Church Bashing

[marks]

I just showed you two verses. You asserted your opinion without any verses. So who has spoken correctly?

I'm sorry, I guess I assumed you knew the verse reference. Here it is:

Matthew 25:46 KJV
46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

"everlasting punishment" here is the same aionos used in "life eternal", which should be translated the same, "everlasting life". If the one continues, the other continues. If the one ends, the other ends.

"punishment" here is the same word John used, "fear hath torment". He wasn't saying "fear annihilates you". Fear brings great distess, maybe another way to put it?

And, very oddly, you hit like on my previous post where I said Eternal Torment is a nasty idol…but when I gave the verses to show it, you didn’t like that?

You answered his question. Many many questions of accountability remain unanswered. I don't agree that this interpretation of Scripture means I'm worshiping a false god. But I applaud that you answered.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The people of the last days are well described in scripture. One thing I notice a lot of is pride and they are unreasonable, unteachable, arrogant, despise authority, willful, mean spirited, contrariness, quick to show offense. You will find all that and lots more in church people too, not just out in the world. The message is to avoid such people, and their ideas, if you can. We are called to live peaceably with all people as far as we are able.

Romans 12:17-19
New King James Version
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.

18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

To be in a church, you have to be able to get along with others.

Much love!

 

[dev553344]

Meanwhile, love for the brethren is how we're supposed to know we're true!

Much love!

I'm really annoyed still at the moment. I'll work on it, but I think I need time to allow myself to be angry.

 

[Taken]

Would have?

Would have. I never experienced being in a Church whereby the Pastor was preaching to accept homosexuality.

 

[marks]

I'm really annoyed still at the moment. I'll work on it, but I think I need time to allow myself to be angry.

I think the idea is resolve it by sunset.



Hugs!

 

[David H.]

You definitely need to find a different church!!

And when someone paints a church that does not fit your description of evil as though they did, that is VERY WRONG. Slanderous, evil.

And that is what this thread is about.

Who's work is that?

That is why I make a distinction between the institutional church, and the ecclesia the assembly of believers. We have this picture of the church being brick and mortar, but the true church is a body of Believers. That is where you misunderstand me all the time. I Am not harping on the true church, but the thing which man has built that poses as the true church, an institution of man, built by the will of man.

 

[Taken]

@marks
Love the Lord God with all your heart.
Love everyone is the command, but remember that Love is extended to Friends and Enemies, and not possible “without” the Power of God IN a person.

An Enemy may become a Friend by the change of the Enemy to become a brother in Christ, not rather, to become Friends by adaption to the Enemy.

TRUTH is the Line. Sometimes the Truth is hard, unpleasant, threatening...and when the TRUTH is Not in Agreement with Christ Jesus;
The Yoking together is not advocated.

Churches mimic The Lords Yoking. Once Joined WITH the Lord, always in Agreement with the Lord. Churches expect the same once a person Joins.

Many Church’s have umpteen Doctrines and Rules...that even their own Preaching Pastors/Priests/Clerics can not keep, as if, they are clever enough to kept their secrets hidden, it is okay.

Sort of difficult to agree to join with hypocrites, and disturbing to find out one in a higher position is a hypocrite, and more disturbing when men discover and continue to stay joined.

Divisions and Disagreements will always be the Condition of a Corrupt world.

Praise God for His WAY.

Hope you had a blessed Christmas,
Taken

 

[Bob Estey]

Gotcha.
A smooth talker, that can make wickedness sound like you want to be the first in line to hop on the long black train.

He would tell us (in so many words) that homosexuals were just different than the rest of us, and that it was wrong to object to what they were doing.

Would have. I never experienced being in a Church whereby the Pastor was preaching to accept homosexuality.

I would have enjoyed watching you take him to task.

 

[marks]

That is where you misunderstand me all the time.

Just be clear and reasonable, that's all I ask.

Naturally I'm not talking here about "building bashing". Overgeneralization only serves the one who uses it, but does not serve the truth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hope you had a blessed Christmas,
Taken

I did! Thank you! There doesn't seem to be the "perfect church", and when we're looking at "the best of a bad bunch", I'll still say, it's on me to bring love and light.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

He would tell us (in so many words) that homosexuals were just different than the rest of us, and that it was wrong to object to what they were doing .

Clever, which could be forwarded to “be wrong to object to what he was doing”...

I would have enjoyed watching you take him to task.

 

[Taken]

I did! Thank you! There doesn't seem to be the "perfect church", and when we're looking at "the best of a bad bunch", I'll still say, it's on me to bring love and light.

Much love!

Agree.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm sorry, I guess I assumed you knew the verse reference. Here it is:

Matthew 25:46 KJV
46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

"everlasting punishment" here is the same aionos used in "life eternal", which should be translated the same, "everlasting life". If the one continues, the other continues. If the one ends, the other ends.

