Christians Cast into "Hell" for Not Abiding?

[bbyrd009]

I agree as well in regards to our growth.



Did you skip this reference or had forgotten about it when mentioned earlier in another post to another member? Here it is again.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

What would be the point of resurrecting them when their spirits were already in hell? Just cast hell along with them into the lake of fire.

But they were resurrected and cast into the lake of fire afterwards for not having their names in the Book of Life. It is not that big of a leap to believe that they too are burning in the lake of fire forever and ever day & night too with the devil.

It is our sensibility that is offended, but we are okay with society in keeping hardened criminals behind bars for life and even give the death penalty. No one in their right mind would let them go and invite them to live in their homes, but we do have some states letting them go now as signs of the times, but in no way are they letting them live in their homes. Makes me wonder if their families are living in homes are out of that city or even out of that state.

God's promise of a good eternal life is assured by having His judgment as eternal so that nobody will mess with His kingdom ever again.

You would think Satan would think twice after being let out of the pit for a thousand years, but no, he staged another rebellion. One may see why His judgment on Satan and every other unbelieving sinner is forever so the good He has promised us in the Kingdom of Heaven is forever.

ok, have a nice day

 

[stunnedbygrace]

the problem with Knowing Stuff might be mostly that we memorize some phrase that speaks to us, and then…establish? a mental image of how that must apply, which closes our brains to any other new understanding.

You see that all through the Bible. Even with the disciples before the Spirit and power - will you at this time restore the kingdom? We always read or hear prophecy and think we understand it because we read the letter but the word is spirit and truth.

 

[Christ4Me]

ok, have a nice day

You have a nice day too.

 

[bbyrd009]

is why Paradise is now in Heaven

Now you’re just making stuff up!

 

[Christ4Me]

Now you’re just making stuff up!

How is that when I just showed you the scriptures in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4?

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

How can you not see why I say Paradise is now located in Heaven after His ascension because that is the only way we can get there is by Christ Jesus.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It is very possible that everlasting fire in Matthew 18:8 has brought about false teachings about believers losing salvation, for why they believe OSAS is not true.

If you consider the fire that is sent on a third of the earth ( Revelation 8:7-13 ) where that place is the "valley of slaughter" hence Gehenna on earth ( Jeremiah 7:32 ), where the bodies of the saints are left unburied, Revelation 18:1-24, then Jesus is referring to Gehenna as that "hell" on earth.

"Everlasting fire" would end after the great tribulation when Jesus makes a new heaven and a new earth where there will be no longer any sea; Revelation 21:1.

There is a consequence for not abiding in Him, as in denied by Him for still being in iniquity for when He comes, but He still abides in carnal saints & former believers left behind. 2 Timothy 2:11-13 as they will be "damned" as vessels unto dishonor, wood & earth, but still in His House 2 Timothy 2:18-21

This is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else, but nevertheless those who die left behind, their spirits are with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 & Revelation 2:18-25 & 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 They shall wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation; Revelation 6:9-11 Revelation 7:9-17

Very astute observation, the earth will be on fire. Actually from outer space, it will look like a Lake of Fire.
Gehenna was a perpetual burning dump outsude of Jerusalem. It gave Jews an idea of Hell. Dead animals would burn and those near the edge and even within the burning dump. It would still allow worms to survive, hence the idea of a place where the worm never dies was coined.
And "never" actually means not for an age.
Aionios has variable meanings.
When it is applied to our temporal realm that will pass away, it means ages, generations, lifetimes, epoch. When it is applied to God it means without beginning or ending. And our salvation then means without end. Everlasting can ne translated age-lasting or age-during.
You pointed out that during the GT, 1/3 of the planet will be on fire and it will be in the Middle East. Remember an angel is given the key to the Bottomless Pit, fire and smoke come out of the earth like a furnace. Demonic locusts come out and torture mankind for five months. Here is a key verse:
"For a fire is kindled in my anger,
And it burns to the depths of Sheol,
Devours the earth and its yield
And sets on fire the foundations of the mountains". Deut. 32:22
Hold that thought.

