Christians Cast into "Hell" for Not Abiding?

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Christ4Me

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yeh, prolly not, ok?

There is no probably not. Note verse 6 in John 15:1-8 this is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or not in Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25

“rapture” from harpazo is the worst sort of exegesis imo, i would find the other one…in Songs, and Luke, i think?

To be ready for the Bridegroom when He resurrected the dead saints and those abiding in Him to meet him in the air... can be described as teh event of our gathering unto Him or the rapture for short.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

well, but he was accepted back with a kiss and a ring and everything though

Right since he is still son even though he can never get that first inheritance back.
 

GEN2REV

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Then how can their spirits be saved as thru fire in 1 Corinthians 3:15 in referring to that day when every believer's work will be judged on that foundation in 1 Corinthians 3:13?

Why does it matter to give stripes to those left behind unless to punish them for not being ready as found abiding in Him so they will not be doing that in leading those in the millennial reign when those left behind are resurrected at the end of the great tribulation in spite of that fire being sent on the earth? Luke 12:40-49

Unless you rightly divide the word of truth in those passages in context of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Luke 12:40-49 at this link in the KJV, you are not acknowledging all the truth in scripture.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 3:10-17, Luke 12:40-49 - King James Version
Easy.

They cannot mean what you believe them to mean if scripture exists that completely contradicts them.

Simple as that. So something has to give, right?

That means you have to rethink what you thought was True in light of John 15:2 & 6. Because clearly, as proven by those verses, saved people can be "taken away from the True Vine (Christ), cast aside, withered, thrown into a fire and burned."

No two ways about it.

I'm not presenting an alternative opinion to the equation. I'm supplying existing variables that you are not accounting for - existing scripture that contradicts your current conclusions.

That's math, right?
 
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Christ4Me

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Easy.

They cannot mean what you believe them to mean if scripture exists that completely contradicts them.

Simple as that. So something has to give, right?

That means you have to rethink what you thought was True in light of John 15:2 & 6. Because clearly, as proven by those verses, saved people can be "taken away from the True Vine (Christ), cast aside, withered, thrown into a fire and burned."

No two ways about it.

I'm not presenting an alternative opinion to the equation. I'm supplying existing variables that you are not accounting for - existing scripture that contradicts your current conclusions.

That's math, right?

I have applied your references in the past to still align with my references.

You are the one not applying my references to show that it was not what I believed the message was about so as to align with your references for what you ae saying to be true.

Thank you for replying, brother, but as long as you keep doing that, the progress in this discussion is going nowhere.
 

GEN2REV

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I have applied your references in the past to still align with my references.

You are the one not applying my references to show that it was not what I believed the message was about so as to align with your references for what you ae saying to be true.

Thank you for replying, brother, but as long as you keep doing that, the progress in this discussion is going nowhere.
Saved people can be "taken away from the True Vine (Christ), cast aside, withered, thrown into a fire and burned." - for not abiding.

No two ways about it.

John 15:2
John 15:6
 
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Christ4Me

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Saved people can be "taken away from the True Vine (Christ), cast aside, withered, thrown into a fire and burned." - for not abiding.

No two ways about it.

John 15:2 & 6

Yet still saved albeit missing out on the Marriage Supper with the Bridegroom;

Matthew 25:1-13 The kingdom of heaven is likened unto those ten virgins where five were foolish in not being ready for the Bridegroom but still in that kingdom of heaven.
 

bbyrd009

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To be ready for the Bridegroom when He resurrected the dead saints and those abiding in Him to meet him in the air... can be described as teh event of our gathering unto Him or the rapture for short
yes, and Hitler can be described as a progressive guy who outlawed smoking in public places, etc, too :)
 

GEN2REV

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Yet still saved albeit missing out on the Marriage Supper with the Bridegroom;

Matthew 25:1-13 The kingdom of heaven is likened unto those ten virgins where five were foolish in not being ready for the Bridegroom but still in that kingdom of heaven.
You're adding to scripture.

The Bible doesn't say "but still in that kingdom of heaven." anywhere.
 
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Christ4Me

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You're adding to scripture.

The Bible doesn't say "but still in that kingdom of heaven." anywhere.
It did when Jesus described the kingdom of heaven as likened unto those ten virgins. So it was not about entering the kingdom of heaven for they were the kingdom of heaven but it was about being ready for the Bridegroom or miss out on the wedding reception in that kingdom of heaven.
 

GEN2REV

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It did when Jesus described the kingdom of heaven as likened unto those ten virgins. So it was not about entering the kingdom of heaven for they were the kingdom of heaven but it was about being ready for the Bridegroom or miss out on the wedding reception in that kingdom of heaven.
Likened means it was a made up story to make a point.

Nowhere does the Bible show the disciples asking Jesus to explain what He really meant by that story like in the parables He presents.

And did they get in or not?

The answer is NO. They did not. They were not prepared because they had not kept their lamps maintained with the oil of faith. Just as those who embrace Pre Trib will not be prepared for the end that is to come.
 

Christ4Me

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Likened means it was a made up story to make a point.

