Christians Should Only Pray To God In Jesus' Name
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It is most definitely not OK. Jesus is our only mediator/intercessor when we pray. The Body of Christ intercede for one another, but the dead are out of earshot.
I think it is OK to pray for those who deceased but can't see any benefit of praying to them.
Am I right in assuming that you think it is okay because it's their right to pray as they want to ?
Amen Lively Stone
How does one pray for someone already dead? What does one say? We can express our hope that the deceased is in His presence, if we don't know or have that assurance that the person is saved, but that is a prayer for ourselves.
Well i don't pray to the Saints or Mary but i do like to use them to help me pray.
And i find this helpful if one wants to pray in depth or maybe i like the way they can help guide me, like i maybe stumped and there life stories can help. they are great people and we can learn much from there life.
If in times of great trouble etc one may be able to recall the great strength they had in Christ and that can help us push on and give our utmost in Christ come what may..
I love Christ, and also his Saints, i hold dear, as we should be united in a way, one for one and all for one. and no they are not dead to me at all. they have only passed from this life to glory.
Just talking to a dead saint instead of Jesus is circumventing what he has established as the way to God. Dead saints have no input into our lives. It is good to remember the lives of our friends and loved ones who walked with God and have died, but to address them, hoping for help in any way from them is wrong. They cannot help us pray. If you have trouble finding the words to say to God, then ask Holy Spirit to pray for you. He knows your spirit and is in touch with it better than yourself.
Romans 8:26
And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words.
Romans 8:26
And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words.
If prayer for the deceased is not beneficial, then how is baptism for the deceased beneficial?
Catholics don;t pray to Mary. They ask Mary to pray for them.
If you read the words of the Hail Mary you can see that it is a petition to Mary addressing her andasking her to add her prayers to our own.
Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus
Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
Amen
It acknowledges who Mary is and asks her to pray for us who are all sinners both now and when we are at the end of our life.
A couple of months ago I posted a link to a vidio testimony of a catholic priest who had had a newar death experience and was spared the fires of Hell because of the intercession of Mary. That spoke volumes to me about how important Mary is in intrceeding for us and what a great advocate she is.
At no popint however is Mary to be palced before Christ. Roman Catholics and Anglo-Catholics wtill pray to the father through the Son as is correct and only ask mary or any other saint to add their prayers to their own. It makes sense since the saints are in Heaven now and are closer to God than we are thus their prayers are stronger than ours.
If you read the words of the Hail Mary you can see that it is a petition to Mary addressing her andasking her to add her prayers to our own.
Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus
Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
Amen
It acknowledges who Mary is and asks her to pray for us who are all sinners both now and when we are at the end of our life.
A couple of months ago I posted a link to a vidio testimony of a catholic priest who had had a newar death experience and was spared the fires of Hell because of the intercession of Mary. That spoke volumes to me about how important Mary is in intrceeding for us and what a great advocate she is.
At no popint however is Mary to be palced before Christ. Roman Catholics and Anglo-Catholics wtill pray to the father through the Son as is correct and only ask mary or any other saint to add their prayers to their own. It makes sense since the saints are in Heaven now and are closer to God than we are thus their prayers are stronger than ours.
It isn't! Christians do not do it, nor should they.
That is prayer. We aren't to communicate with the dead. It is futile---they have no ears for us. Isn;t praying to your only mediator between God and yourself, Jesus, enough? Why all the added stuff? That is religiosity at its worst.
What's the point? It's not biblical.
Talking to dead saints does nothing. Mary has no power to hear nor answer your petitions. Nothing in scripture teaches this, but does warn against idolatry, which praying to dead people really is.
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
(Rom 8:26-27)
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
(1Ti 2:5)
Tis sufficient por moi.
(Rom 8:26-27)
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
(1Ti 2:5)
Tis sufficient por moi.
29 If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?30 And why should we ourselves risk our lives hour by hour?31 For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, that I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done in you.32 And what value was there in fighting wild beasts—those people of Ephesus —if there will be no resurrection from the dead? And if there is no resurrection, “Let’s feast and drink, for tomorrow we die!” 33 Don’t be fooled by those who say such things, for “bad company corrupts good character.”34 Think carefully about what is right, and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don’t know God at all.
1 Cor 15:29-34 (NLT)
Seems Paul disagrees with you, but then I am not surprised, there seems to be much you misunderstand.
Mary isn't dead. She ascended bodily into Heaven and all those saints who are in heaven are very much alive in the body of Christ and now reside in the Church Triumphant. They are not dead.
Asking them to pray for you is not a prayer in its self.
Asking them to pray for you is not a prayer in its self.
You are right Jiggy. There are many Churches out there that actually baptize on behalf of the dead. I just read an article recently about baptizing by proxy on behalf of a family members parents who had died after the Holocaust...
http://news.yahoo.co...-162346450.html
But this scripture has been misinterpreted...
