Church councils?

[Jim B]

No , cause all they would tell you is , if we have disagreements to take it to the church . and by church
they would mean THEIR CHURCH .
Just as would any JW , any mormon and any other who is held under the bondage of their leaders who taught error .
I point to the ONLY ONE I KNOW TO POINT TOO . THE JESUS in that bible , the doctrine in that bible .
GOD Knows the hearts of all men . IF we truly desire to please HIM and not ourselves , we will indeed learn and grow .
But so long as we cling to the flesh , we will only know at most truths , we will only at most
be ever learning and yet never able to come to the TRUTH . The walk , the life , the truth and the way
IS NOT a burden to the soul of a lamb , . MEN whose desires did not align with GOD but rather with their own ideals , ARE THE ONES
who have led many down the path that though it may contain some truths , WILL NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH
NOR THE AUTHOR OF TRUTH . The problem is not the bible , the problem is not GOD , CHRIST , TRUTH .
the problem is in the heart of man . Submit to GOD , resist the devil and i tell us all HE will flee .
GOD has shown man that which is right , but man has turned the spine to GOD .
GOD has given man a way out , but man has shown THE WAY THE TRUTH and the LIFE the spine
and has decided to sit under men who will preach their own hearts desires to them .
My advice , LEARN the GOD of the bible well , go unto HIM with the desire to please HIM and not man , not the flesh .

I agree totally! Excellent post!

 

[Marymog]

Simply your interpretation.

YOU need to read the Bible more carefully Marymog.

Lol...seriously? That's your answer? I thought you would do better than that. I will post facts instead of opinions. Here are what your protestant scholars say.....not just Marymog....but the men you follow:

How many times did Jesus cleanse the temple? Why did He cleanse the temple? | GotQuestions.org

How many times did Jesus cleanse the temple? - BibleAsk

Jesus cleansed the temple two times during His earthly ministry. The first cleansing took place in the spring of A.D. 28, at the beginning of His early Judean ministry (John 2:13–17).

bibleask.org

How Many Times Did Jesus Clear The Temple - Proven Way

How many times did Jesus cleanse the temple? Why did He cleanse the temple? QuestionAnswer Jesus cleaned the temple of the money-changers and product dealers out of displeasure with what they had done to God’s place of prayer and out of a desire to rid the temple of the abuse perpetrated by...

www.provenway.org

WWUTT: How Many Times Did Jesus Clear the Temple?

How Many Times Did Jesus Clear the Temple? Matthew, Mark, and Luke tell of Jesus cleansing the temple after His triumphal entry. But John records something different. It says Jesus cleansed the temple way at the start of His ministry, a few years before He was crucified.

christianpodcastcentral.com

 

[Marymog]

a) Again, the CC teaches many things that are not scriptural.

b) What is your problem? I do not have to answer to you.

A) how do you know that what the CC teaches is not scriptural? Do YOU know the "spiritual truth" of Scripture and the men of the CC don't???
B) That is the problem. You DON'T have an answer, only false accusations that you have been unable to back up with facts.

So, that is not MY problem, that is your problem

 

[Marymog]

a) I don't have to explain anything.
b) You wrote "if we disagree with each others "truth" then we are to take our disagreement to The Church to decide who is right and who is wrong". Which church are you suggesting that we take it to?

a. The Catholic Church.

b. Which church are you suggesting we take it to?

Curious Mary

 

[Enoch111]

The Protestant revolution brought Christianity confusion and division. And you think that is great?

So why did the Catholic church mount a counter-offensive -- a counter Reformation -- instead of cleaning up its act? Why didn't the Catholic church listen to "Catholic" John Wycliffe instead of calling him a heretic? Doesn't that show that those churches and clergy who hold to false teachings refuse to give them up. Instead they double down on all their nonsense. It seems as though absolutely no one wants to repent of their false doctrines and practices. And this is right across the board (Catholic or non-Catholic).

