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Christians Cast into "Hell" for Not Abiding?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Christ4Me, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    It is still serious for why those saints left behind will be severely chastened by the Father for not striving or resisting against sin.

    Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. 14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

    So like the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living and Esau giving up his birthright for a meal, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection. They can never get it back, but they are still sons.

    They will receive stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes per the knowledge that they did not have for not being ready as they are still His "servants" even though denied by Him and left behind when that fire comes on the third of the earth.

    Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
     
  2. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Let me run my thoughts past you sir. The word tartarus which was rendered hell in many versions and only occurs 1 time in scripture is not actually a place, rather a judgment. I submit that the translators rendered that word poorly.

    The other words many render as hell are sheol, hades, and gehinnom, in original language words. The Bible was basically written in 2 languages and by examining the place where Jesus went upon death, both by prophecy, as well as fulfillment, we can discern that sheol and hades are exactly the same place/thing. The prophecy of Jesus' death is found at: Ps 16:10leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    And the fulfillment:Ac 2:31before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. Same place both sheol of Psalms and hades in acts being translated the same way. It might be noted that all in hell will receive a resurrection, and hell will be emptied and with no more need for it, it will be done away with Rev 20:13,14

    Now there is a difference in the other word translated hell in many Bible versions, and that word is Gehennom, although that is a Hebrew word, many times that is combined with the Greek word pyr which is rendered fire in English. It too is a judgment, in fact an everlasting judgment. Perhaps you would agree that Gehenna is actually referring to the lake of fire later brought out in Revelation. Likely you are familiar with what Jesus said would happen to those who sin against the holy spirit? There would be no redemption for them, they would be cast into Gehenna.

    So what is Gehenna, or the lake of fire? It is a permanent judgment, the second death. No more chances, no more existence, permanent death.

    Hope this makes sense to you 4
     
  3. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    I thank you for your submission to consider with the Lord, however, since there has been an ongoing fire as known in Gehenna outside the south wall of Jerusalem on earth, then there is every reason to believe Jesus is referring to another but worse place as Gehenna on the third of the earth. Revelation 8:7-13 & 2 Peter 3:3-18 & Luke 17:26-30

    Granted, it may have continued as an everlasting fire if not for Jesus putting an end to that one that came on the third of the earth when He creates a new heaven and a new earth.

    But there will be another Gehenna outside of New Jerusalem made up of the dead armies of the world that was marching towards Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation, as an abhorring to all flesh for all those who rebelled against Him for all flesh to see when they come to worship Him there in Jerusalem.

    Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

    Since Gehenna was on earth in the past and will be again in the new heaven and a new earth, then the coming Gehenna after the rapture will be on the earth that unrepentant carnal believers and former believers will be found left behind in for not being ready nor willing to go when the Bridegroom comes. Luke 12:40-49 & Luke 21:33-36
     
  4. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Yes sir, very observant of you to know this. So put yourself into the time period, and how Jesus was figuratively using the well known garbage dump outside Jerusalem's walls. Garbage dumps are definitely a fitting symbol of permanent destruction correct? True people like me might scrounge and take some things from them, but the intent of the people who put stuff in there was intending to make it gone forever.

    In Jesus' day it was even more fitting than they are now, as literal wicked people were cast in there, of course they were not cast in there alive, but they were considered unworthy of what we would call a "Christian" burial.

    Were you aware that it even had an earlier fulfillment that made it disgusting in God's eyes?
     
  5. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    I believe that is why those left behind are "damned" as vessels unto dishonor, for not departing from iniquity, but still in His House, vessels of wood & earth.

    That is how and why even former believers are still to be called to depart from iniquity because that foundation is sure as that seal of adoption is too but they can be rejected by the Bridegroom in being left behind and destroyed for defiling the temple of God with physical death, to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

    2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself....

    18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    It is the same thing for why there are "least" in the kingdom of Heaven that breaks the least of His commandments & taches other so.

    Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Can you explain those verses away?

