Co- Redemptrix

[michaelvpardo]

Doesn't it require "faith" for both Jew and Gentile to "repent"? And for both Jew and Gentile the sins of which shall be remembered no more, by "grace"? To the Jew first, and also for the Gentile.

John 4:22c ... for salvation is from the Jews.

In the wilderness, they had "sacrifice". Yet only two of those who witnessed the power of "God", actually entered the "Promised Land". For "sacrifice", only covered unintentional or sins of ignorance. "Sacrifice" does not cover willful sin [cf Num 15:29-31].

The law of Moses was a system of works based righteousness which even states about itself that keeping the law would mean preserving a long life in the land for the tribes of Israel. Individuals such as King David and Moses had a demonstrated faith in God for which reasons we call them saints, but even these received an annointing with the Spirit of God that empowered them to do the works God called them to do. The law was not given as a means of eternal life or salvation, but on the contrary reveals the complete sinfulness of the human heart. In Christ's days in the flesh, His ministry was largely pointing out the impossibility of men saving themselves by their works contrary to the thinking of His religious contemporaries; We have three gospels which focus primarily on the weakness of men and the strength of God. John's gospel is slightly different in that it's primary focus is on the deity of Jesus Christ. What many carnal minded people commonly miss in reading through scripture is that Jesus's ministry was primarily to the Jews and the lost children of Israel, so His teaching was from the law (mostly from the book of Deuteronomy in the gospels) and given to those under the law of Moses. The gospel as preached by Paul was primarily to the Gentiles (though Paul always preached to the dispersed Jews first until he was by and large rejected by them) so the good news of God's grace was given primarily to those without law. The gospel of God's grace is about believing and receiving Christ by faith, not by doing works of any sort (faith is God's work in us.) Even the first church in Jerusalem acknowledged this by making no requirements of the gentile churches other than they obstain from sexual immortality and foods sacrificed to idols. Salvation is a gift in which our part is only to believe and receive our Lord with all that implies. The scripture plainly says that we are saved for good works, not by them. The Apostle Paul wrote multiple epistles explaining these things and nearly 2000 years later the largest "Christian" denomination continues to trample upon the cross of Christ imagining that they somehow contribute to God's finished work through Christ Jesus. That's a disgrace .

 

[twinc]

The law of Moses was a system of works based righteousness which even states about itself that keeping the law would mean preserving a long life in the land for the tribes of Israel. Individuals such as King David and Moses had a demonstrated faith in God for which reasons we call them saints, but even these received an annointing with the Spirit of God that empowered them to do the works God called them to do. The law was not given as a means of eternal life or salvation, but on the contrary reveals the complete sinfulness of the human heart. In Christ's days in the flesh, His ministry was largely pointing out the impossibility of men saving themselves by their works contrary to the thinking of His religious contemporaries; We have three gospels which focus primarily on the weakness of men and the strength of God. John's gospel is slightly different in that it's primary focus is on the deity of Jesus Christ. What many carnal minded people commonly miss in reading through scripture is that Jesus's ministry was primarily to the Jews and the lost children of Israel, so His teaching was from the law (mostly from the book of Deuteronomy in the gospels) and given to those under the law of Moses. The gospel as preached by Paul was primarily to the Gentiles (though Paul always preached to the dispersed Jews first until he was by and large rejected by them) so the good news of God's grace was given primarily to those without law. The gospel of God's grace is about believing and receiving Christ by faith, not by doing works of any sort (faith is God's work in us.) Even the first church in Jerusalem acknowledged this by making no requirements of the gentile churches other than they obstain from sexual immortality and foods sacrificed to idols. Salvation is a gift in which our part is only to believe and receive our Lord with all that implies. The scripture plainly says that we are saved for good works, not by them. The Apostle Paul wrote multiple epistles explaining these things and nearly 2000 years later the largest "Christian" denomination continues to trample upon the cross of Christ imagining that they somehow contribute to God's finished work through Christ Jesus. That's a disgrace .

who says so since it is an all round Christian belief that is through grace by faith that we are saved - imho - twinc

 

[michaelvpardo]

who says so since it is an all round Christian belief that is through grace by faith that we are saved - imho - twinc

I'm not sure what your question is,but the who would be God as the scriptures are inspired by Him.