"punishment" here is the same word John used, "fear hath torment". He wasn't saying "fear annihilates you". Fear brings great distess, maybe another way to put it?




You answered his question. Many many questions of accountability remain unanswered. I don't agree that this interpretation of Scripture means I'm worshiping a false god. But I applaud that you answered.

Much love!

Okay. If it makes sense to you that everlasting life means alive forever and everlasting death also means alive forever, carry on.

 

[marks]

Okay. If it makes sense to you that everlasting life means alive forever and everlasting death also means alive forever, carry on.

No comment about the words in the Bible?

Carry on to where? Each to our own "opinions"? Or should we let those opinions be guided by "what God wrote"?

Of course, it doesn't say here, "everlasting death", it says "everlasting punishment", along the lines of torment, not execution. Not me saying that. The Bible is saying that. Jesus said that.

So I guess He's the One to Whom you say, Carry on . . .

And in your idea that the Bible means the kind of death you are thinking of, you'll find some other passages won't make sense either.

I suggest leave it as you find it, just believe.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No comment about the words in the Bible?

Carry on to where? Each to our own "opinions"? Or should we let those opinions be guided by "what God wrote"?

Much love!

Lol! Okay, you take your interpretation of the one you posted and don't worry about fitting in the one I posted. That'll work. But the one I posted helps inform my thoughts on the one you posted, and the reverse is not true - the one I posted does not help inform your thoughts on the one you posted.

 

[GaryAnderson]

I hope you all had a nice Christmas.
I went to a special service at the church on the Christmas Eve and it was wonderful.
We had a theater play from the children, then the liturgy, then Eucharist and we finished it with a few special songs.
Christ is born! Give him the glory.

 

[Taken]

No comment about the words in the Bible?

Carry on to where? Each to our own "opinions"? Or should we let those opinions be guided by "what God wrote"?

Of course, it doesn't say here, "everlasting death", it says "everlasting punishment", along the lines of torment, not execution. Not me saying that. The Bible is saying that. Jesus said that.

So I guess He's the One to Whom you say, Carry on . . .

And in your idea that the Bible means the kind of death you are thinking of, you'll find some other passages won't make sense either.

I suggest leave it as you find it, just believe.

Much love!

There are different punishments, that apply to different people.
And the worst punishment (IMO) hangs on men’s persecution of men who believe., ie. Gods Wrath mixed with His cup of Indignation.

Temporary punishment, God separates from earthly men who believed then disobeyed...or rejected Him. (Ie temporary tasting, but not eating)
God saves souls of some living men, and not others.
God saves souls of men after their bodily death, who heartfully believe at the time of their bodily death. (Ie endured) (But who did not convert by confession).
The Body’s life (blood) is dead at physical death. Yet, torments affect the living souls in Hell, separated from God.
At Judgement, Some have Gods (breath life) in the soul, returned to God, and their body and soul destroyed, burned.
* Then there is that curious thing about some being forever cast into “outer darkness”...and the weeping and gnashing of teeth...”their soul forever alive and separated from God”? Seems to indicate an eternal separation, eternal torment, fully aware forever of their separation with no reprieve.
^^ Gods cup of indignation?

And of course the fallen angels, alive forever in a burning pit, eternal torment.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No comment about the words in the Bible?

Carry on to where? Each to our own "opinions"? Or should we let those opinions be guided by "what God wrote"?

Of course, it doesn't say here, "everlasting death", it says "everlasting punishment", along the lines of torment, not execution. Not me saying that. The Bible is saying that. Jesus said that.

So I guess He's the One to Whom you say, Carry on . . .

And in your idea that the Bible means the kind of death you are thinking of, you'll find some other passages won't make sense either.

I suggest leave it as you find it, just believe.

Much love!

Second death - everlasting punishment.
Both have to fit together or you don't have all the word of God.
So just toss one out...right?

 

[marks]

Second death - everlasting punishment.
Both have to fit together or you don't have all the word of God.
So just toss one out...right?

Yeah sure! That seems to be the common solution to a lack of harmony in the text, just drop this, change that, yep, that's all too common.

You were dead in transgression and sin, which of necessity means you existed.

Scriptural definition of words will make a big difference.

Matthew 25:41 KJV
41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46 KJV
46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This says what it says, and needs to be accepted for what it says, not denied.

And yes, like you point out, not at the expense of another passage. So when you come to see death as meaning someone stops existing, that's going to be a problem, because that's not how the Bible speaks of death.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

@marks ~

I think Matt 25:46 hangs on a delicate balance...
In one respect what a man ‘gathers’, wealth, good, etc. is Because of God...
And in another respect, men who hoard, never have enough, hoping for usury increase...failing to notice, their increase is there Because of God to Glorify Him, by, through of charity.