    I had applied them to what you are saying as they are damned in how they become the vessels unto dishonor, but still in His House, in that great House as vessels of wood & earth just as the same as the least are still in the Kingdom of Heaven for why they are still His and thus still saved.

    Yet we are to endure for their sake in calling them to depart from iniquity so they too can have that eternal glory that comes with our salvation and that is to be accepted as that vessel unto honor in His House for derating from iniquity with His help, before the Bridegroom comes. Hebrews 12:1-2 & 2 Timothy 4:18
     
  6. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    I explained it as best I could 4. It could be that we disagree.
     
  7. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    There are no born again in Hell.

    There are no Christ rejectors in Heaven.
     
  8. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    I was disagreeing somewhat with that part " the intent of the people who put stuff in there was intending to make it gone forever." This is not the reason God will cast out the former believers and the unrepentant carnal believers into that future Gehenna on earth. Their inheritance as firstfruits of the resurrection is gone forever for not being ready to go but they are still part of His kingdom of heaven even though they are the least or also known as the vessels unto dishonor as vessels of wood & earth for why they are still in that great house.

    Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    Maybe you meant the works on that foundation is gone forever when they are cast out and die a physical death but their spirits are still saved?

    1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    If so, thank you in advance for the clarification as it would be then, we are on the same page after all.
     
  9. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    Depends if you are referring to the afterlife hell for then I would somewhat agree, since Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was located beneath the earth across a great gulf from the actual hell or if you are referring to the hell that is Gehenna, he valley of slaughter, on earth, for then I would have to disagree.

    Not sure what you mean by that.

    If you are referring to the Kingdom of Heaven for why those carnal saints & former believers left behind are still a part of, then I disagree. They may miss out in being partakes of the firstfruits of the resurrection at the rapture event to be attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Heaven, but the five virgins that had missed out for not being ready, are still part of the kingdom of heaven for that is how that parable started out.

    Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    If you want more scripture as confirming the word here as rightly dividing the word of truth; see post # 48 above.
     
  10. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Go here... for the update.

    No hell:> for the Born Again
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  11. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    I gather then you do not believe the Lake of Fire of Revelation is the Gehenna Jesus was speaking about?
     
  12. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    It says hell will be thrown into the lake of fire in the end. No human, even after being brought to life again, can survive that because they aren’t immortal. (Unless they have Gods Spirit.) It does say the actual fire will be there forever (maybe as a memorial of caution?) but I do not believe men are born immortal.
     
  13. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    I know I said this to you somewhere before. You should look into the Vss about outer darkness. They’re in parables, in Mathew. It doesn’t sound like unbelievers go there to me but unprofitable servants.
     
  14. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    Correct only because Gehenna in scripture has always been a reference to a place on earth where the dead corpses are burning and the worms die not.
     
  15. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    If their spirits were alive in hell after death, then why not in the lake of fire?

    When God brings someone into existence by His word, can He nullified his existence by His word? I do not think so. He cannot go back on His word.

    His judgment on them is eternal as His promise on those saved are eternal for why we will never fear being separated from God every again by sin.

    In light of eternity in living with God the Father in His kingdom of Heaven, then there is a lake of fire outside that pleasant eternity that is eternity of torment. If there were no eternal torment, then where would His judgment be since His judgment is eternal for all to see as those saved are?
     
  16. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so…do you think men are born eternal beings? Or do you think they only become eternal after God raises them again?
     
  17. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    Note 46 for how those not ready are cut off to be with the unbelievers on earth for when that fire comes on the earth.

    Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
     
  18. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Well-Known Member

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    Their spirits are eternal in hell and then they are resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment to be judged eternally in that state to be thrown in the lake of fire along with Satan and his angels.
     
  19. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to pick your brain here. What, in that passage above, do you think the fewer and lesser stripes are? And what do you make of the parable about the man thrown into prison because he didn’t forgive, where he was told he wouldn’t come out until he paid the last farthing? Do you think maybe that prison is the “outer darkness?”
     
  20. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    So then, all men have eternal life?
     
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