 

[Richard_oti]

The law of Moses was a system of works based righteousness which even states about itself that keeping the law would mean preserving a long life in the land for the tribes of Israel. Individuals such as King David and Moses had a demonstrated faith in God for which reasons we call them saints, but even these received an annointing with the Spirit of God that empowered them to do the works God called them to do. The law was not given as a means of eternal life or salvation, but on the contrary reveals the complete sinfulness of the human heart.

Rom 9:31 but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works.

David loved the law of YHVH.

Psa 51:16 For thou delightest not in sacrifice; else would I give it: Thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offering. 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Pro 21:3 To do righteousness and justice Is more acceptable to YHVH than sacrifice.

Hos 6:6 For I desire goodness, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt-offerings.

Mic 6:8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth YHVH require of thee, but to do justly, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Ecc 12:13 This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God will bring every work into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

In Christ's days in the flesh, His ministry was largely pointing out the impossibility of men saving themselves by their works contrary to the thinking of His religious contemporaries; We have three gospels which focus primarily on the weakness of men and the strength of God. John's gospel is slightly different in that it's primary focus is on the deity of Jesus Christ. What many carnal minded people commonly miss in reading through scripture is that Jesus's ministry was primarily to the Jews and the lost children of Israel, so His teaching was from the law (mostly from the book of Deuteronomy in the gospels) and given to those under the law of Moses.

Mat 9:12 But when he heard it, he said, They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what this meaneth, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

So to employ a bit of hyperbole here: In your opinion, if Jesus was here amoung us on this forum today, would he be preaching a different "gospel" to us than what he taught then? Or would the message and the teachings be the same?

IOW: Would "go and sin no more", if spoken to either you or I still mean the same and carry the same depth to it. Be defined by the same "measure" or "standard".

The gospel as preached by Paul was primarily to the Gentiles (though Paul always preached to the dispersed Jews first until he was by and large rejected by them) so the good news of God's grace was given primarily to those without law. The gospel of God's grace is about believing and receiving Christ by faith

So here you are in essence saying that the message is the same. It was by faith then, and it is still by faith. Which, seems to be what I previously stated by way of question.

not by doing works of any sort (faith is God's work in us.)

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Even the first church in Jerusalem acknowledged this by making no requirements of the gentile churches other than they obstain from sexual immortality and foods sacrificed to idols.

Well, you kinda named two of the four. However:

By what standard or measure was / is "sexual immortality" [sic] (immorality) defined?

Was it the same measure or standard that the Bereans examined?

Salvation is a gift in which our part is only to believe and receive our Lord with all that implies.

Key words: "with all that implies".

The scripture plainly says that we are saved for good works, not by them.

Eph 2:12 that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

When those of Egypt also left with Israel in the Exodus, was there a different "standard" for them? Or was there one law for both the native born and the those who sojourned with them? For they also, joined themselves to the "commonwealth of Israel". Into which, we are grafted.

The Apostle Paul wrote multiple epistles explaining these things and nearly 2000 years later the largest "Christian" denomination continues to trample upon the cross of Christ imagining that they somehow contribute to God's finished work through Christ Jesus. That's a disgrace .

What's truly a "disgrace" from my perspective, is your attempt to use your reply to me as a platform to "bash" a denomination that you deem to be inferior to yours.

Thus, to simply "believe" without doing "all that implies", your "belief / faith" will be reckoned as unbelief.

"the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Neither, apparently do you.

No - we can't BOTH be wrong.
Either we have a say regarding our salvation or we don't.

The Bible is clear about the fact that we DO . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matthew 19:25-26, Mark 10:26-27, Luke 18:26-27
Romans 3:10-11, Isaiah 64:5-7, Isaiah 53:5-6, Isaiah 53:10-11
John 3:3-6
The gospel of Repentance for sins was preached to the Jews, the gospel of God's grace was preached to the gentiles. Jews received the promise of life through repentance, Gentiles receive the promise of eternal life by faith leading to repentance. I can understand why you're confused, but if you submit your soul to Christ's care, believing that The blood of the Son of God is sufficient payment for all of your sin, past, present, and future, then you too may receive life eternal, receiving His Holy Spirit by faith. Clinging to your own righteousness is death. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Amen and Amen.

