Christians are sinners, but not of the devil

[Ancient]

Was Jesus wasting his breath,didn't know what he was talking about,when he told people to go and sin no more?

Please define what sin is Biblically.

Shalom

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Please define what sin is Biblically.

Shalom

Lawlessness. Transgressing God's law.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Hello can you please define Biblically what lawlessness is. As in what it meant in the time it was said?

Blessings and Shalom

Iniquity,sin.

 

[Ancient]

And so it goes on and on. The discussion has gone from the OP to trinity etc. We just keep on attacking each other. Help us Yahweh, help us through your Ruach Kadesh to unify somehow as you are the only one that can. Maybe sorrows and tribulation will do it. I know what will definitely do it is the return Messiah Yeshua. May we be able to hold out until then.

Blessings and Shalom

 

[Ancient]

Iniquity,sin.

Which is?

Shalom and Blessings

 

[Phoneman777]

Romans 8:37-39 states that there is nothing in all of creation that can separate us from God's agape love. That would include us ourselves.

To quote John MacArthur, "If we could lose our salvation, we would."

I never said His love is unconditional, but His salvation is VERY MUCH conditional. His "agape" doesn't cripple His justice.

John MacArthur is wrong - the angels can lose theirs, but are doing just fine. Proof?

1/3 are destined for the Lake of Fire "prepared for the devil and his angels".

 

[Phoneman777]

I will never be persuaded by works salvation doctrine to turn from what God said, and Jesus died to seal and guarantee for eternity.

Who's preaching works salvation? We're saved by grace through faith alone, right?

Works are merely the outward evidence of our inward spiritual condition, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They are not “clear”.



“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” (John 1:1-2)

So the “Word” was God and was with God. That’s already a mystery from the get go.

Like Paul said:

“…the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Colossians 2:2-3)

And Paul leaves it a mystery without saying “Jesus is God”.



“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16)

Again it’s a mystery how God was manifest in the flesh. Jesus is not mentioned at all in this text.



Aren’t all things the property of God?

“…all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.” (1 Chronicles 29:14)



No scripture tells us to believe in the trinity. Much less break fellowship over this non-existent doctrine.

And “Godhead” doesn’t mean “trinity”.

“The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” (Deuteronomy 29:29)

It’s better that we find unity in the things revealed to us in the scripture. Not the things that we imagine are in the scripture.

I’ve addressed your denial of the truth of the one true GOD in the thread link below (So as to keep this thread on topic).

Defending the Godhead (Trinity) & the Divine Nature of Christ

 

[friend of]

John MacArthur is wrong - the angels can lose theirs, but are doing just fine. Proof?

There was a time when they made their decision. But now they are locked in to their decision and destiny. Angel's who sided with God cannot lose their salvation now.

His "agape" doesn't cripple His justice

His justice is fulfilled in Christ. Not us.

 

[Phoneman777]

There was a time when they made their decision. But now they are locked in to their decision and destiny. Angel's who sided with God cannot lose their salvation now.

Good point - I very much agree. I don't believe any more angels are going to choose to follow Satan, especially after what they saw him do to Jesus at the Cross. Their time to choose sides is over...is ours?

Remember in Revelation where it says just before Jesus comes He's going to say these words: "Let him who is unjust be unjust still, let him who is filthy be filthy still, let him who is righteous be righteous still, let him who is holy be holy still" ??? Has He said that yet? Nope. Therefore, it's still possible for humanity to switch sides, both saints and sinners, otherwise it would be unnecessary to tell the saints to "be holy and righteous still" at the end of time if the moment they become holy and righteous they remain holy and righteous forever, right or wrong?

Once again, OSAS dies a horrible death and the only thing left to do is give it a proper burial

 

[friend of]

I don't believe any more angels are going to choose to follow Satan

I don't think they could even if they wanted to. We can tell from scripture that the fallen Angels are all doomed. It wouldn't make sense that good angels would have the ability to change sides now if the evil ones cannot also.

Once again, OSAS dies a horrible death and the only thing left to do is give it a proper burial

The alternative to OSAS isn't much prettier. It posits God as indecisive with His gift of salvation. Without OSAS, you kind of have a capricious God who is constantly changing his mind about His children. One moment they are saved and in His arms, the next they are at enmity and under His wrath. Such theology creates what I have termed as "revolving door salvationism." In one minute, out the next. It also makes God into a schizophrenic.

 

[Phoneman777]

I don't think they could even if they wanted to. We can tell from scripture that the fallen Angels are all doomed. It wouldn't make sense that good angels would have the ability to change sides now if the evil ones cannot also.

Able to choose Satan? Yes, but as self destructive as a sane man choosing to crawl into a cage with a ferocious lion.

The alternative to OSAS isn't much prettier. It posits God as indecisive with His gift of salvation.

The decision to accept/retain or reject salvation is purely our decision, and ever available to all for the taking - unless through persistent rebellion we reach the point of spiritual paralysis from which there is no going back.

Without OSAS, you kind of have a capricious God who is constantly changing his mind about His children. One moment they are saved and in His arms, the next they are at enmity and under His wrath. Such theology creates what I have termed as "revolving door salvationism." In one minute, out the next. It also makes God into a schizophrenic.