It is well known that the earth's crust contains caverns, water and molten lava. We can assume that there are deep caverns and most assuredly a bottomless pit in the center. When pressure builds, fire and brimstone come to the surface as in a volcanic eruption. Sounds like Deut. 32:22.
Now it just so happens that the wilderness outside of Jerusalem is part of a massive Great Syrian/African Rift, 3700 miles long from Syria to Mozambique, passing through Lebonon, the Sea of Galilee, The Dead Sea, the Red Sea and beyond. It contains thirty volcanies, some active, the rest dormant. In the Jordan Valley there was extensive volcanic activity up to about 3700 years ago. There is evidence of cone-shaped craters and lava sheets. There are still thermal hot springs near the fault lines today. The Dead Sea was also called the Lake of Fire and Smoke. Sodom and Gomorrah existed in the NE area of the Dead Sea. Other names were The Sea of Sodom, The Sea of Lot and The Devil's Sea.
We can imagine that this event could amount to a super-volcanic eruption spliting a fissure in the earth and forming a huge lava lake and people getting thrown into as well.
The second and third trumpet sounds in Rev. 8 describe this event.
"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son if Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness and will throw them into the furnace of fire ..." Matt. 13:40-42 This is on earth!
Ezek.20:47, 48 describes this fire in earth.
Isaiah 13:9-13; 34:8-11
Is. 24:17-22 states the inhabitants ON EARTH fall into the pit (or fissure) in the earth. Some try to climb out ... "but are caught in a snare".

added: Christians will not be cast into the Lake of Fire - just unbelievers.

 

[Christ4Me]

Very astute observation, the earth will be on fire. Actually from outer space, it will look like a Lake of Fire.
Gehenna was a perpetual burning dump outsude of Jerusalem. It gave Jews an idea of Hell. Dead animals would burn and those near the edge and even within the burning dump. It would still allow worms to survive, hence the idea of a place where the worm never dies was coined.
And "never" actually means not for an age.
Aionios has variable meanings.
When it is applied to our temporal realm that will pass away, it means ages, generations, lifetimes, epoch. When it is applied to God it means without beginning or ending. And our salvation then means without end. Everlasting can ne translated age-lasting or age-during.

Thanks for sharing that.

You pointed out that during the GT, 1/3 of the planet will be on fire and it will be in the Middle East.

To clarify, I believe the fire will be on the entire western hemisphere for why the USA is not prophesied as one of the world's amies marching unto Jerusalem. The description of fallen Babylon in Revelation 18:1-24 does not align with the Vatican at all in this case when the merchants ships of trade are standing a far off from her burning and the dead bodies of the left behind saints are found within for not being ready. Revelation 14:13 does seem to hint how their works will follow them into the dust; kind of like burning works that deny him off of that foundation.

Remember an angel is given the key to the Bottomless Pit, fire and smoke come out of the earth like a furnace. Demonic locusts come out and torture mankind for five months. Here is a key verse:
"For a fire is kindled in my anger,
And it burns to the depths of Sheol,
Devours the earth and its yield
And sets on fire the foundations of the mountains". Deut. 32:22
Hold that thought.

It is well known that the earth's crust contains caverns, water and molten lava. We can assume that there are deep caverns and most assuredly a bottomless pit in the center. When pressure builds, fire and brimstone come to the surface as in a volcanic eruption. Sounds like Deut. 32:22.
Now it just so happens that the wilderness outside of Jerusalem is part of a massive Great Syrian/African Rift, 3700 miles long from Syria to Mozambique, passing through Lebonon, the Sea of Galilee, The Dead Sea, the Red Sea and beyond. It contains thirty volcanies, some active, the rest dormant. In the Jordan Valley there was extensive volcanic activity up to about 3700 years ago. There is evidence of cone-shaped craters and lava sheets. There are still thermal hot springs near the fault lines today. The Dead Sea was also called the Lake of Fire and Smoke. Sodom and Gomorrah existed in the NE area of the Dead Sea. Other names were The Sea of Sodom, The Sea of Lot and The Devil's Sea.
We can imagine that this event could amount to a super-volcanic eruption spliting a fissure in the earth and forming a huge lava lake and people getting thrown into as well.
The second and third trumpet sounds in Rev. 8 describe this event.
"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son if Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness and will throw them into the furnace of fire ..." Matt. 13:40-42 This is on earth!
Ezek.20:47, 48 describes this fire in earth.
Isaiah 13:9-13; 34:8-11
Is. 24:17-22 states the inhabitants ON EARTH fall into the pit (or fissure) in the earth. Some try to climb out ... "but are caught in a snare".