I ask you to set aside your belief and reconsider because Jesus was describing what that kingdom of heaven was like.

Nowhere does the Bible show the disciples asking Jesus to explain what He really meant by that story like in the parables He presents.

True, but Jesus did not explain every parable like Matthew 13:33

And did they get in or not?

The ten virgins were the kingdom of heaven but five were foolish in being too late for that wedding reception with the Bridegroom in that kingdom of heaven.

The answer is NO. They did not. They were not prepared because they had not kept their lamps maintained with the oil of faith. Just as those who embrace Pre Trib will not be prepared for the end that is to come.

They were the kingdom of heaven for why the kingdom of heaven were likened unto them. it is just that five were too late for the Bridegroom.

Not meaning it is a small thing, when other scriptures depict being left behind as weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

bbyrd009

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There is no probably not. Note verse 6 in John 15:1-8 this is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or not in Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25



To be ready for the Bridegroom when He resurrected the dead saints and those abiding in Him to meet him in the air... can be described as teh event of our gathering unto Him or the rapture for short.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



Right since he is still son even though he can never get that first inheritance back.
well...you are cult of sol right now, so im not sure how much of a conversation we might have on that...as is prolly becoming obvious
so i guess when you are done with the teacher thing, we might go over that again maybe?
 

Christ4Me

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well...you are cult of sol right now, so im not sure how much of a conversation we might have on that...as is prolly becoming obvious

When cults take verses out of context, one can correct them by rightly dividing the word of truth because scripture cannot go against scripture as there can be no lie of the truth.

So it may be obvious to you that I am of the cult of sol, but you have yet to teach me by the scripture that this is so.

so i guess when you are done with the teacher thing, we might go over that again maybe?

Isn't giving a judgment requires a teaching for why you are giving a judgment? How else am I to learn to repent or to be better?

In the story of the prodigal son, even though he was welcomed back ( as you pointed out given a robe & ring, a teaching point, yes? ) the father went into the field to the elder son to convince him to come in. The elder son complained but the Father said all that he has was his, which inferred that it was not the same for the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living. The elder son still had his inheritance and more, but the father wanted him to come in and celebrate the return of the prodigal son because he is still son & he is home now.
 

Robert Gwin

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Thank you for sharing, but I do not discern what you have read in context of those two verses at all. The message is that resurrection has not happened yet.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When you compare this with the scripture reference below, the resurrection of the firstfruits of O.T. saints & N.T. saints at the rapture event is for attending the sit down at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven. Those thrust out are saved believer denied by Him for still being in iniquity.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.



1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. KJV

By His resurrection, Christ has become the firstfruits of those that have slept as inferring O.T. saints. But since there is an order for how and when the firstfruits shall be resurrected is how the O.T. saints will be resurrected along with N.T. saints and living abiding saints in meeting the Lord in the air. So that rapture event is the firstfruits of the resurrection when meeting the Lord in the air.

Those resurrected after the great tribulation are designated as having gone through the great tribulation. After Jesus has defeated the world's armies marching against Jerusalem and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years, is when those saints that went through the great tribulation are resurrected first before the rest of the dead are at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:1-15



I do not see how you can apply that for whatever had happened in 1914.



I agree that things have been getting worse and worse but not sure why you designated as starting in 1914 if I understood you correctly. In Paul's epistles to the Galatians, one can get worse and worse by sowing to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption. Society that rise and fall due to immorality does not negate how bad it is for every believer that sows to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption, getting worse & worse.



We do not fully agree when those disqualified as reprobates for being in unrepentant iniquity for why they were left behind. The carnal saints & former believers left behind are His anointed too for why He is faithful in the keeping of the souls of those left behind for He still abides.

These be they that are Christ's at His coming along with new believers after the rapture event for when they will be resurrected after the great tribulation..

You have said a lot sir, let me try to address it all: 1at paragraph. Do you agree that those "in Christ" are baptized with holy spirit? I am going to continue with that line of reasoning because your second paragraph contradicts that. There are no OT saints in my opinion because they were not baptized with holy spirit as that was done first on pentecost of 33. Most of God's prophets were long gone.

You need to give your point on paragraph 3, as I certainly agree with what the verses say.

Jesus was the first resurrected of the firstfruits we agree para 4

para 5, disagree none received the holy spirit.

Agree with 6, although these of the great crowd are not baptized with holy spirit

7, as I said we believe Jesus was enthroned as King in 1914, the end of the appointed time of the nations. the signs he gave concerning his presence have occurred since then. WW#1 Oct 1914

8 agree

9 Jesus return is to remove the wicked, so simply put they are gone sir, everyone remaining has been judged a sheep.

10, after the war, new scrolls will be opened, so at this point, I agree there will be new believers.
 

Christ4Me

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You have said a lot sir, let me try to address it all: 1at paragraph. Do you agree that those "in Christ" are baptized with holy spirit? I am going to continue with that line of reasoning because your second paragraph contradicts that. There are no OT saints in my opinion because they were not baptized with holy spirit as that was done first on pentecost of 33. Most of God's prophets were long gone.

