.)

Don't pay attention to someone who harshly criticizes you such as Derrick. He has a very twisted doctrine and I have put him on "ignore". BTW, notice the percentage of "likes" he has received (21.57%) compared to yours (87.86%)

 

[Cristo Rei]

This post truly does take the cake of complete and utter folly. I have never seen so many twisted turns and lies about God, Scripture, and His saints in so few words. This is one for the record book of seeing the light blindly.

Christian sinners are the only people on the planet, that can so proudly declare their continued only-human status as sinners, and in such a really humble way.

While accusing the righteous of pride to boot.

But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Imagine it. The way to true salvation and eternal life is to keep the burden of sinning unto the end.

And if anyone thinks they've been delivered from it by Jesus, they need to go do sin again to prove themselves wrong and the sinners right.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Here we have someone who is so full of pride he thinks he is greater than Christ.
You say you are sinless but your response is full of anger, hate and false accusations.
You are full of sin my friend.
Repent before its too late.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I basically agree with you. Nobody is free of temptation. Even Christ was tempted as we are. (Hebrews 4:14-15, "Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. For we do not have a high priest incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin.)

Don't pay attention to someone who harshly criticizes you such as Derrick. He has a very twisted doctrine and I have put him on "ignore". BTW, notice the percentage of "likes" he has received (21.57%) compared to yours (87.86%)

True. He claims to be free of sin but shows so much hate and anger towards fellow Christians that he is obviously has temptations and isn't very good at avoiding them

 

[Degas]

Tell me exactly how you know Im not saved.

I you were saved, you would know I'm telling the truth (John 8:47). The opposite is also true: just by reading the way you -- as well as most Christians- ) don't understand Jesus' teachings is enough for me to know only a handful are saved.

So don't write me off.

I only wrote you off because you know nothing of God and Jesus sent me to help people like you but I'll respect your request which happens to match Jesus' instructions in Matthew 10:11-14. Have fun being a blind led by the blind without falling into a pit.

Sister if you feel the Spirit and love and believe in Christ and that he died for our sins, you are saved.

Dear friend, this is exactly what Lucifer and the satanists who tampered with Jesus' teachings want you to think. They want you to think you are saved although you are not.

 

[JohnPaul]

I you were saved, you would know I'm telling the truth (John 8:47). The opposite is also true: just by reading the way you -- as well as most Christians- ) don't understand Jesus' teachings is enough for me to know only a handful are saved.


I only wrote you off because you know nothing of God and Jesus sent me to help people like you but I'll respect your request which happens to match Jesus' instructions in Matthew 10:11-14. Have fun being a blind led by the blind without falling into a pit.


Dear friend, this is exactly what Lucifer and the satanists who tampered with Jesus' teachings want you to think. They want you to think you are saved although you are not.

You are wrong in both what you said to Wynona and myself, it's you who are being led by the blind.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Remember people that ill thoughts and feelings can be sins. Hate, envy, anger, jealousy. Who can honestly say theyve never had such emotions. Only a robot

 

[Jim B]

I you were saved, you would know I'm telling the truth (John 8:47). The opposite is also true: just by reading the way you -- as well as most Christians- ) don't understand Jesus' teachings is enough for me to know only a handful are saved.


I only wrote you off because you know nothing of God and Jesus sent me to help people like you but I'll respect your request which happens to match Jesus' instructions in Matthew 10:11-14. Have fun being a blind led by the blind without falling into a pit.


Dear friend, this is exactly what Lucifer and the satanists who tampered with Jesus' teachings want you to think. They want you to think you are saved although you are not.

Why do you consider yourself a Christian? You have a very superior attitude. Unfortunately, judging by your post, you don't love your neighbor as yourself.

..."most Christians don't understand Jesus' teachings"? Have you actually polled the church -- the body of Christ -- to come up with you judgement?

Only are handful are saved? What is the basis for this statement, aside from your own personal judgement?

"Jesus sent me to help people like you"? Are you serious? You're not helping anyone with your false superior attitude.

