Church councils?

[stunnedbygrace]

Good morning Stunnedbygrace,

I don't think you are interrupting, and I appreciate the dialogue. You ask a good question.

It is important to start with Scripture when answering your question. 'The parable about the man thrown into prison until he pays the last farthing" (Matthew 5:25-26) is one of the passages from Scripture. Another passage like it is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Also, Matthew 12:31-32 says that anyone who speaketh against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven in this world or in the world to come. The reason that passage is important is because it suggests that there are sins that CAN be forgiven after death. And let us not forget what the Jewish faith teaches about Purgatory in 2 Macc. 12:41–45 and how they believe in it also. So, Maccabees was written around 130BC and Matthew along with Corinthians was written roughly 50-80AD.

Now to address your Church Fathers question/comment. I suggest you read what Tertullian had to say about it in The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211] and Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216] for the earliest "Church Father" writing on the matter. If you want to go back a little further in time and read some early Christian history, I suggest you read Acts of Paul and Thecla [A.D. 160]) and Epitaph of Abercius [A.D. 190].

Along with OT, NT and early Christian writings that covers approximately 350 years of Jewish/Christian teaching on the matter. The makes the earliest teachings on Purgatory about 1,600 years BEFORE some random Protestant men came up with a different interpretation of those passages and rejected the earliest Christian writings/doctrine concerning the matter.

So, I ask you Stunnedbygrace: Why so you accept the 500-year teaching of some random Protestant men and reject the teachings of the Jews and earliest Christians?

You have no fight with me concerning the unsavory men, both Catholic and Protestant, that have fulfilled 1 Timothy 6:10. They are disgusting. But maybe, just maybe, IF they get to Purgatory they will be cleansed.

Thank you so much for that information, I will look into it! Really, thank you! You’ve set it all out for me and saved me a tremendous amount of time in searching.

Why do you ask me why I believe a 500 year old teaching…? What I mean is, why do you assume that about me? I’m searching this out. I’m leaning toward the outer darkness possibly being that purgatorial or purging or refining place, which is why I sought out the only Catholic that came to my mind to ask about it.

 

[Marymog]

Thank you so much for that information, I will look into it! Really, thank you! You’ve set it all out for me and saved me a tremendous amount of time in searching.

Why do you ask me why I believe a 500 year old teaching…? What I mean is, why do you assume that about me? I’m searching this out. I’m leaning toward the outer darkness possibly being that purgatorial or purging or refining place, which is why I sought out the only Catholic that came to my mind to ask about it.

You are welcome and I sincerely apologize. I shouldn't have assumed that.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are welcome and I sincerely apologize. I shouldn't have assumed that.

No apology necessary. Most Protestants don’t believe in any type of purgative type place so it’s probably a logical assumption. I think I see it in scripture. I probably wouldn’t call myself a Protestant. I don’t believe all humans will live eternally or that they’re born from the womb as eternal beings so therefore can have no eternal life of torture without being born again by the Holy Spirit so…probably can’t call myself Protestant...

 

[Marymog]

My beef aint with peter . Its with the CC . That instution has led to the death of many throughout all centuries .
And i dont mean just killing folks with physical death , BUt with spiritual death too . Peter would have rebuked that place .
Your no different than the mormons or jws or any other who claims they follow Christ and the apostels , WHEN IN TRUTH
they follow MEN who taught contrary to them . And you and others just keep defending yalls institutions .
Anyone can claim they follow Christ and the apostels . YOU know how I know they dont , WHEN THEY TEACH CONTRARY .
Just as the CC has done , just as many others have done . LEARN THE BIBLE before its too late . AND LEARN it for yourself
not through the twisted lens of an institution gone wrong .

Lol....YOU know that men are following men when they teach contrary according to who's teaching? YOUR TEACHING???????

Are you not a man? And are you not always trying to teach us YOUR interpretation of Scripture on this forum???? Think about it kiddo....

 

[amigo de christo]

Lol....YOU know that men are following men when they teach contrary according to who's teaching? YOUR TEACHING???????

Are you not a man? And are you not always trying to teach us YOUR interpretation of Scripture on this forum???? Think about it kiddo....