This is about the most asinine thing you've said so far.
Sooooo, because we're not Jewish - we don't have to repent?? That is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[twinc]

I'm not sure what your question is,but the who would be God as the scriptures are inspired by Him.

no doubt the scriptures are inspired, by God, but not by you - the thou/you at Mt 16:19 and 18:18 is not michaelvpardo - twinc

 

[michaelvpardo]

This is about the most asinine thing you've said so far.
Sooooo, because we're not Jewish - we don't have to repent?? That is complete and utter nonsense.

I don't expect a carnal mind to understand the spiritual, especially if you can't understand plain English. Being born again by God's election leads to repentance, repentance doesn't lead to being born again. How did you contribute when your mother gave you birth. Its a simple question or do you insist that Jesus Christ was mistaken in His analogy?

 

[michaelvpardo]

no doubt the scriptures are inspired, by God, but not by you - the thou/you at Mt 16:19 and 18:18 is not michaelvpardo - twinc

Duh.

 

[michaelvpardo]

My denomination was Roman Catholic, but having become the recipient of God's grace I no longer have a denomination, though I've found Baptist doctrine to be the most biblical. Thank you for posting the proof verses for my argument. What do you think godly sorrow is and where does godly sorrow come from?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't expect a carnal mind to understand the spiritual, especially if you can't understand plain English. Being born again by God's election leads to repentance, repentance doesn't lead to being born again. How did you contribute when your mother gave you birth. Its a simple question or do you insist that Jesus Christ was mistaken in His analogy?

Wrong.

Jesus Himself tells us that we are born again when we are BAPTIZED (John 3:5).
Being born again is of WATER and SPIRIT. we are not. Repentance is not only a part of being born again - it is essential (Acts 2:31).

Whoever told you that we have nothing to do with our salvation lied to you because that's NOT what the Bible teaches . . .

Matthew 23:37
Luke 13:34
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were NOT WILLING.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My denomination was Roman Catholic, but having become the recipient of God's grace I no longer have a denomination, though I've found Baptist doctrine to be the most biblical. Thank you for posting the proof verses for my argument. What do you think godly sorrow is and where does godly sorrow come from?

The Catholic Church isn't a "denomination". A denomination is a faction.
The Catholic Church is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered into factions- and continues to splinter.

By the way - there is no such denomination or church as "Roman Catholic".
"Roman" or "Latin" refers to the RITE which most Catholics are part of. The Church is comprised of 20 Rites that are in full communion with each other. It is known simply as, "The Catholic Church."

You might want to do some homework on the subject - if you're going to claim to have been part of it . . .

 

[twinc]

My denomination was Roman Catholic, but having become the recipient of God's grace I no longer have a denomination, though I've found Baptist doctrine to be the most biblical. Thank you for posting the proof verses for my argument. What do you think godly sorrow is and where does godly sorrow come from?

Christianity is about the 'good news' and glad tidings of great joy imho - twinc

 

[michaelvpardo]

Christianity is about the 'good news' and glad tidings of great joy imho - twinc

So, I guess you haven't actually read the scriptures or understood what they teach regarding repentance and what Spirit brings it.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The Catholic Church isn't a "denomination". A denomination is a faction.
The Catholic Church is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered into factions- and continues to splinter.

By the way - there is no such denomination or church as "Roman Catholic".
"Roman" or "Latin" refers to the RITE which most Catholics are part of. The Church is comprised of 20 Rites that are in full communion with each other. It is known simply as, "The Catholic Church."

You might want to do some homework on the subject - if you're going to claim to have been part of it . . .

The RCC is most definitely a faction and most definitely not the first church. Even RCC historians know that to be true. When did Coptic Christians and Greek orthodox or Russian orthodox or Ethiopian christians identify as part of the RCC? When did they ever share in RCC dogma. Get real bud and take a seditive or something.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Wrong.

Jesus Himself tells us that we are born again when we are BAPTIZED (John 3:5).
Being born again is of WATER and SPIRIT. we are not. Repentance is not only a part of being born again - it is essential (Acts 2:31).

