Christians - Remember the Fallen as VICTIMS, not Heroes of War!
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I've never been in the military. My grandfather was in WW1.
My Dad couldn't go, he had a punctured eardeum from childhood.
My Uncles who I don't remember were in the Navy.
I know one of them was a cook and opened his own bakery.
I don't know anything about war and battle except what I seen on tv.
I don't know what it's like to put myself on the line for another.
I am a child and ignorant in these things.
And from what I seen, war should be a last resort to save what is Holy and Good.
To curb crimes against humanity without committing those same crimes in the process.
Most crimes come from those that run the governments. the so-called authorities that have no problem feeding us to wolves.
as long as it food in their belly and money in their pockets.
But who pays the price?
Not the ones committing the crimes, it's always the innocent.
Casualties of War they are called.. As if they don't have a name or a life..
But this spiritual war.. it's personal.
And I never felt so offended by things going on in the world.
And it's coming at us rapid speed, we don't even see half of what's being thrown at us.
They can manipulate the way you feel, the way you think..
they can turn that good fruit sour if you aren't aware of the poisoning
This world today is filled with HYPOCRITES.
And the LIES..
But you want to know the greatest deception of all?
All of it is FAKE.
There is no truth in it.
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
The only thing that is REAL is the Spirit in us that is attached to God himself.
Abide in me.
But the world itself is filled with deceptions and lies.
The veil is lifting and we can see.
I'm scared..but I have Faith and I have Hope
and these are the greatest gifts of defence God could have supplied us with.
I just wonder how much it's going to take for people to wake up.
Those old dead bones need to start rattling
and we're going to have to rattle them.
How?
Follow where He leads you.
My Dad couldn't go, he had a punctured eardeum from childhood.
My Uncles who I don't remember were in the Navy.
I know one of them was a cook and opened his own bakery.
I don't know anything about war and battle except what I seen on tv.
I don't know what it's like to put myself on the line for another.
I am a child and ignorant in these things.
And from what I seen, war should be a last resort to save what is Holy and Good.
To curb crimes against humanity without committing those same crimes in the process.
Most crimes come from those that run the governments. the so-called authorities that have no problem feeding us to wolves.
as long as it food in their belly and money in their pockets.
But who pays the price?
Not the ones committing the crimes, it's always the innocent.
Casualties of War they are called.. As if they don't have a name or a life..
But this spiritual war.. it's personal.
And I never felt so offended by things going on in the world.
And it's coming at us rapid speed, we don't even see half of what's being thrown at us.
They can manipulate the way you feel, the way you think..
they can turn that good fruit sour if you aren't aware of the poisoning
This world today is filled with HYPOCRITES.
And the LIES..
But you want to know the greatest deception of all?
All of it is FAKE.
There is no truth in it.
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
The only thing that is REAL is the Spirit in us that is attached to God himself.
Abide in me.
But the world itself is filled with deceptions and lies.
The veil is lifting and we can see.
I'm scared..but I have Faith and I have Hope
and these are the greatest gifts of defence God could have supplied us with.
I just wonder how much it's going to take for people to wake up.
Those old dead bones need to start rattling
and we're going to have to rattle them.
How?
Follow where He leads you.
When Jesus Christ came the hope was to save all peoples Souls.
Carnal man has not Salvation for his Soul, he has no well spring to drink from and that's why he abides in the works of Man.
No one is worthy of God but for they who are truly born again of the Holy Spirit, such a one is like Nathaniel a true Israelite as Jesus pointed out was worthy of such.
Jesus Christ said that he was not of this world, why ? because this not the Kingdom of God.
The so called Zionist are of this world but Biblical Zion is not what they seek at all.