I believe there will be a meteor the size of a mountain called Wormwood that will cause this fire you are talking about to erupt from the earth upon impact. I would imagine that the super volcano at Yellowstone will erupt also, along with other volcanos. So I can see how Isaiah 24:17-22 has the state of California falling into that San Andreas fault line and who knows what else since that is the area bordering on that ring of fire.

Thanks for sharing. I am hoping in Jesus Christ while praying to Him to have me worthy and keep me worthy by abiding in Him & His words by looking to Him to help me lay aside every weight & sin daily and be willing to go in order to escape what is coming on the earth; Luke 21:33-36

 

[amadeus]

the problem with Knowing Stuff might be mostly that we memorize some phrase that speaks to us, and then…establish? a mental image of how that must apply, which closes our brains to any other new understanding.

There is only One Immortal
No one has ever gone up to heaven
eternal from aion: a space of time, an age

so see, “eternal life” is presented to…a cult-of-sol sensibility, who will natch interpret via their filter, but see how you are not like qualifying your statements at all or anything? Presenting your pov as facts? Bc it absolutely has to be that way, right?

How to get rid of filters we have put into place...? Hmmm?

 

[GEN2REV]

A message can be lost in translating from the Greek into English.

Examples are Matthew 5:21-22 & Matthew 5:29-30 & Matthew 18:8-9 where Matthew 5:22,29-30 & Matthew 18:9 has "hell" & "hell fire" derived from the Greek Word "geena" or Gehenna as it is better known as the valley of slaughter by the Lord.

Jeremiah 7:32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

Matthew 18:8 has the word everlasting fire derived from the Greek word "aionios" which Strong's Concordance defined as "from aiwn - aion 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began)."

I deem everlasting fire is what threw scholars off because Jesus was referring Gehenna to a place of slaughter on earth; not the actual hell or lake of fire. He was warning about a hell that was coming on earth that believers will find themselves cast into for not being found as abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Jesus said this fiery destruction was coming on earth; Luke 17:26-30.

The apostle John reported it as on a third of the earth; Revelation 8:7-13

Peter warned about it too for why we are to endure in these latter days; 2 Peter 3:3-18

That is why we are to pray for His help to not be ensnared by the cares of this life down here so we can escape that coming fire on the earth ( Luke 21:33-36 & Luke 12:40-49 )

You missed a couple spots.

John 15:2
John 15:6

 

[GEN2REV]

Of course Christians cannot be cast into Hell (Gehenna = the Lake of Fire) because their names are written in the Book of Life.

Names can be blotted out of the Book of Life; and they're not put into that book until the process of salvation begins.
Revelation 3:5

Some names are never written in the Book.
Revelation 17:8

So if they're blotted out, they're cast into hell ... or otherwise destroyed.

 

[Christ4Me]

You missed a couple spots.

John 15:2
John 15:6

Not really. I had referenced it in relating to Luke 12:40-49 for why Jesus is warning the believers to be ready or else, be left behind as a castaway.

The thing about Luke 12:40-49 though is how they are still called servants as belonging to Him for why they will get stripes per the measure of knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes for not having the knowledge for not being ready. Then He goes on to the more one is given, the more is required.

Like it or not, Jesus is appearing as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ at the rapture event to judge His House first; and those not ready will die when left behind but their spirits will be with the Lord to await their resurrection after the great tribulation when He comes as the King of kings.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus is warning believers that if they do not forgive their brethren, neither will God forgive them Matthew 6:14-15 & they will not be allowed to hold fellowship in that City of God above at the Marriage Supper table. Since the accuser of our brethren will be cast out from Heaven when the doors are shut. then that Gehenna is on earth that the non-abiding believers will be cast into that for not forgiving the brethren, but there will be a payment in full, as there will be a coming out. Matthew 5:21-26

They are the garbage dump at the rapture event for why there are vessels unto dishonor, vessels of wood & earth, that are in His House 2 Timothy 2:20 That is why departing from iniquity is how a believer is ready to be received as that vessel unto honor; 2 Timothy 2:21 This is why the least are called the least in the kingdom of Heaven for how they break even the last of His commandments and teach other so. Matthew 5:19

This is why they will be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the generations following as they will teach their children to forgive those who asks for forgiveness.