 

[Jim B]

Lol...seriously? That's your answer? I thought you would do better than that. I will post facts instead of opinions. Here are what your protestant scholars say.....not just Marymog....but the men you follow:

How many times did Jesus cleanse the temple? Why did He cleanse the temple? | GotQuestions.org

How many times did Jesus cleanse the temple? - BibleAsk

Jesus cleansed the temple two times during His earthly ministry. The first cleansing took place in the spring of A.D. 28, at the beginning of His early Judean ministry (John 2:13–17).

bibleask.org

How Many Times Did Jesus Clear The Temple - Proven Way

How many times did Jesus cleanse the temple? Why did He cleanse the temple? QuestionAnswer Jesus cleaned the temple of the money-changers and product dealers out of displeasure with what they had done to God’s place of prayer and out of a desire to rid the temple of the abuse perpetrated by...

www.provenway.org

WWUTT: How Many Times Did Jesus Clear the Temple?

How Many Times Did Jesus Clear the Temple? Matthew, Mark, and Luke tell of Jesus cleansing the temple after His triumphal entry. But John records something different. It says Jesus cleansed the temple way at the start of His ministry, a few years before He was crucified.

christianpodcastcentral.com

What you think is of no concern to me. I didn't read your "facts" as they are just the opinions of men whom you selected. Anyone can surf the internet to find the opinions of those who agree with their predetermined ideas, including those Protestant (capitalized) scholars. I believe what the Bible says, period.

 

[Illuminator]

Love for the truth was a favorite theme of Pope John Paul II. “Let us seek the truth about Christ and about his Church!...Let us love the Truth, proclaim the Truth! O Christ, show us the Truth! Be the only Truth for us!” – Agenda for the Third Millennium Pope John Paul II

The Holy Father’s enthusiasm for the truth however is not shared by the secular world. In fact, its citizens, in general, harbor a distinct fear of the truth. This fear may be analyzed on three different levels:

1) that the truth would impose unwanted moral responsibilities on them;

2) that any association with the truth would occasion an air of pretentiousness;

3) that any claim to the truth might expose them to being wrong.

They prefer freedom from moral responsibility, absence of any “holier than thou” attitude and exemption from the possible embarrassment of being in error. Their fears, however, take them from the very light and meaning they long for, and plunge them into a dark void were they are trapped by a misery of their own making. Their flight from the truth is also an entrance into a world of gloom.

These three fears are ill fated, as well as ill founded. First of all, truth is our only avenue to real freedom. “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” John 8:32

Ignorance may at times be blissful, but it is never illuminating. St. Augustine once remarked that he had met many people who had been deceived, but never met anyone who wanted to be deceived.

We have a natural hunger for the truth of things. No one ever asks for the wrong time. It is always the “right” time and the truth about things we want to learn. Untruth is not helpful, but truth is like a beacon that shows us the way. This is why the Pope titled his great encyclical on the freeing function of truth as Veritas Splendor (Truth’s Splendor).

When we are lost we want to learn the truth about our situation so that we can be liberated from our confusion. The truth makes us free; untruth binds us to bewilderment.

The truth about ourselves awakens us to our moral responsibilities, but we need this awakening in order to become whom we truly are, to advance toward our destiny, to build a meaningful life.

We should welcome the truth that illuminates our moral responsibilities with the same enthusiasm that a person who is lost in the woods and welcomes a compass and a map.

Secondly, the fear that any discovery of truth would make us pretentious is also counterproductive. Truth is not of our own making. Even Christ proclaimed that the truth He illuminated did not spring from Him alone. “My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me” (John 17:6)

Truth is not subjective. It represents the objective order of things. The person who comes to know something of the truth, then should experience humility, not vanity, for he discovers something that is not his.

Christ was emphatic in his denunciation of the Pharisees who claimed to know something of the truth but behaved with a pretentious snobbery. Truth is not he cause of Pharisaism, vanity is. And both Christ and his Church are unrelenting in their advocacy of humility and in their condemnation of vanity. In fact, it may be far less tolerant of Pharisaism than the secular world. Consider, for example, the comment, “I hate anything fake,” made by Britney Spears, a veritable icon of artificiality and pretense. The secular world awards this kind of duplicity with celebrity.