1 Corinthians 15
[sup]12[/sup] But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? [sup]13[/sup] If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. [sup]14[/sup] And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. [sup]15[/sup] More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. [sup]16[/sup] For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. [sup]17[/sup] And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. [sup]18[/sup] Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. [sup]19[/sup] If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
The verse above speaks of those who believe that there is no resurrection from the dead...the argument here is that...if Christ has not been raised from the dead, we are still in our sins...those who preach Christ risen and God raising him from the dead are also preaching something that is useless to those who believe and the faith they have in Jesus becomes futile. Those who have fallen asleep [dead] in Christ are also lost. ....Keep those thoughts in mind...
[sup]20[/sup] But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. [sup]21[/sup] For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. [sup]22[/sup] For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. [sup]23[/sup] But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. [sup]24[/sup] Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. [sup]25[/sup] For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [sup]26[/sup] The last enemy to be destroyed is death. [sup]27[/sup] For he “has put everything under his feet.”[sup][c][/sup] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. [sup]28[/sup] When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
[sup]29[/sup] Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
Verse 29 then goes back to the first argument about those who believe that there is no resurrection...
"What will those do who are baptized for the dead?
meaning - Christ, if he has not risen [assuming that he is dead]
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?" using again, their belief that there is no resurrection...the question asked is - "why are people being baptized for those who are dead.?" [that is...if the dead are not raised - like Jesus]
[sup]30[/sup] And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? [sup]31[/sup] I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. [sup]32[/sup] If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
Paul then goes on to say that it would have been pointless for them to have endured so much hardship and danger if the message that they bought were not true..."If the dead are not raised"
Romans 6 says:
[sup]3[/sup] Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? [sup]4[/sup] We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
[sup]5[/sup] If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. [sup]6[/sup] For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [sup]7[/sup] because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Blessings!!!
http://news.yahoo.co...-162346450.html
But this scripture has been misinterpreted...
1 Corinthians 15
[sup]12[/sup] But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? [sup]13[/sup] If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. [sup]14[/sup] And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. [sup]15[/sup] More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. [sup]16[/sup] For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. [sup]17[/sup] And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. [sup]18[/sup] Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. [sup]19[/sup] If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
The verse above speaks of those who believe that there is no resurrection from the dead...the argument here is that...if Christ has not been raised from the dead, we are still in our sins...those who preach Christ risen and God raising him from the dead are also preaching something that is useless to those who believe and the faith they have in Jesus becomes futile. Those who have fallen asleep [dead] in Christ are also lost. ....Keep those thoughts in mind...
[sup]20[/sup] But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. [sup]21[/sup] For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. [sup]22[/sup] For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. [sup]23[/sup] But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. [sup]24[/sup] Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. [sup]25[/sup] For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [sup]26[/sup] The last enemy to be destroyed is death. [sup]27[/sup] For he “has put everything under his feet.”[sup][c][/sup] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. [sup]28[/sup] When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
[sup]29[/sup] Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
Verse 29 then goes back to the first argument about those who believe that there is no resurrection...
"What will those do who are baptized for the dead?
meaning - Christ, if he has not risen [assuming that he is dead]
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?" using again, their belief that there is no resurrection...the question asked is - "why are people being baptized for those who are dead.?" [that is...if the dead are not raised - like Jesus]
[sup]30[/sup] And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? [sup]31[/sup] I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. [sup]32[/sup] If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
Paul then goes on to say that it would have been pointless for them to have endured so much hardship and danger if the message that they bought were not true..."If the dead are not raised"
Romans 6 says:
[sup]3[/sup] Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? [sup]4[/sup] We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
[sup]5[/sup] If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. [sup]6[/sup] For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [sup]7[/sup] because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Blessings!!!
That passage is misunderstood, obviously.
We are not called to baptize for the dead and it is not done in any Christian church I know of that preaches the truth of the word of God. This is Mormon doctrine. Paul wasn't talking about the Christian act of baptism, but the pagan act of baptizing for the dead so they will have a good afterlife!
Paul's point was simple. He was pushing the point that the resurrection is a reality, and is going to occur upon Jesus return, and that even the pagans believe this, otherwise why do they (pagans) baptize for the dead?
.
Paul's point was simple. He was pushing the point that the resurrection is a reality, and is going to occur upon Jesus return, and that even the pagans believe this, otherwise why do they (pagans) baptize for the dead?
He was referring to the pagan act of baptism for the dead to make His point about belief in the resurrection. He didn't mention the actual pagan belief, but the pagans of a city near Corinth, called
Eleusis was the home of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. Homer mentioned it in his 'Hymn to Demeter'. Corinth was a major hub and was heavily influenced by many customs and religions. It is highly likely that the Corinthians were being influenced by what the pagans in Eleusis practiced, which was a baptism for the dead.
Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say 'we'.
He was referring to the pagan act of baptism for the dead to make His point about belief in the resurrection. He didn't mention the actual pagan belief, but the pagans of a city near Corinth, called
Eleusis was the home of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. Homer mentioned it in his 'Hymn to Demeter'. Corinth was a major hub and was heavily influenced by many customs and religions. It is highly likely that the Corinthians were being influenced by what the pagans in Eleusis practiced, which was a baptism for the dead.
Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say 'we'.
I've heard of dead babies being Baptised. My cousin lost her son at 18 months and he was baptised on the day of his funeral. I did not think it was neccessary but my Grandma was adamant that he wouldn't go to Heaven without it.
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