We agree on much here Chris, but a bit of refining. We believe the first resurrection has already happened, a careful examination of what you call the rapture might help, notice how the dead in Christ were already risen before his return 1 Thes 4:16, I know it looks to be the same time, but going into 17 shows a definite difference in time.
Another verse that refers to them tells us: “Each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.” (1 Corinthians 15:20-23) So in the resurrection some would be raised up before certain others.
Jesus gave signs of his presence (parousia) in Mat 24, and what it really means is that he became King. We believe this happened in 1914, and that started the last days shown in that chapter.

On the same token, when he became King, the first thing he did was to cleanse the heavens: Rev 12:7, those last days are the time period from the time Jesus took the crown, till his return to remove satan and his horde from the earth, hence the woe for the earth for that time period. v 12
All of us see the changes in our society since that time period, the advances we have made did not just evolve Chris, rather the infinitely superior demonic spirit forces being here on earth influence us greatly.

We agree those anointed ones who go to heaven will be the bride of Christ, and that our forgiveness is based upon our being forgiving. Jesus made that clear in his model prayer.

The casting of those who go to the dump, or gehenna or the lake of fire, occur at the end of the millennial reign of Christ after satan has had his next short period to gather those who will side with him Rev 20:7

 

[GEN2REV]

Like it or not, Jesus is appearing as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ at the rapture event

I absolutely love it.

It's just not Biblical.

Most False Doctrines would be wonderful, they're just not in scripture.

I go with God's Word. To do otherwise is to fool oneself and cause massive problems for your future.

 

[GEN2REV]

You missed a couple spots.

John 15:2
John 15:6

Not really. I had referenced it in relating to Luke 12:40-49 for why Jesus is warning the believers to be ready or else, be left behind as a castaway.

No, you didn't reference the throwing of them into the fire and their being burned.

It's either all the Truth or nothing at all.

 

[Christ4Me]

We agree on much here Chris, but a bit of refining. We believe the first resurrection has already happened, a careful examination of what you call the rapture might help, notice how the dead in Christ were already risen before his return 1 Thes 4:16, I know it looks to be the same time, but going into 17 shows a definite difference in time.

Thank you for sharing, but I do not discern what you have read in context of those two verses at all. The message is that resurrection has not happened yet.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When you compare this with the scripture reference below, the resurrection of the firstfruits of O.T. saints & N.T. saints at the rapture event is for attending the sit down at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven. Those thrust out are saved believer denied by Him for still being in iniquity.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Another verse that refers to them tells us: “Each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.” (1 Corinthians 15:20-23) So in the resurrection some would be raised up before certain others.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. KJV

By His resurrection, Christ has become the firstfruits of those that have slept as inferring O.T. saints. But since there is an order for how and when the firstfruits shall be resurrected is how the O.T. saints will be resurrected along with N.T. saints and living abiding saints in meeting the Lord in the air. So that rapture event is the firstfruits of the resurrection when meeting the Lord in the air.

Those resurrected after the great tribulation are designated as having gone through the great tribulation. After Jesus has defeated the world's armies marching against Jerusalem and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years, is when those saints that went through the great tribulation are resurrected first before the rest of the dead are at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:1-15

Jesus gave signs of his presence (parousia) in Mat 24, and what it really means is that he became King. We believe this happened in 1914, and that started the last days shown in that chapter.

I do not see how you can apply that for whatever had happened in 1914.

On the same token, when he became King, the first thing he did was to cleanse the heavens: Rev 12:7, those last days are the time period from the time Jesus took the crown, till his return to remove satan and his horde from the earth, hence the woe for the earth for that time period. v 12
All of us see the changes in our society since that time period, the advances we have made did not just evolve Chris, rather the infinitely superior demonic spirit forces being here on earth influence us greatly.