Thirdly, there is the rather spineless fear that in perusing the truth, we might fall into the embarrassing predicament of being wrong. Again, there is nothing wrong that can reasonably justify this anxiety. We all make mistakes. Not to try something for fear of making a mistake is akin to a paralyzing neurosis that would discourage one from trying anything.

Some people avoid marriage because they fear divorce. Others avoid friendship because they fear rejection. The pursuit of truth presupposes a certain amount of courage. If nothing is ventured, as the maxim goes, nothing is gained.

The fact that truth is indispensable for a meaningful life does not mean that it is always agreeable. Mounting the bathroom scale can be a breathless ascent, because the anxious weight-watcher knows that this simple piece of machinery tells the truth.
But he disconcerting truth that one is overweight may be exactly what one needs if exercising and dieting are to follow. The freedom that health offers may need to be preceded by the disagreeable truth that one is too fat.

Truth is as natural to our minds as oxygen is to our lungs and food is to our digestive system. It is a great mistake to regard the teaching of truth as an imposition. The Church does not, nor can she, “impose” truth.

Rather, she endeavors to propose truths to those who are disposed to receive them. The Dignitatis humanae states that, “The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with gentleness and power."

The Church as Guardian of the Truth and Teacher of the Word provides food for hungry minds. She does not impose the truth; no more than do Christians impose food on hungry bodies when they practice this corporeal act of mercy.

She guards it because it needs to be protected against the contamination of error. She teaches it because it is more nourishing than error. Moreover, the truth enables her to teach realistically about the truth of Christ, the truth of the Catholic Church, and the truth of man. Apostles are ministers of love, but they are also servants of the truth.

By Dr. Donald DeMarco, Professor of Philosophy, St. Jerome’s College at U. of Waterloo

 

[Jim B]

Did Jesus cleanse the Temple once or twice? Matthew, Mark, and Luke report Jesus driving merchants and moneychangers out of the temple, but some critics claim that the chronology doesn’t match. Did Jesus cleanse the temple more than once? Do the gospels disagree? How do we reconcile these passages?

1. Matthew 21:12, “And Jesus entered the temple and cast out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who were selling doves.”
2. Mark 11:11-12,15-16, “And He entered Jerusalem and came into the temple; and after looking all around, He departed for Bethany with the twelve, since it was already late. 12 And on the next day, when they had departed from Bethany, He became hungry. 15 And they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to cast out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who were selling doves; 16 and He would not permit anyone to carry goods through the temple.”
3. Luke 19:45, “And He entered the temple and began to cast out those who were selling.”

There are two possible explanations. The first is that Matthew and Mark purposely arranged their material in different patterns. Matthew is more topical in his presentation of the material than is Mark. Therefore, it may be that Matthew condensed the information into a thematic arrangement.

The other explanation is that Jesus drove moneychangers out of the temple twice. This is possible but is disputed. For more information on this, go to the Chronology of the Temple Cleansing and see a possible arrangement of the gospels.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When does the cleansing of the Temple happen? At the beginning of Jesus's ministry or later?

The gospel of John says that the cleansing of the temple was early in Jesus's ministry (John 2:14-21). The other gospels put this event after Jesus enters Jerusalem, near the time he was crucified....

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

This is a link to a long article. Part of it reads "First of all, there can only have been one cleansing of the Temple. If John is correct, then after the havoc that Jesus caused in the first year of his ministry, the traders and moneychangers would have been aware of Jesus and ready to apprehend him. When Jesus came into the Temple in his final visit to Jerusalem, he would not have been given the opportunity to do this again."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please stop your self-righteous claim to being the source of truth. You have your opinion and back it up with the writing of scholars. As you can see, I and other scholars disagree with you.

 

[Illuminator]

Here is Marymog's question:
The Protestant revolution brought Christianity confusion and division. And you think that is great?

This is @Enoch111 reply:

So why did the Catholic church mount a counter-offensive -- a counter Reformation -- instead of cleaning up its act? Why didn't the Catholic church listen to "Catholic" John Wycliffe instead of calling him a heretic? Doesn't that show that those churches and clergy who hold to false teachings refuse to give them up. Instead they double down on all their nonsense. It seems as though absolutely no one wants to repent of their false doctrines and practices. And this is right across the board (Catholic or non-Catholic).​

Enogh won't answer the question; the reply is insulting, slanderous and off topic because he is afraid of the truth.