When they DO contrary to what JESUS said to do and not to do , THEY false .
So the next time someone calls one of them MOST HOLY FATHER or most holy reverand . TRY remembering what JESUS said .
Try remembering what even peter said and did when folks tried to kneel before him .
He did not say , HEY wait a minute till i sit in my chair and put on my ring . HE SAID DONT DO IT
i am but a man . This religion like many others was created to serve men who LORD over the flocks
and love their flattering titles and big robes and fancy dress and folks call them Titles that belong to GOD , to CHRIST ALONE .
Learn that bible and stop letting THEM try and twist why they do as they do . Expose them for what they are ,
wolves in sheeps clothing .

 

[Keturah]

Sad day to Catholicism when Catholics call Catholics " heretics"!
No council or reformation is a true mark of Christianity except those who live by the " Holy Writ of God" through the Christ !

 

[Marymog]

When they DO contrary to what JESUS said to do and not to do , THEY false .

According to WHO?

YOU??

Think about what you are saying amigo.....

 

[amigo de christo]

According to WHO?

YOU??

Think about what you are saying amigo.....

Well it aint according to the RCC , nor JW camp , nor mormon camp , nor scores of many false ones within the protestant realm .
THINK . read it for yourself . They got you all well trained . From the CC to the JW and etc , they got their people
trained to sit under them . My advice , READ FOR YOURSELF .

 

[Illuminator]

Sad day to Catholicism when Catholics call Catholics " heretics"!
No council or reformation is a true mark of Christianity except those who live by the " Holy Writ of God" through the Christ !

A knowledge of Church history is more important than most 21st century Christians realize. The various doctrines we adhere to today regarding God, Jesus, the Holy Trinity, the scriptures, salvation, etc., did not occur in a vacuum. They are the result of 2000 years of theological discussion – the foundations of which were laid in the first several centuries of Christian history. Knowledge of our history can guide us into a more thorough understanding of our Christian doctrines.

 

[Keturah]

View attachment 27795
A knowledge of Church history is more important than most 21st century Christians realize. The various doctrines we adhere to today regarding God, Jesus, the Holy Trinity, the scriptures, salvation, etc., did not occur in a vacuum. They are the result of 2000 years of theological discussion – the foundations of which were laid in the first several centuries of Christian history. Knowledge of our history can guide us into a more thorough understanding of our Christian doctrines.

While I believe you have the right to peruse all things written about God by man, I will hold to only those things written under the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit ,penned by holy chosen men of God !

I do love history myself and enjoying seeing the growth of man, but man has become totally corrupt and malignantly wicked in rejecting and rewriting God !

 

[amigo de christo]

While I believe you have the right to peruse all things written about God by man, I will hold to only those things written under the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit ,penned by holy chosen men of God !

I do love history myself and enjoying seeing the growth of man, but man has become totally corrupt and malignantly wicked in rejecting and rewriting God !

exactly . stick in that bible . Many men throughout all ages and all realms , including the jews, including many within the church
have overlooked the TRUTH of GOD and of HIS words and sold a bill of rotted goods with a pinch of truth splashed on it
by which to decieve them to eat of it .

 

[Keturah]

exactly . stick in that bible . Many men throughout all ages and all realms , including the jews, including many within the church
have overlooked the TRUTH of GOD and of HIS words and sold a bill of rotted goods with a pinch of truth splashed on it
by which to decieve them to eat of it .

I agree. They seem to think a pinch of salt instead of being the salt and the whole pot of leaven as opposed to a pinch for growth.
Backwards, backwards backwards recipes.

I will eat no cake ( meat ) if it OFFENDS my brother.

We come here with the assumption to fellowship with God's folks but the truth is their are tooooooo many cakes w/o the right ingredients.

 

[Illuminator]

While I believe you have the right to peruse all things written about God by man, I will hold to only those things written under the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit ,penned by holy chosen men of God !

Yes, holy men chosen by God to preserve, compile and proclaim the written Word, which required COUNCILS over a period of 4 centuries. Without the Tradition of the episcopate, you would have no Bible in the first place.

I do love history myself and enjoying seeing the growth of man, but man has become totally corrupt and malignantly wicked in rejecting and rewriting God !

Councils are not "totally corrupt and malignantly wicked", since their structure is modeled after the Council of Jerusalem. Most of them were convened to refute heretics who all used "Bible alone" for their false teachings. If you love history you would know something about Bible origins, and why councils were necessary because heretics were re-writing God, not councils.