That's not how it works or what takes place, according to what the Bible teaches about the Just Man and the Presumptuous Man.

 

[robert derrick]

We are all Christians that believe Jesus is the Christ, and we are all sinners that need to believe in Him all the time. But we are not sinners like others that do not believe Jesus is the Christ. Before Jesus saved me, I used to try and sin as much as possible, because I liked it so much, but now I hate it when I sin. I love Jesus being in my mind and heart and do not try to sin nor enjoy it, but I still do. When we sin we still believe Jesus is the Christ and our Savior, and we are not of the devil as others enjoying their sinning without any faith in Jesus.

I have no problem telling others I am a Christians sinner if they ask me. But I do not tell them I am of the devil nor a child of the devil when I do sin, because I don't enjoy it at all.

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. (1 John 3.10)

Even when we are sinning, we still love Jesus and our fellow Christians and are not of the devil.

I've always suspected OSAS sinners didn't think their sinning stinks as much as others, because it's perfumed with grace.

Now you confirm it by saying your sinning isn't as sinful as others, because you now 'hate' it.

He that enjoys committing sin is of the devil; for he that hate committing sin is of God.

What about them not doing righteousness are children of the devil? Are them not doing righteousness in a sad way children of God?

So only Frank Sinatra is of the devil, because he did it his way, and not in a shy way.

God is not a respecter of persons, and while any man sinning with the devil, he is of the devil, whether believer or not, whether liking it or not.

They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Not just they which do such things gleefully.

 

[robert derrick]

We are all Christians that believe Jesus is the Christ, and we are all sinners that need to believe in Him all the time. But we are not sinners like others that do not believe Jesus is the Christ. Before Jesus saved me, I used to try and sin as much as possible, because I liked it so much, but now I hate it when I sin. I love Jesus being in my mind and heart and do not try to sin nor enjoy it, but I still do. When we sin we still believe Jesus is the Christ and our Savior, and we are not of the devil as others enjoying their sinning without any faith in Jesus.

I have no problem telling others I am a Christians sinner if they ask me. But I do not tell them I am of the devil nor a child of the devil when I do sin, because I don't enjoy it at all.

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. (1 John 3.10)

Even when we are sinning, we still love Jesus and our fellow Christians and are not of the devil.

Your OSAS patriots one-up you, by declaring they are now not sinners sinning at all, when they do the works of the flesh like others, because they are not under the law, and the only way to sin is against the law.

So, you are still calling yourself a sinner when sinning, but they rebrand sin, so that it only applies to unbelievers doing the works of the flesh.

While I applaud their machismo, I can at least see some effort of sense in what you are trying to say, though of course in error.

 

[Always Believing]

I've always suspected OSAS sinners didn't think their sinning stinks as much as others, because it's perfumed with grace.

Now you confirm it by saying your sinning isn't as sinful as others, because you now 'hate' it.

He that enjoys committing sin is of the devil; for he that hate committing sin is of God.

What about them not doing righteousness are children of the devil? Are them not doing righteousness in a sad way children of God?

So only Frank Sinatra is of the devil, because he did it his way, and not in a shy way.

God is not a respecter of persons, and while any man sinning with the devil, he is of the devil, whether believer or not, whether liking it or not.

They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Not just they which do such things gleefully.

I am not OSAS. I do not believe I am still forgiven while sinning. It is the mercy of God that I am given opportunity to confess my sinning and be forgiven. I full well know that I take my soul in hand while sinning, even as I used to know I take my life in hand while driving drunk, including the lives of others. I don't make excuses for it but only say that I practice believing Jesus is my Savior all day long, and I believe if I do sin, then I will also be drawn of God to confess from the heart and be forgiven and restored to His salvation joy once again.

I know what you are saying about how the Bible does not talk about enjoying or not enjoying sinning in the verses you are talking about, but I now one thing that I do not seek and enjoy it like I used to. You are saying that anyone sinning is of the devil whether they like it or not, or really want to like I used to, and I am saying that I agree whether we like it or not, we are not forgiven by Jesus wile doing it. The fact of the matter is the same, but I say I am not of the devil when I sin, because I do not sin anymore to enjoy it or to hurt others.

 

[Always Believing]

Your OSAS patriots one-up you, by declaring they are now not sinners sinning at all, when they do the works of the flesh like others, because they are not under the law, and the only way to sin is against the law.

So, you are still calling yourself a sinner when sinning, but they rebrand sin, so that it only applies to unbelievers doing the works of the flesh.

While I applaud their machismo, I can at least see some effort of sense in what you are trying to say, though of course in error.

They are my fellow Christians, but they are not my compatriots if they teach these things.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not OSAS. I do not believe I am still forgiven while sinning. It is the mercy of God that I am given opportunity to confess my sinning and be forgiven. I full well know that I take my soul in hand while sinning, even as I used to know I take my life in hand while driving drunk, including the lives of others. I don't make excuses for it but only say that I practice believing Jesus is my Savior all day long, and I believe if I do sin, then I will also be drawn of God to confess from the heart and be forgiven and restored to His salvation joy once again.