The other day my Jews for Jesus mate pointed out once again that he had no time for Spiritual Israel, but for the demand of the State claiming to be Israel is everything, the Holy Spirit means totally nothing to him, it all about getting this people back in the Land regardless. because he claims they are Gods people ? when clearly they are not worthy of God in regards to the OT or to Jesus Christ in fact. He claims that spiritual Israel and Israel are two different things, one being Goyim spiritual Israel and Blood Israel ? So ho were Jesus disciples then
. then he claims we both are Goyim ? well I have a blood line that is more Jewish than the PM of the State of Israel not to mention maybe 90 % of any Jew living in the State.Fact is it's all about the Holy Spirit first and foremost in ones life or you are not worthy at all regardless in fact.
He claiming that he can do whatever he wants regardless is wrong, because Jesus pointed out Nathaniel was a true Israelite in fact for good reason.
Nathaniel was not a backsliding ignorant slob, not to mention in Church you will never hear about Nathaniel preached but he is a key point of it all, one has to be like him to be worthy of the Kingdom of God and what did Jesus say that he would see ?
The carnal man takes pleasure bathing in his septic tank and that's why we have all the deceptions of this world casting delusions, such are like the weeds that the parable of the sower points out.
As to the people who gave their lives in wars, you may see Their name lives ? I question that somewhat in a way, because I would think ones Soul lives is the point of a Christian, your name ? I do not give regard to names on walls or the dead in that way. Jesus Christ was the God of the living and not the dead. I look to the future for people to be in Jesus Christ and give thanks to them Christians Souls now and past on to heaven.
On another point in regards to that one claims to of won a war ? Well well well yes but what about the struggle ? such is never ending due diligence and sadly on this point our generations have failed us badly, so collectively we will reap what we have sown due to such ignorance. clearly our Governments have turned their backs on Jesus Christ in fact, not to mention the dereliction of disregard of the people that have been hornswoggled by the cunning of such Anti-Christ.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
There is a book in heaven with names written in it.When Jesus Christ came the hope was to save all peoples Souls.
Carnal man has not Salvation for his Soul, he has no well spring to drink from and that's why he abides in the works of Man.
No one is worthy of God but for they who are truly born again of the Holy Spirit, such a one is like Nathaniel a true Israelite as Jesus pointed out was worthy of such.
Jesus Christ said that he was not of this world, why ? because this not the Kingdom of God.
The so called Zionist are of this world but Biblical Zion is not what they seek at all.
The other day my Jews for Jesus mate pointed out once again that he had no time for Spiritual Israel, but for the demand of the State claiming to be Israel is everything, the Holy Spirit means totally nothing to him, it all about getting this people back in the Land regardless. because he claims they are Gods people ? when clearly they are not worthy of God in regards to the OT or to Jesus Christ in fact. He claims that spiritual Israel and Israel are two different things, one being Goyim spiritual Israel and Blood Israel ? So ho were Jesus disciples then
Fact is it's all about the Holy Spirit first and foremost in ones life or you are not worthy at all regardless in fact.
He claiming that he can do whatever he wants regardless is wrong, because Jesus pointed out Nathaniel was a true Israelite in fact for good reason.
Nathaniel was not a backsliding ignorant slob, not to mention in Church you will never hear about Nathaniel preached but he is a key point of it all, one has to be like him to be worthy of the Kingdom of God and what did Jesus say that he would see ?
The carnal man takes pleasure bathing in his septic tank and that's why we have all the deceptions of this world casting delusions, such are like the weeds that the parable of the sower points out.
As to the people who gave their lives in wars, you may see Their name lives ? I question that somewhat in a way, because I would think ones Soul lives is the point of a Christian, your name ? I do not give regard to names on walls or the dead in that way. Jesus Christ was the God of the living and not the dead. I look to the future for people to be in Jesus Christ and give thanks to them Christians Souls now and past on to heaven.
On another point in regards to that one claims to of won a war ? Well well well yes but what about the struggle ? such is never ending due diligence and sadly on this point our generations have failed us badly, so collectively we will reap what we have sown due to such ignorance. clearly our Governments have turned their backs on Jesus Christ in fact, not to mention the dereliction of disregard of the people that have been hornswoggled by the cunning of such Anti-Christ.