This is exactly what Lucifer and the satanists who tampered with Jesus' teachings want you to think

 

[robert derrick]

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceiving while they feast with you;

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray. (2 peter 2)

This chapter of Peter is all about false prophets of old and false teachers today. He is declaring they are them that cannot cease from sinning, because they will not, but rather justify their continued hypocrisies by teaching devil's doctrines for doctrine of Christ.

Those who do not cease from sinning and justify it by false doctrine, are the same as Balaam, and in Jude as Cain and Korah.

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

They speak evil of the faithful and righteous saints of God, who rebuke them with Scripture for their ongoing sins and trespasses: instead of repenting, they call the saints proud, self-righteous, and haters of other 'Christians'.

Peter himself tells us how even as Christians we cannot cease from sinning in this life.

And so OSAS sinners, who plainly declare how depraved they are like the world, identify themselves with the hypocrite heroes of old: Balaam, Cain, and Korah, who turned from God, and went on to be destroyers of the faith and the faithful.

And they therefore actually conclude that their continued hypocrisy is justified, because they think Peter is telling them that no man nor Christian can cease from sinning in this life.

They are so committed to sinning unto death, and are so blinded by their delusion doctrine of unconditional salvation by dead faith alone, that they are more than willing to stand alongside all the false apostles and teachers, and receive the rebuke by Scripture as though it were justification of God for not ceasing from their sins.

Incredible.

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

 

[Happy Trails]

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost. (1 Timothy 1:15).

Note that "I am" (eimi ego) is in the present active indicative case, indicating Paul considered himself a sinner at the time he wrote the letter. Not "I was".

Simul iustus et peccator: At the same time justified and yet a sinner.

Once a person enters a class, they do not leave.

Someone has to only murder once to be a murderer for the rest of his life. He need not continue murdering to maintain that status.

If one ever steals, he is always a thief. There is no erase feature.

It is why we all need a redeemer.

Recognition of the severity of sin is not an endorsement.

 

[robert derrick]

Once a person enters a class, they do not leave.

Someone has to only murder once to be a murderer for the rest of his life. He need not continue murdering to maintain that status.

If one ever steals, he is always a thief. There is no erase feature.

It is why we all need a redeemer.

Recognition of the severity of sin is not an endorsement.

This is not true. I stopped being a thief as a sinner, before ever being saved.

Not only man, but also God acknowledges repentance, even with sinners. The only difference with man and God is that man considers the crime paid for by sentencing, while God sees the sin as past by confession and repentance from the heart, with no need to pay for it.

Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

This is true for any man on earth, not just the believers in the one true God of heaven and earth:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Any man can repent of any sin committed from the heart, and God who sees all hearts will acknowledge and forgive it for Jesus' sake, who died not only for Christians but for the whole world.

The difference between being a repentant sinner and a saint, is that sinners can repent of certain sinning, but saints repent of all sinning, so that all sinning is passed (Rom 3:25), which is only possible with God and His power given to become His sons in all things righteous and holy:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Sin is not a nature, but is a sin sinned, and so is not a class identifier for life. If any man repents of committed sin, then God will ofrgive it, and God commands man to do the same.

Only the unforgiving hold past sinning over others who repent, and still call them murderers, thieves, adulterers...

The only thing that matters in life today is today, not yesterday nor tomorrow: if we are sinning today, we are sinners today, and if we are repented from past sin and not committing it today, we are righteous today:

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Yesterday cannot be undone, and only today can be changed, and Christ died on the cross that any man might repent of yesterday and live through Him today, and if they do so tomorrow unto the end, then they shall obtain eternal salvation forever in the resurrection of the blessed.

Sinners can repent of any given sin, but only saints have power to repent of them all and walk in the steps of Him who was tempted in all points of sin, yet without sinning.