 

[Keturah]

Yes, holy men chosen by God to preserve, compile and proclaim the written Word, which required COUNCILS over a period of 4 centuries. Without the Tradition of the episcopate, you would have no Bible in the first place.

Councils are not "totally corrupt and malignantly wicked", since their structure is modeled after the Council of Jerusalem. Most of them were convened to refute heretics who all used "Bible alone" for their false teachings. If you love history you would know something about Bible origins, and why councils were necessary because heretics were re-writing God, not councils.

I love only God's Writ as my standard and practice of living for him. BIBLE ALONE HERE, mister.......lol.

History of HIS leadership is found in all these words. I DO NOT go outside of what is written within for guidance.

Studying the many many different denominations not even counting the many religions of this earth, council disputes and disagreements are the VERY reason for the divisions into the many many factions.

MAN is wicked and malignant, and corrupted bc God said the imagination of the heart is wicked and seeks it's own vanity and to do evil continually and he is the ONLY ONE WHO COULD KNOW IT.

 

[amigo de christo]

I love on God's Writ as my standard and practice of living for him. BIBLE ALONE HERE, mister.......lol.

History of HIS leadership is found in all these words. I DO NOT go outside of what is written within for guidance.

Studying the many many different denominations not even counting the many religions of this earth, council disputes and disagreements are the VERY reason for the divisions into the many many factions.

MAN is wicked and malignant, and corrupted bc God said the imagination of the heart is wicked and seeks it's own vanity and to do evil continually and he is the ONLY ONE WHO COULD KNOW IT.

That IS exactly why there are so many different denominations . IF ONLY folks have stayed glued in the bible
and simply learned how simple things could have been . Stay DUG in that bible myfriend .

 

[Illuminator]

I love only God's Writ as my standard and practice of living for him. BIBLE ALONE HERE, mister.......lol.

History of HIS leadership is found in all these words. I DO NOT go outside of what is written within for guidance.

Studying the many many different denominations not even counting the many religions of this earth, council disputes and disagreements are the VERY reason for the divisions into the many many factions.

MAN is wicked and malignant, and corrupted bc God said the imagination of the heart is wicked and seeks it's own vanity and to do evil continually and he is the ONLY ONE WHO COULD KNOW IT.

Which council in post #229 caused "division and disagreements", since they were all convened to counter heresies?

 

[Marymog]

Well it aint according to the RCC , nor JW camp , nor mormon camp , nor scores of many false ones within the protestant realm .
THINK . read it for yourself . They got you all well trained . From the CC to the JW and etc , they got their people
trained to sit under them . My advice , READ FOR YOURSELF .

Seriously amigo. Think about what you are saying.

You are saying when anyone does something contrary to what Jesus said to do and not to do then we know they are false teachers. I agree with you on that. You then point out the Catholic Church, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and "scores of many false ones within the protestant realm" that are teaching contrary to Jesus's teaching.

Does that make YOU the arbitrator of truth since you KNOW who is teaching the truth and who isn't?

After all is said and done, that is what you are saying; YOU know the truth. So we should all listen to YOU because you READ FOR YOURSELF? But everyone in the CC or JW church or Mormon church when they read for themselves, THEY don't know what they are reading but YOU do???

Come on amigo...THINK ABOUT IT!!!

 

[Marymog]

That IS exactly why there are so many different denominations . IF ONLY folks have stayed glued in the bible
and simply learned how simple things could have been . Stay DUG in that bible myfriend .

Lol.... it is the lone wolf mentality that YOU have of 'I can sit in my basement, eat my Doritos, drink my soda and read Scripture on my own and figure it out on my own the Truth of Scripture because I am glued to the bible and I am DUG into the bible but no one else is.

And then you get other people to follow you and YOUR truth........that is how "so many different denominations" get started.

You know....just like the Protestant revolution 500 years ago that is still going on today!!

Think about it amigo.....

 

[-Phil]

You’re a heretic in a sect, sorry but truth over feelings

That is how the bond is overlooked.

 

[amigo de christo]

Marymog and Bol are on the move as one today . Recruitment for the CC is failing .
Let us return to our bibles and learn them well .