Hugs
The video is mostly incorrect, humans are capable of love similar to Jesus' love. Even secular mothers can have love for their children, and fathers. The fact that some people love us enough to risk their lives to save ours is a Godly type of love.
This should be an obvious fact to you when you consider the Civil War to free slaves. People literally gave their lives to free black people from being mere property. It wasn't merely to save life, it was very near to Jesus' love in that they gave their lives out of love for others, so that black people weren't treated as less than human. This type of love is near to freeing from sin that Jesus performed on the cross. Think about that when you watch the video.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
There is a new theory out there called the 1619 Project.
Have you heard of it.
They say that history goes to the victor. They are already changing history.
If you speak out against it or reject it, they censor you. They try to shame you. They call YOU a racist.
And the children are being "enslaved" in their minds by this critical race theory agenda.
These "children" are as the black people the civil war was faught for and won.
The question is...
Do we have enough love "Jesus Love" in us to save them?
These "children" are the victims. And once they become free from this delusion, they fight back.
They stand on truth, They reach out and save others..
becoming heroes themselves.
What are we fighting for?
What is goal?
Yes to hell to get to heaven! We are perhaps already there and someone is now turning up the heat. How will we endure the Reality of the shadow seen in Nebuchadnezzar's fiery furnace [Dan 3] when it attains to seven times more than it was wont to be heated? Those three did it right but consider the fate of the strongest soldiers who only approached that fire?
As bad as this in spite of our best and most sincere efforts on behalf others?
"Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:
Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness." Ezek. 14:19-20
@APAK
This is an interesting thread to consider.
I think when I accept that what the Bible says is flatly true, there is no more question for me.
"No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend."
In that case, to lay down one's life for their friend demonstrates having the greatest love that any man can have.
The objection would be that this cannot be so if that man is not born again, and loving with God's love. That seems logical, however, it conflicts with the simplicity of Jesus' statement.
As we endeavor to live Godly Christian lives, isn't that what we are endeavoring to do? To lay down our own lives, in order to care for and to serve others?
Much love!
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Jde 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Too many people got the wrong kind of fear.
They are too afraid of getting themselves dirty. they lack faith.
by their righteousness...
We can not save others with our righteousness.
Only God can save those through His righteousness working, warning, pulling from the fire,
through us.
I hope your feeling better amadeus.
Much Love
Hugs
Too many people got the wrong kind of fear.
They are too afraid of getting themselves dirty. they lack faith.
by their righteousness...
We can not save others with our righteousness.
Only God can save those through His righteousness working, warning, pulling from the fire,
through us.
I hope your feeling better amadeus.
Much Love
Hugs
Yes, only God!
Bless you sister for inquiring. The pneumonia is, I believe, on the mend... now if only I could get a good night's sleep...LOL
Thoughtful comments indeed Mark. Let me answer as I usually do without highlighting line by line your statements, as most do.
There is a clear conflict of this wide open world view of self-sacrifice and heroism versus the spiritual limited God-centric view.
The world (the ungodly and selfish heathens) makes the rules of warfare through their might and power, and their natural urge to take and plunder. From the start then the first victim is always the truth. It is replaced by a constant stream of lies and propaganda. All wars, civil, national and international and so-called World wars operate this way. No one has time to even think at the start at least. and are swept into this chaos, and are duped as sheep to follow the Flag and country to be a part of something patriotic and huge. No one wants to look bad, odd or different in front of their friends, aye? It is the classic psychological bandwagon APPEAL, and it is effective on a mass scale. Everybody is doing it, or everyone is on board with it, are you coming with us, are you for us or against us, are you a patriot or a coward, why don't you take one for the team!
Fear gets the best of many and they succumb to peer pressure and the pressures brought to bear from their government and the experts in this chaotic contrived state. The COVID lie is the most recent war of evil on the people, and it's global in scope.
Those that died of this 100% novel germ, or 50% germ, or 10% germ and 90% artificially generated as a computer model, or 0% germ and 100% modelled, along with this synthetic and toxin false vaccine are not to be honored as SPIRITUAL heroes that stand against true evil. That would be a slap in the face of a true believer and Christ.