How Were the O.T. Saints Were Saved?
 

bbyrd009

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So it may be obvious to you that I am of the cult of sol, but you have yet to teach me by the scripture that this is so
i was kinda on the fly there, could have put that better maybe :)
so, by way of explanation, imo “cult” is not a bad thing, we are all involved in some culture or other, you gotta start somewhere i guess, and Jesus gave the highest praise to the Roman Centurion, I have not seen such faith in anyone of Israel

Isn't giving a judgment requires a teaching for why you are giving a judgment? How else am I to learn to repent or to be better?
so, i said that because you are declaring it, and it’s a popular position in Christianity that im not like anxious to relieve you of or whatever, don’t find love until you are ready and all that, and right now iron sharpens iron likely seems like a good process to you? I know it worked for me for like forty years lol
Anyway, to put it another way, get your fill of eating meat imo, and sharpening your friends’ countenances, who knows but that might satisfy you forever! But if it pales, there is another way too

In the story of the prodigal son, even though he was welcomed back ( as you pointed out given a robe & ring, a teaching point, yes? ) the father went into the field to the elder son to convince him to come in. The elder son complained but the Father said all that he has was his, which inferred that it was not the same for the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living. The elder son still had his inheritance and more, but the father wanted him to come in and celebrate the return of the prodigal son because he is still son & he is home now.
ok, and that is pertinent how, sorry? im still on my first cuppa lol
 

Christ4Me

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i was kinda on the fly there, could have put that better maybe :)
so, by way of explanation, imo “cult” is not a bad thing, we are all involved in some culture or other, you gotta start somewhere i guess, and Jesus gave the highest praise to the Roman Centurion, I have not seen such faith in anyone of Israel


0kay


so, i said that because you are declaring it, and it’s a popular position in Christianity that im not like anxious to relieve you of or whatever, don’t find love until you are ready and all that, and right now iron sharpens iron likely seems like a good process to you? I know it worked for me for like forty years lol
Anyway, to put it another way, get your fill of eating meat imo, and sharpening your friends’ countenances, who knows but that might satisfy you forever! But if it pales, there is another way too

The hard part is not knowing whether a believer is able to digest the meat or still on milk. I leave that to the Lord since either way He is the One that causes the increase, meaning He helps them to receive the truth as in ears that hear & eyes that see, milk or meat.

ok, and that is pertinent how, sorry? im still on my first cuppa lol

Relating the prodigal son to the saints that were not ready that got left behind for why they are still His, even though missing out on being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection just as the prodigal son gave up his inheritance on wild living.
 

bbyrd009

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The hard part is not knowing whether a believer is able to digest the meat or still on milk.
yeh, i figured the same way for like forty years? But fwiw that might change on you at some point
i would rather never eat meat again

Relating the prodigal son to the saints that were not ready that got left behind for wh
ha well this one too, i guess, although it changed a long time ago, for me; i want to get left behind now :)
34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together: One will be taken and the other left.”e37“Where, Lord?” they asked.

Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.”

the point being that we likely cannot help but be speaking at cross-purposes right now, i guess
 
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Webers_Home

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John 15:1-9 depicts Jesus as a vine, his followers as branches, and his
Father as a vine dresser.

Seeing as how Matt 16:18 testifies that the gates of Hades are unable to
confine Jesus' church (a.k.a. his body), then I think it safe to assume that
every Christian on earth, regardless of denominational affiliation, counts as a
branch. So:

1» Have all Christians been baptized into Jesus' body per 1Cor 12:13?

NO

2» Have all Christians been sealed per Eph 1:13 and Eph 4:30?

NO

3» Have all Christians undergone the birth per John 3:3-8?

NO

Dead wood.
_
 
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Christ4Me

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yeh, i figured the same way for like forty years? But fwiw that might change on you at some point
i would rather never eat meat again


Meat is for discerning good & evil.

Milk is just growing in the knowledge of Him.

I have noticed with myself that what the Lord was trying to correct me, I was not able to accept until I had to see that not every thing the church had taught me was Biblical.

Since we prophesy in part and know in part also, I see milk and meat at all stages in life. So it really boils down to God causing the increase as in enabling us to see and hear since we are the work of His hands. More reasons to give Him thanks for the truth we had received from Him & thannks for the hope in Him that He will continue to do so. 2 Timothy 4:18.


ha well this one too, i guess, although it changed a long time ago, for me; i want to get left behind now :)
34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together: One will be taken and the other left.”e37“Where, Lord?” they asked.

Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.”

the point being that we likely cannot help but be speaking at cross-purposes right now, i guess

Actually the KJV reading has body for carcass and eagles for vultures in Luke 17:37.

Looking at the Greek, since a message can be lost in translation, "sunago" is the Greek word for "gathered together" in English which is with hospitality to entertain or to resort in. The Greek word for eagles is "aetos" as also referring to winglike flight. So those taken are with wing-like flight to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, thus escaping the fiery calamity that is coming on the earth, & the eventual great tribulation when the beast wages war on the saints to kill them with the sword & hunger, you will not want to be left behind, brother. 2 Peter 3:3-18 & Luke 17:26-37
 
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