 

[robert derrick]

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Ceasing from being a sinner and sinning, begins in the heart to clear out all unrighteous thoughts, that are not in obedience to God, but are enmity with God:

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Those who receive Christ into the heart are given power to do cleanse within the platter and purify the heart of lust for sinning, and so have His mind as sons of God and brethren, and no more have the unrighteous carnal mind of a sinner:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Sinners keeping the unrighteous thoughts of the lust of the world to continue sinning, and so remain committed servants to sin, shall not abide in the church and house of God forever: They will have no part int he first resurrection of the blessed.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

Christians sinners profess faith, but in deeds of sinning deny Him, and Christ sees those unrighteous thoughts in the heart first, before man ever sees them with the body.

Jesus does not enter into the door of sinners in order to have fellowship and sup with the unrighteous thoughts of the devil:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Taking hold of the thoughts of the unrighteous, is yoking ourselves together with the unrighteous, for Christ sees the heart first.

Jesus does not 'overlook' any thoughts for unrighteousness, but separates Himself from them and the sinners that keep them in heart to do them with the body:

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.

Christian sinners continue as unrepentant Pharisees, who refuse to cleanse within the platter first, that the outward may be clean in deed and not just whited in appearance:

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Christians sinners simply need to believe to obey the Scripture and receive the power of God as sons, to do what God has commanded all unrighteous men to do of old:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts.

 

[Happy Trails]

I think it's a thin slice of meat that only has one side.

You may have have stopped stealing, but you were still a thief. If you ever illegally killed someone, you are a murderer. Not murdering a second person does not make you "not a murderer." Not stealing again does not make you "not a thief." "Yesterday cannot be undone..." We do not have the capacity to change our status. We can't forgive our own sin. We can repent of our sins, and no longer commit them. But we can't erase our sin. YHVH is never going to mention our sin. If I say I have no sin, I lie, and the truth is not in me.

Paul is calling himself a sinner to acknowledge the fact that, without the blood of Jesus, he deserves the punishment for his sin.

It is important to define the word "repentance." Many people use it like it means "feel really sorry for what you did."

It doesn't. It means to return to the Torah. That is what John the Baptist preached before Jesus showed up. Your quote shows it:

Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

"..turn from sin." 1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the Law."

"...do that which is lawful and right, walk in the statutes of life, without committing sin." That is a wonderful description of returning to the Torah. Even if they restore what was stolen, that person is still guilty of the sin they have committed. Now, they are redeemed from the punishment they deserve. To show their love for their Redeemer, they obey his Commandments. That is how they remain separated from the world. That is what it means to "walk righteously."

The only thing that is up for consideration is our behavior. "What is in our hearts" is NOT a factor. That is a dangerous cop-out used by people to justify disobedience. Everyone, in their heart, believes they are doing right. YHVH says their behavior is the evidence of what's really inside. We are judged according to our works. Your quote confirms it. Our works show whether we made Jesus our Lord. If we obey the Law, we show that we believe Him. If we obey another law, we show that we don't believe Him.

Titus 2:11-12. Grace gives us the power to "live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world." "Righteously and godly" is obeying YHVH's Law. It cannot mean anything else. So, I am a thief who now obeys the Law. When judgment Day comes, my behavior will show that I believe Jesus told me to not sin, and walked accordingly. The only way to not sin is obey the Law. He is not looking at my heart, He is looking at what I do. If I obey Him, my mistakes are overlooked. If I disobey Him, I'm on my own.

 

[robert derrick]

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no salvation inwardly in the heart, where there is no salvation outwardly with the body.

Sinners seeking to be saved by grace through faith only, think they can be saved inwardly only, and not outwardly in deed and in truth.

No sinner is saved, because those committing sins are neither a living sacrifice in body, nor are not blameless in this life.

They think their souls are being preserved blameless, apart from their bodies going on still committing sins.

Unconditional eternally secured salvation by faith within only, is the dystopian teaching of souls sitting in heavenly places pure and holy, while walking after the flesh in all places on earth bodily.

 

[robert derrick]

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Saints in Christ Jesus are neither sinners, nor found sinners, who are neither justified by Christ, nor ministered the righteousness of Christ.

Imputed righteousness by faith in Jesus is to be ministered the righteousness of God within the heart, to do so bodily in all things.

Imputed righteousness of God is not a declaration of being forever righteous by faith alone: that is vain imagination of dead faith.