Yes, some are already being honored as heroes, those dead and those that 'healed' or tendered for the sick and dying. The 'Tick Tock' nurses and doctors come to mind. Would you want to be a part of honoring them as true heroes against evil, when they are really ignorant victims? If you are of the world then yes you would, every time and place you could. You are a patriot, remember, and the world loves you for it....see how long that idolization and Day in the Sun will last...it is always fleeting of those of the world. With Christ, it is always sustained and permanently honored to glorify the Father.
Do you think our Father in heaven would be praising them for dying using their selfish wills and not his own? And yes, out of their hearts and their OWN, not agape, love, they truly wanted to sacrifice themselves and some even lost their lives in the process. This carnal genuine love begins with their OWN will and ended with it...no will of God at all.. It is temporary, inconsistent and never God fearing.
Don't you think there should be distinct line drawn here, one for God's view and people and one for the world view and its people. I do, most definitely!
When the world commits men/women to war, of killing people directly in the classical sense, or secretly as in this COVID thing, they are AUTOMATICALLY dubbed heroes from the time they sign their lives away, before they 'hit the beach' or are in the ER so too speak. Now tell me how do you discriminate and this is essential, to clearly separate the spiritual view of honor ,and to a hero in the service of God and one who just signed up for economic stability, to hide for the law, to leave their marriage responsibilities, to have some 'shoot 'em up' fun, to become a self-made hero and become famous for self etc. I cannot live quietly, knowing that selfish unbelievers especially, NOT ALL. most. are all placed into the same boat as true spiritual heroes of God. I'm a believer literally and spiritually for Christ's sake and I cannot let this mixing of the world that thrives on selfishness and evil to stand and be praised as if they were believers. We are neve the same species!
Religious denomination leaders do not go where I've gone here, because it's too messy, and would be too unpopular with their MANY lukewarm believers ready to cry shame, monster and how could you, my friend just got killed overseas, or my mother who is nurse, died of COVID assisting other, she selflessly took her life etc....and shouts and boos to their spiritual leader for being insensitive, mean spirited unkind etc.
Now to address the verse in John again, as I did with another poster.
"No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend."
Taken from both my input and another outside source...lost the ref...
John 15:13
“Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” Now of course this type of love deserves honor of course, but as a hero, is the real question??
Let's break down John 15:13 shall we?
Agape is the Greek word for this kind of selfless love or the love of the Father. It is purely spiritual. To love someone like this is altogether different than worldly, natural love. That kind of love may have its place but is also right at home in the dominion of darkness. Natural love is on the other side of the same coin as hate. It is conditional. It can evaporate when the emotional payoff is gone.
#2 “Has no one than this:”
Western culture is obsessed with what it calls love. Romance is on everyone’s mind all the time. Listen to the radio. Watch a movie. See how the culture celebrates and even worships passion. For this kind of love, men and women will do some outlandish things, not the least of which is abandoning their families for the next lover. But compared to the true love of God, this love is merely emotionalism and psychology. This greater love is more powerful than anything else on earth. This love does not and cannot exist in the same vessel as hate. This kind of love can only be learned from God.
#3 “to lay down one’s life…”
“This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters” (1 Jn 3:16). Anything else might as well be hate and the sign of unbelief. “Laying down one’s life means literally dying for someone, but starts with simply dying to self for someone, for instance in giving one’s possessions to someone who needs them (1 Jn 3:17).
#4 “…for one’s friends.”
Who are your friends? The question is similar to the Pharisee’s question to Jesus: “Who is my neighbor” (Lk 10:29). With this kind of love, even one’s enemies are to be considered friends. As you give your life, you say, “Father, forgive them. They do not know not what they are doing” (Lk 23:34).
Bless you,
APAK
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I don't think we're on the same page here. This isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when a person makes a rational choice to risk or even believe their life will be lost, in order to save someone else, someone who needs saving, this the Bible calls the greatest love a man can have. I don't argue with that.
