Co- Redemptrix

[Helen]

Christianity is about the 'good news' and glad tidings of great joy imho - twinc

Amen...agree.
Much of what is said to be 'the gospel' is far from Good News...but very much bad, negative news.

 

[Jun2u]

so how can a piece of wood with a body nailed to it signify salvation and the forgiveness for the sins of the world - a case of choking on a gnat and swallowing a camel imho - twinc

You are one of those who should join up with BoL
BTW, Jesus did NOT redeem the sins of the world, this is a faulty understanding not reading Scriptures correctly, but only to those whom the Father gave to Him (Matthew 1:21; John 6:37).

Did Jesus die in 33 AD?

To God Be The Glory

 

[michaelvpardo]

Time for a historical reality check.

When was the Church called Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox or Coptic?? Do you have a document earlier than Ignatius of Antioch's "Letter to the Smyrnaeans"?? The reality is that the Orthodox Churches were part of the Catholic Church until the East West split in the 11th century.

If you're going to make these kinds of outlandish claims - the onus is on YOU to prove it . . .

The same could be said to you about the RCC's outlandish claims and wild fantasies....the onus is on you to prove them. However since you were unable to answer the most simple and basic spiritual questions posed here, I don't anticipate any proofs. How can you prove lies to be true?

 

[michaelvpardo]

You are one of those who should join up with BoL
BTW, Jesus did NOT redeem the sins of the world, this is a faulty understanding not reading Scriptures correctly, but only to those whom the Father gave to Him (Matthew 1:21; John 6:37).

Did Jesus die in 33 AD?

To God Be The Glory

Actually He did redeem all of creation or He wouldn't be the judge of all men, both living and the dead.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Actually - Jesus spoke of being baptized with WATER when He spoke to Nicodemus (John 3:3-5).

The first 3 chapters of the Gospel of John are DRENCHED in Baptism (pardon the pun).
Chapter 1 - Jesus is Baptized - and what do we see?? WATER and the HOLY SPIRIT John 1:29-34).
Chapter 2 - Jesus's 1st miracle is changing WATER into WINE. this was no accident. It signifies the change that occurs after Baptism (John 2:1-10).
Chapter 3 - Jesus tells Nicodemus that we must be born again of WATER and SPIRIT in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (John 3:5).
Chapter 3 - Jesus and His Apostles are BAPTIZING people with WATER (John 3:22-23).

Water Baptism is essential - not optional.

So I suppose that the thief crucified with Christ and that received the promise of paradise and the presence of Christ was miraculously transported into a puddle and then back to his cross to die. Stop telling lies.

 

[Helen]

Actually He did redeem all of creation or He wouldn't be the judge of all men, both living and the dead.

Yay! Glad you said it...I was going to say it too.

Rom 5:8 "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
With regard to Christ’s shed blood, redemption essentially means ....... deliverance from death by means of payment of a very high price.
To redeem is to buy back, whether as a purchase or a ransom price.
For all mankind.
No wonder we live now in the state of thanksgiving.

Praise God!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

The same could be said to you about the RCC's outlandish claims and wild fantasies....the onus is on you to prove them. However since you were unable to answer the most simple and basic spiritual questions posed here, I don't anticipate any proofs. How can you prove lies to be true?

Ummmm, I'm not the one who said that there were Churches older than the Catholic Churhc - YOU were.
The onus is on YOU to prove this.

However - I will provide proof of MY claim that the Catholic Church was here before ALL the others:
From St. Ignatius of Antioch, student of the Apostle John:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Now - let's see YOUR evidence . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So I suppose that the thief crucified with Christ and that received the promise of paradise and the presence of Christ was miraculously transported into a puddle and then back to his cross to die. Stop telling lies.

No - he was an exception. Water Baptism is the norm.
God CAN and DOES make exceptions.

Here't a little hint: Don't base your doctrines on the exception - but ALWAYS on the norm.

 

[Jun2u]

Actually He did redeem all of creation or He wouldn't be the judge of all men, both living and the dead.

Actually, Jesus came as the Savior (John 12:47) and not as the judge until at the end of the world. Jesus has not redeemed the creation as well as it still remains thistles and thorns until He creates a new heaven and a new earth on the last day.

What do you mean by Jesus judging the living and the dead? Please, with Scriptures!