I agree that things have been getting worse and worse but not sure why you designated as starting in 1914 if I understood you correctly. In Paul's epistles to the Galatians, one can get worse and worse by sowing to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption. Society that rise and fall due to immorality does not negate how bad it is for every believer that sows to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption, getting worse & worse.

We agree those anointed ones who go to heaven will be the bride of Christ, and that our forgiveness is based upon our being forgiving. Jesus made that clear in his model prayer.

The casting of those who go to the dump, or gehenna or the lake of fire, occur at the end of the millennial reign of Christ after satan has had his next short period to gather those who will side with him Rev 20:7

We do not fully agree when those disqualified as reprobates for being in unrepentant iniquity for why they were left behind. The carnal saints & former believers left behind are His anointed too for why He is faithful in the keeping of the souls of those left behind for He still abides.

These be they that are Christ's at His coming along with new believers after the rapture event for when they will be resurrected after the great tribulation..

 

[Christ4Me]

I absolutely love it.

It's just not Biblical.

Most False Doctrines would be wonderful, they're just not in scripture.

I go with God's Word. To do otherwise is to fool oneself and cause massive problems for your future.

What most believers that believe in the rapture before the great tribulation are wrong about, is how they think every saved believers will be taken.

The rapture is when God will judge His House first when He appears as the Bridegroom to take those abiding in Him with Him to heaven above.

It will not be great for those carnal saints & former believers left behind for not being ready as there will be weeing and gnashing of teeth like Esay weeping bitterly over the selling of his birthright for a meal or like the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living & can never get it back, but he is still son.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not really. I had referenced it in relating to Luke 12:40-49 for why Jesus is warning the believers to be ready or else, be left behind as a castaway.

The thing about Luke 12:40-49 though is how they are still called servants as belonging to Him for why they will get stripes per the measure of knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes for not having the knowledge for not being ready. Then He goes on to the more one is given, the more is required.

Like it or not, Jesus is appearing as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ at the rapture event to judge His House first; and those not ready will die when left behind but their spirits will be with the Lord to await their resurrection after the great tribulation when He comes as the King of kings.

just dont be too disappointed imo when it doesn’t work out like you have planned, k

 

[Christ4Me]

No, you didn't reference the throwing of them into the fire and their being burned.

It's either all the Truth or nothing at all.

Then how can their spirits be saved as thru fire in 1 Corinthians 3:15 in referring to that day when every believer's work will be judged on that foundation in 1 Corinthians 3:13?

Why does it matter to give stripes to those left behind unless to punish them for not being ready as found abiding in Him so they will not be doing that in leading those in the millennial reign when those left behind are resurrected at the end of the great tribulation in spite of that fire being sent on the earth? Luke 12:40-49

Unless you rightly divide the word of truth in those passages in context of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Luke 12:40-49 at this link in the KJV, you are not acknowledging all the truth in scripture.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 3:10-17, Luke 12:40-49 - King James Version

 

[bbyrd009]

What most believers that believe in the rapture before the great tribulation are wrong about, is how they think every saved believers will be taken.

The rapture is when God will judge His House first when He appears as the Bridegroom to take those abiding in Him with Him to heaven above.

yeh, prolly not, ok?
“rapture” from harpazo is the worst sort of exegesis imo, i would find the other one…in Songs, and Luke, i think?

It will not be great for those carnal saints & former believers left behind for not being ready as there will be weeing and gnashing of teeth like Esay weeping bitterly over the selling of his birthright for a meal or like the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living & can never get it back, but he is still son.

well, but he was accepted back with a kiss and a ring and everything though

 

[Christ4Me]

just dont be too disappointed imo when it doesn’t work out like you have planned, k

Seeing how being always ready is about abiding in Him and His words in following Him as His disciples to avoid being left behind, this can also be used for being ready for when we die too since death can strike at any moment so putting off repentance for tomorrow is not wise.

Not that those saints who have died in unrepentant iniquity are unsaved, since their spirits are with the Lord in Heaven, but they will have to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation.

I will not be disappointed when I am relying on Him every day for abiding in Him by helping me to lay aside every weight & sin no matter what comes, death or the rapture.