This isn't kissy kissy stuff. Jesus is our highest example, and the highest example of His life is the obedience of His crucifixion. And Scripture holds this very type of act as the greatest example of love in humans.
Much love!
the kissy stuff is part of this human love.....not intended to be the focus at all. Please is that all you can get from my post?
No. I've been on your page already many times and moved on to the next page that you are not wanting to go to and read for some reason. And no, I do not concur at all with your view of this particular scripture.
Further you are busy making my entire OP centered around a false axiom that the love of the world is the same as a believer's in Christ who can demonstrate agape love. Maybe you are avoiding this subject either because you do not know what this means or do not believe it exists; and then what do I consider you?
Additionally, you do not want to acknowledge that the world goes to war for evil purposes and are victims of Satan and evil purposes in executing his plans.
You do not want to acknowledge that there is a clear different where a Believer's love, with the potential of demonstrating agape love, and never by a non-believer who cannot love even his enemy for selfless reasons and for the Creator.
I will state one of your statements directly this time, as it says a lot to me about who you are, or apparently are..This is a stunning and a revealing statement coming from a professing Christian.
You said:
"I'm talking about when a person makes a rational choice to risk or even believe their life will be lost, in order to save someone else, someone who needs saving, this the Bible calls the greatest love a man can have. I don't argue with that."
Really, ".....a person making a rational choice...." says it all. These are the words of a non-believer and heathen. Harsh reaction but this is my truth of it.
You know, when I lay my life for another, I NEVER NEVER make a RATIONAL choice to give my life and weigh the consequences. That is a SELFISH ACT of ones OWN carnal will. Mine on the other hand is spontaneous FROM THE HEART! It is with the Spirit of Christ who resides there. I yield my will entirely in this act! IT IS FROM FAITH, not you lack of faith as you describe it.
THE BIBLE NEVER CALLS YOUR TYPE of SELFLESSNESS the greatest love a man can produce. Please do not twist scripture to your own selfish mind.
Yours selflessness proceeds from a corrupt and conceited mind. I will wager you will faint or flee at the first sight of death, and from true self-sacrifice for the cause of Christ.
Thank you for making my case with your words. You have condemned yourself here...of course I am but one spirit and mind in Christ
Who are you Mark...an impersonator of the truth?
I'm talking about who we consider to be our heros. That was the thread topic, was it not?
And I'm saying that to downplay how the Bible defines love as you disqualify those who you do not see being Christian, and acting in the capacity as a Christian, may be a mistake.
I'm just one who is willing to call some heroes whom you would not, that's all. The posts about love, and laying one's life down, were to help define what love is.
Consider me however you want, everyone else does.
Apparently you don't see the passage I've pointed to as being the straightforward declaration that I do.
Much love!
You don't think Jesus made a rational choice to act His faith and set His face to go to Jerusalem? Don't you make rational choices to do what you believe right?
The only difference between us on this point is, I think, self-awareness. You want to impugn the fact that I say I choose. But what is your option? Are you saying you act on instinct? Hard wired into you? That's not love at all. That's only drawing your hand back from a hot stove. Instinct.
I say I choose because that's what people do, unless you think the choices are all made for you. There is always that moment of choice, and it often happens in the blink of an eye. Blink and you'll miss it. But we choose. Those are your choices, either you choose, or someone chooses for you.
Was not your assertion that the unbeliever cannot be a hero, because the unbeliever is unable to do anything of real value, or did I misunderstand you? And I'm replying to you that the unbeliever is yet able to demonstrate the greatest love according to Scripture, as they lay down their lives for their friends.
There's really no need to unload on me. We're just talking about who we may think of as heroes.
You can choose what you will think about that.
Much love!
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And no need to name-call, either. Not very heroic, if you ask me!
Again . . .
"Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend."
If you have a problem with this statement, take it up with God. He said it, not me.
Jesus demonstrated His love in dying for His enemies!
Much love!
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