Protestant Inquisitions: "Reformation" Intolerance & Persecution

Documentation that the early Protestants were every bit as intolerant as Catholics, and engaged in systematic persecuting inquisitions.

www.patheos.com

 

[Jim B]

No , cause all they would tell you is , if we have disagreements to take it to the church . and by church
they would mean THEIR CHURCH .
Just as would any JW , any mormon and any other who is held under the bondage of their leaders who taught error .
I point to the ONLY ONE I KNOW TO POINT TOO . THE JESUS in that bible , the doctrine in that bible .
GOD Knows the hearts of all men . IF we truly desire to please HIM and not ourselves , we will indeed learn and grow .
But so long as we cling to the flesh , we will only know at most truths , we will only at most
be ever learning and yet never able to come to the TRUTH . The walk , the life , the truth and the way
IS NOT a burden to the soul of a lamb , . MEN whose desires did not align with GOD but rather with their own ideals , ARE THE ONES
who have led many down the path that though it may contain some truths , WILL NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH
NOR THE AUTHOR OF TRUTH . The problem is not the bible , the problem is not GOD , CHRIST , TRUTH .
the problem is in the heart of man . Submit to GOD , resist the devil and i tell us all HE will flee .
GOD has shown man that which is right , but man has turned the spine to GOD .
GOD has given man a way out , but man has shown THE WAY THE TRUTH and the LIFE the spine
and has decided to sit under men who will preach their own hearts desires to them .
My advice , LEARN the GOD of the bible well , go unto HIM with the desire to please HIM and not man , not the flesh .

As far as I know, Marymog is a person. Why are you answering for her?

 

[amigo de christo]

As far as I know, Marymog is a person. Why are you answering for her?

Cause rest assured some people may read these posts and i just want them to see the truth . Never want a person
to go down the wrong road .

 

[Marymog]

What you think is of no concern to me. I didn't read your "facts" as they are just the opinions of men whom you selected. Anyone can surf the internet to find the opinions of those who agree with their predetermined ideas, including those Protestant (capitalized) scholars. I believe what the Bible says, period.

Lol....hold on.

How can you know they are opinions if you DIDN'T read them??????????


That makes no sense...........

 

[Jim B]

Lol....hold on.

How can you know they are opinions if you DIDN'T read them??????????


That makes no sense...........

I skimmed the first parts and found them to be absurd. I don't have to read the entire clips.

 

[Marymog]

So why did the Catholic church mount a counter-offensive -- a counter Reformation -- instead of cleaning up its act? Why didn't the Catholic church listen to "Catholic" John Wycliffe instead of calling him a heretic? Doesn't that show that those churches and clergy who hold to false teachings refuse to give them up. Instead they double down on all their nonsense. It seems as though absolutely no one wants to repent of their false doctrines and practices. And this is right across the board (Catholic or non-Catholic).

Ummmm, Enoch......The Church did 'clean up its act' AND mounted a counter-offensive against heretical teachings from people like Wycliffe. Are you not familiar with your own Christian history and The Council of Trent???????

Why should The Church bend to Wycliffe's demands? Why didn't he just leave The Church and start his own denomination instead of demanding that The Church change it's 1,500 year teaching to follow his teaching? Do you agree with and adher to the teachings of Wycliffe Enoch???

Catholics and non-Catholics are holding to false teachings, doctrines and practices according to who? YOU????

Who made you the arbitrator of truth?

Curious Mary

 

[Jim B]

Ummmm, Enoch......The Church did 'clean up its act' AND mounted a counter-offensive against heretical teachings from people like Wycliffe. Are you not familiar with your own Christian history and The Council of Trent???????

Why should The Church bend to Wycliffe's demands? Why didn't he just leave The Church and start his own denomination instead of demanding that The Church change it's 1,500 year teaching to follow his teaching? Do you agree with and adher to the teachings of Wycliffe Enoch???

Catholics and non-Catholics are holding to false teachings, doctrines and practices according to who? YOU????