I know what you are saying about how the Bible does not talk about enjoying or not enjoying sinning in the verses you are talking about, but I now one thing that I do not seek and enjoy it like I used to. You are saying that anyone sinning is of the devil whether they like it or not, or really want to like I used to, and I am saying that I agree whether we like it or not, we are not forgiven by Jesus wile doing it. The fact of the matter is the same, but I say I am not of the devil when I sin, because I do not sin anymore to enjoy it or to hurt others.

The problem is that you say you will sin again as if you are a slave to sin. However, the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (See again John 8:34-35). Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. You are confessing… yes…. But you are not forsaking sin because you are declaring you are going to just sin again as a matter of fact when you don’t know the future and you can overcome by God’s power and with the help of His Word. In fact, the Bible gives you different methods to overcome sin. But do you want that way out? It sounds like you simply don’t want to overcome sin when the Bible does talk about that fact in 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1.

Jesus accepted the extended parable of the Canaanite woman. She gave a real world example of how even the dogs can eat of the crumbs of the table. She used real life as a way to compare a spiritual truth. Jesus did not rebuke her for making this parable. I say this because if your belief is true, then there should be a real world example to back it up. In Scripture we know that Jesus is compared to a husband and the church is compared to a bride. Scripture says we are to be like chaste virgins (i.e. faithful). So our relationship with God is compared to like that of a marriage. When we look at real life in a marriage, your belief cannot stand or work. For if a woman cheated on her husband, and she just kept saying she was sorry but she made it clear to her husband that she will sin again because she feels she cannot help it, the husband could not be blamed if he left her based on her unfaithfulness. Meaning, if you employed the same tactics in marriage that you do with God, you most likely will not be married long. No normal relationship tolerates willful unfaithfulness unless they are the type of people who are depraved by sexual immorality.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not OSAS. I do not believe I am still forgiven while sinning. It is the mercy of God that I am given opportunity to confess my sinning and be forgiven. I full well know that I take my soul in hand while sinning, even as I used to know I take my life in hand while driving drunk, including the lives of others. I don't make excuses for it but only say that I practice believing Jesus is my Savior all day long, and I believe if I do sin, then I will also be drawn of God to confess from the heart and be forgiven and restored to His salvation joy once again.

I know what you are saying about how the Bible does not talk about enjoying or not enjoying sinning in the verses you are talking about, but I now one thing that I do not seek and enjoy it like I used to. You are saying that anyone sinning is of the devil whether they like it or not, or really want to like I used to, and I am saying that I agree whether we like it or not, we are not forgiven by Jesus wile doing it. The fact of the matter is the same, but I say I am not of the devil when I sin, because I do not sin anymore to enjoy it or to hurt others.

While many will love to bring up Luke 18:9-14 on how the Tax Collector was justified and he called out unto God to have mercy on him (a sinner), we also have to read Scripture with a balanced perspective.

The Bible also says:

#1. Psalms 66:18
“If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:”

#2. Isaiah 1:15
“And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.”

#3. Isaiah 59:1-2
“Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”

#4. Proverbs 21:13
“Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.”

#5. John 9:31
“Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”

By saying you will sin again because you cannot help it, you are regarding iniquity in your heart. According to Psalms 66:18: The one who regards iniquity in their hear, the Lord will not hear their prayer. Meaning, if you believe you will sin again, you are regarding in iniquity in your heart and the Lord is not really going to hear your prayer of forgiveness. But if you seek to overcome sin and fight and battle to put it away, then that is different.

Choose your path wisely.

 

[Davy]

....

By saying you will sin again because you cannot help it, you are regarding iniquity in your heart. According to Psalms 66:18: The one who regards iniquity in their hear, the Lord will not hear their prayer. Meaning, if you believe you will sin again, you are regarding in iniquity in your heart and the Lord is not really going to hear your prayer of forgiveness. But if you seek to overcome sin and fight and battle to put it away, then that is different.

You are being an absolutist by saying those things, which of course you abuse the Psalms scripture for your own purpose, because we ALL... will still slip up and have future sin even after having believed on Lord Jesus and been baptized. This is why Apostle John gave us what to do in 1 John 1, to repent to Jesus and ask forgiveness when we find that we have slipped up.


Now those who CLAIM they no longer slip up and sin, are wrongly claiming they are their OWN Christ, which is blasphemy.

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

So dream on if you think you can ever... be perfect in your flesh like Lord Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are being an absolutist by saying those things, which of course you abuse the Psalms scripture for your own purpose, because we ALL... will still slip up and have future sin even after having believed on Lord Jesus and been baptized. This is why Apostle John gave us what to do in 1 John 1, to repent to Jesus and ask forgiveness when we find that we have slipped up.


Now those who CLAIM they no longer slip up and sin, are wrongly claiming they are their OWN Christ, which is blasphemy.

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

So dream on if you think you can ever... be perfect in your flesh like Lord Jesus.

I will have to give a reply to this with Scripture when I have more time.

May God bless you.