To God Be The Glory

 

[aspen]

The same could be said to you about the RCC's outlandish claims and wild fantasies....the onus is on you to prove them. However since you were unable to answer the most simple and basic spiritual questions posed here, I don't anticipate any proofs. How can you prove lies to be true?

Communication requires at least two willing parties, right Michael?

 

[tabletalk]

No - he was an exception. Water Baptism is the norm.
God CAN and DOES make exceptions.

Here't a little hint: Don't base your doctrines on the exception - but ALWAYS on the norm.

How about the exception that the Virgin Mary was Immaculate? The norm is a sinner.

 

[aspen]

How about the exception that the Virgin Mary was Immaculate? The norm is a sinner.

I disagree. Congnitively impaired individuals are examples of people who are not sinful

 

[BreadOfLife]

How about the exception that the Virgin Mary was Immaculate? The norm is a sinner.

Correct.

I disagree. Congnitively impaired individuals are examples of people who are not sinful

Cognitively impaired people, like the rest of us are born into sin.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are one of those who should join up with BoL
BTW, Jesus did NOT redeem the sins of the world, this is a faulty understanding not reading Scriptures correctly, but only to those whom the Father gave to Him (Matthew 1:21; John 6:37).

Did Jesus die in 33 AD?

To God Be The Glory

WRONG.

Jesus redeemed (paid for) ALL sinners.
However, NOT all will be saved because they will reject this gift.

Redemption and salvation are TWO different things. Hitler, Charles Manson and Ted Bundy were ALL redeemed.
Whether or not they were saved is a different story.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Communication requires at least two willing parties, right Michael?

Always does, willing being the operative word. Dogmatic appologists aren't exactly willing types, believing they are the sole arbiters of truth.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Actually, Jesus came as the Savior (John 12:47) and not as the judge until at the end of the world. Jesus has not redeemed the creation as well as it still remains thistles and thorns until He creates a new heaven and a new earth on the last day.

What do you mean by Jesus judging the living and the dead? Please, with Scriptures!

To God Be The Glory

I recommend that you read Matthew 28:18 and spend a little time considering the implications.

 

[michaelvpardo]

No - he was an exception. Water Baptism is the norm.
God CAN and DOES make exceptions.

Here't a little hint: Don't base your doctrines on the exception - but ALWAYS on the norm.

So the scripture says that God is no respector of men, but you believe He makes special exceptions and put them in His word to confuse the truth?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Ummmm, I'm not the one who said that there were Churches older than the Catholic Churhc - YOU were.
The onus is on YOU to prove this.

However - I will provide proof of MY claim that the Catholic Church was here before ALL the others:
From St. Ignatius of Antioch, student of the Apostle John:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Now - let's see YOUR evidence . . .

Thank you for proving that the RCC is a faction of the Catholic church (or there would be no reason for the RCC to self identity as the RCC).

 

[michaelvpardo]

I disagree. Congnitively impaired individuals are examples of people who are not sinful

Everything that we do that is not done according to God's will is sin, the question is whether or not we are held accountable for it. The first time a child says no to its parents' commands or in opposition to their will, that child has not only sinned, but broken one of the top ten (so to speak) but scripture tells us that the knowledge of good and evil is what brings accountability. Do you really believe that cognitively impaired individuals have no conscious recognition of when they've done something wrong? The ones that I know attempt to conceal their misdeeds in much the same fashion as a three-year old. I've seen toddlers fight over the possession of toys. The action is wrong, but the question is do they understand that it is wrong. When does self will become sin or more accurately, when does self will become accounted as sin? Scripture even says that everything which we do that is not done by faith is sin which would imply that if we are without faith then everything we do is sin. Fortunately for us, Jesus Christ paid the price for all of our sin with His own sacrifice upon the cross and it is Jesus that's been granted all authority in heaven and upon Earth, and consequently is both our judge and advocate. This is why I trust entirely in what He has said, in that being equal to God, He will not break His own word. The fear of men is a snare, a trap for our souls. Fear God and trust in His word.

 

[michaelvpardo]

WRONG.

Jesus redeemed (paid for) ALL sinners.
However, NOT all will be saved because they will reject this gift.

Redemption and salvation are TWO different things. Hitler, Charles Manson and Ted Bundy were ALL redeemed.
Whether or not they were saved is a different story.

This is very good and true. I'm impressed.