Whoever told you that we have nothing to do with our salvation lied to you because that's NOT what the Bible teaches . . .

Matthew 23:37
Luke 13:34
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were NOT WILLING.

Actually Jesus spoke of being baptized with the Holy Spirit but this wasn't accomplished until after His resurrection. Perhaps you should try reading the gospel accounts and the book of the acts of the Apostles again very slowly.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The RCC is most definitely a faction and most definitely not the first church. Even RCC historians know that to be true. When did Coptic Christians and Greek orthodox or Russian orthodox or Ethiopian christians identify as part of the RCC? When did they ever share in RCC dogma. Get real bud and take a seditive or something.

Time for a historical reality check.

When was the Church called Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox or Coptic?? Do you have a document earlier than Ignatius of Antioch's "Letter to the Smyrnaeans"?? The reality is that the Orthodox Churches were part of the Catholic Church until the East West split in the 11th century.

If you're going to make these kinds of outlandish claims - the onus is on YOU to prove it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually Jesus spoke of being baptized with the Holy Spirit but this wasn't accomplished until after His resurrection. Perhaps you should try reading the gospel accounts and the book of the acts of the Apostles again very slowly.

Actually - Jesus spoke of being baptized with WATER when He spoke to Nicodemus (John 3:3-5).

The first 3 chapters of the Gospel of John are DRENCHED in Baptism (pardon the pun).
Chapter 1 - Jesus is Baptized - and what do we see?? WATER and the HOLY SPIRIT John 1:29-34).
Chapter 2 - Jesus's 1st miracle is changing WATER into WINE. this was no accident. It signifies the change that occurs after Baptism (John 2:1-10).
Chapter 3 - Jesus tells Nicodemus that we must be born again of WATER and SPIRIT in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (John 3:5).
Chapter 3 - Jesus and His Apostles are BAPTIZING people with WATER (John 3:22-23).

Water Baptism is essential - not optional.

 

[Jun2u]

Actually - Jesus spoke of being baptized with WATER when He spoke to Nicodemus (John 3:3-5).

The first 3 chapters of the Gospel of John are DRENCHED in Baptism (pardon the pun).
Chapter 1 - Jesus is Baptized - and what do we see?? WATER and the HOLY SPIRIT John 1:29-34).
Chapter 2 - Jesus's 1st miracle is changing WATER into WINE. this was no accident. It signifies the change that occurs after Baptism (John 2:1-10).
Chapter 3 - Jesus tells Nicodemus that we must be born again of WATER and SPIRIT in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (John 3:5).
Chapter 3 - Jesus and His Apostles are BAPTIZING people with WATER (John 3:22-23).

Water Baptism is essential - not optional.

John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

The word “baptism” means to “wash.” What are we washed from? Why, our sins of course. Can water wash away sins? Most definitely, not. What you have to do is look ln the Scriptures how else God uses the word “water.”

If you claim Peter as your first pope / founder of your church then you ought to believe what he teaches, correct? Well, he said that water can only put away the filth of the skin (1 Peter 3:20-21). It has no spiritual value in baptism. Again, I suggest you search the Bible how else God uses the word “water,” because it is spiritually discerned in this context.

Time and time again I’ve maintained you have no understanding of Scriptures at all, and the amazing thing is you prove it each time and without effort.

To God Be The Glory

 

[twinc]

John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

The word “baptism” means to “wash.” What are we washed from? Why, our sins of course. Can water wash away sins? Most definitely, not. What you have to do is look ln the Scriptures how else God uses the word “water.”

If you claim Peter as your first pope / founder of your church then you ought to believe what he teaches, correct? Well, he said that water can only put away the filth of the skin (1 Peter 3:20-21). It has no spiritual value in baptism. Again, I suggest you search the Bible how else God uses the word “water,” because it is spiritually discerned in this context.

Time and time again I’ve maintained you have no understanding of Scriptures at all, and the amazing thing is you prove it each time and without effort.

To God Be The Glory

so how can a piece of wood with a body nailed to it signify salvation and the forgiveness for the sins of the world - a case of choking on a gnat and swallowing a camel imho - twinc