Who made you the arbitrator of truth?

Curious Mary

The Catholic denomination, which you refer to as "The Church", has had many, many problems throughout the years. It is not "The Church" according to the Bible, as there is no mention of it in Scripture. It was not the first church, which was composed solely of Jews. It has committed many, many atrocities throughout history, including mass murder. Its doctrine is full of non-Scriptural errors, including the offices of pope and cardinal, baptism of infants, and praying to Mary. And it depicts Jesus as still on the cross(!), thereby visually denying His resurrection.

Who made you the arbitrator of truth?

 

[Marymog]

I skimmed the first parts and found them to be absurd. I don't have to read the entire clips.

That still makes no sense Jim. First you said you read it then you said you skimmed it. It sounds like you made your mind before you "skimmed" it.....that's fine with me.

I just noticed post #248! You make a good point and I digress.

Respectfully........Mary

 

[Marymog]

Did Jesus cleanse the Temple once or twice? Matthew, Mark, and Luke report Jesus driving merchants and moneychangers out of the temple, but some critics claim that the chronology doesn’t match. Did Jesus cleanse the temple more than once? Do the gospels disagree? How do we reconcile these passages?

1. Matthew 21:12, “And Jesus entered the temple and cast out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who were selling doves.”
2. Mark 11:11-12,15-16, “And He entered Jerusalem and came into the temple; and after looking all around, He departed for Bethany with the twelve, since it was already late. 12 And on the next day, when they had departed from Bethany, He became hungry. 15 And they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to cast out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who were selling doves; 16 and He would not permit anyone to carry goods through the temple.”
3. Luke 19:45, “And He entered the temple and began to cast out those who were selling.”

There are two possible explanations. The first is that Matthew and Mark purposely arranged their material in different patterns. Matthew is more topical in his presentation of the material than is Mark. Therefore, it may be that Matthew condensed the information into a thematic arrangement.

The other explanation is that Jesus drove moneychangers out of the temple twice. This is possible but is disputed. For more information on this, go to the Chronology of the Temple Cleansing and see a possible arrangement of the gospels.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When does the cleansing of the Temple happen? At the beginning of Jesus's ministry or later?

The gospel of John says that the cleansing of the temple was early in Jesus's ministry (John 2:14-21). The other gospels put this event after Jesus enters Jerusalem, near the time he was crucified....

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

This is a link to a long article. Part of it reads "First of all, there can only have been one cleansing of the Temple. If John is correct, then after the havoc that Jesus caused in the first year of his ministry, the traders and moneychangers would have been aware of Jesus and ready to apprehend him. When Jesus came into the Temple in his final visit to Jerusalem, he would not have been given the opportunity to do this again."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please stop your self-righteous claim to being the source of truth. You have your opinion and back it up with the writing of scholars. As you can see, I and other scholars disagree with you.

You make a good point as there possibly being only one temple cleansing so I digress.

I have NEVER said that I, Marymog, am "the source of truth". I have made it VERY clear that The Church is the pillar of truth.

You on the other hand have NOT made it clear where you get your truth from. It seems to me that you scour the internet and find Scholars that agree with whatever opinion you have at the time and then use them as proof that you are right....until that scholar disagrees with you and then THEY are wrong and you are right.

Unless, perhaps, could it be that you do belong to a denomination and adhere to their teachings Jim? If so, which one?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Cause rest assured some people may read these posts and i just want them to see the truth . Never want a person
to go down the wrong road .

Hmmmm......

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes indeed marymog , ponder on the things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm

 

[amigo de christo]

The Catholic denomination, which you refer to as "The Church", has had many, many problems throughout the years. It is not "The Church" according to the Bible, as there is no mention of it in Scripture. It was not the first church, which was composed solely of Jews. It has committed many, many atrocities throughout history, including mass murder. Its doctrine is full of non-Scriptural errors, including the offices of pope and cardinal, baptism of infants, and praying to Mary. And it depicts Jesus as still on the cross(!), thereby visually denying His resurrection.

Who made you the arbitrator of truth?

Never follow that place jim . Stick in the bible and keep learning .