Colossians 2:14-16 - The Law That Was Against Us

[BarneyFife]

I cannot understand why men would throw out one delusion for another. I only kept quiet because you hadnt chosen this path, now all you have done is become like those who very same people whom you are telling "they are wrong". One lie for another, one religion for another, And so that what is in Christ again gets thrown out and mens religion takes over.

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

By the way, religion may not be the dirty word you seem to think it is. It's in the Bible:

Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)

 

[mjrhealth]

By the way, religion may not be the dirty word you seem to think it is. It's in the Bible:

Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)

Its far dirtier than you think,

Exo 10:3 And Moses and Aaron came in unto Pharaoh, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, How long wilt thou refuse to humble thyself before me? let my people go, that they may serve me.

Exo_7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

But still the people refuse to come out, just like the Israelites,

Exo_14:11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt.

And that is why He will have to send His workers into the highways and biways, because those whom He has called have refused to go to Him and be made ready.


You say you cant be saved by the law, than you make the law a requirement for salvation,

 

[BarneyFife]

Its far dirtier than you think,

Exo 10:3 And Moses and Aaron came in unto Pharaoh, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, How long wilt thou refuse to humble thyself before me? let my people go, that they may serve me.

Exo_7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

But still the people refuse to come out, just like the Israelites,

Exo_14:11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt.

And that is why He will have to send His workers into the highways and biways, because those whom He has called have refused to go to Him and be made ready.


You say you cant be saved by the law, than you make the law a requirement for salvation,

I just figured it out. "You are wrong" is fine as long as it's coming from your keyboard. That's pretty hypocritical coming from someone who constantly bemoans dispute over orthodoxy.

 

[mjrhealth]

I just figured it out. "You are wrong" is fine as long as it's coming from your keyboard. That's pretty hypocritical coming from someone who constantly bemoans dispute over orthodoxy.

Well I really care less, no skin off my nose, but all you are selling is religion, not salvation, all you are doing is trading one denomination for another, as for being wrong, are you not doing same to the cathlolics, your only right if its your religion. Yes many will as it says,

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

But men would rather their religions and following there doctrines and men.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well I really care less

More hypocrisy. Nice.

 

[BarneyFife]

all you are selling is religion, not salvation, all you are doing is trading one denomination for another, as for being wrong, are you not doing same to the cathlolics, your only right if its your religion.

Matthew 28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[farouk]

Great thread and topic barney !


Galatians 3:1-14
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us — for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE" — 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:21-27
For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:15-17
15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

And why not include the words of Jesus which go right to the heart of the matter !

Matthew 22:37-40
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

hope this helps !!!

@Christophany Justification is a really searching doctrine that indeed needs to be thoroughly grasped. It was just about the central doctrine of the Reformation.

 

[mjrhealth]

Matthew 28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Has He sent you?? Did he knock on your door and send you, and what has your religion have to do with that. Any man can justify his religion, but few are willing to walk away from it for His sake, few, religion is all about works, just liek teh LAw, its not of faith.

Luk 10:38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
Luk 10:42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

no very few are willing.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sorry. My parents expected me to obey them when I was a child. When I learned that God was my Heavenly Father and that He expected me to obey, too, it just seemed perfectly natural. Didn't mean to disappoint you.

Without faith, we cannot please God, religions is not obedience....

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think if you actually did the math, you'd see a different picture.

That was then. This is now. Tolerance to a fault is the order of the day.

But it is part of it.

They actually kinda do help.

Righteousness is right-doing. Living out righteousness through Christ in the Spirit. It sounds like obedience to some elusive standard.

Where is all of this happening?

What is "supposed service to God?"

I'm just trying to be honest here. Don't mean to pick on you. And I don't insist that anyone should agree with me, but I fear that something has slipped away that is really essential to spiritual life. The PC movement has fully infiltrated the church and if people who recognize this don't sound the warning, the blood of the unwarned will be on our heads and hands. I asked my dad a few months ago if he'd ever heard anyone in church say that the ten commandments (any of them) were nailed to the Cross. He'd never heard of such a thing. He went to church every Sunday of his childhood, which was mostly in the 1940s and 50s. I'd never heard it until 30 years ago myself.

Col 2.13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

The 10 Commandments were delivered to Israel as part of the Law, as part of the Old Covenant legal agreement between God and Israel. Part of the charge of Israel's "legal indebtedness" had to do with their failure to abide by the 10 Commandments. As such, the charges, and the laws that charged them, were nailed to Christ so that he took the punishment for this. And no law therefore remains to condemn us if he himself releases us from all these charges.

 

[mjrhealth]

More hypocrisy. Nice.

Hypocrisy, we all get to choose, you chose religion over Him... you chose the Harlot church over His beautiful bride. What you fail to understand, is all mens religions are daughters of the harlot, so when you dispute with that other mob. all you are doing is fight mum. Which of you is the most beautiful, but theyre all ugly.

 

[Brakelite]

PROOF THAT THE SABBATH REMAINS
Although there is a wealth of proof that the Ten-Commandment law and the Sabbath were confirmed by an obedient New Testament Church, I would like to focus on one area of evidence that is often overlooked or misinterpreted. We find it in Hebrews 4, and it probably constitutes the most convincing single reference in favor of Sabbath-keeping to be found in the Bible.

As a little background, we need to examine the thrust of the whole book of Hebrews. The writer of this letter is showing how many of the elements of the old covenant have been taken away. We can almost feel the anguish of the Hebrew believers as Paul explains to them how the sacrificial system has been taken away, having been fulfilled in Christ. The Levitical priesthood has been removed, being replaced by Christ our High Priest. Were they waiting fearfully to hear him take away the Sabbath also? If so, they must have been tremendously relieved when he wrote these words, “There remaineth therefore a ‘keeping of the sabbath’ (see margin) to the people of God” (Hebrews 4:9). I am using the marginal reading of the King James Version because that is the exact, literal meaning of the original statement.

The context of Hebrews three and four does not indicate that Paul was trying to convince the Hebrew Christians which day to keep holy. They already knew that. His great burden was for them to enter into a spiritual relationship with Christ—to have an experience of rest from the works of sin. He proved that the children of Israel did not find that true rest because of their lack of faith and disobedience in the wilderness. Although the Greek word for rest, KATAPAUSIS, means simply “cessation from work,” the context seems to indicate that the author is talking primarily about finding a spiritual rest in their experience.

Nevertheless, the two chapters definitely tie the spiritual rest to the Seventh-day Sabbath-keeping initiated and commanded by God in the beginning. Otherwise, we would not find in verse four a direct quote from Genesis 2:2. “For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works” (Hebrews 4:4).

The reason for citing God’s resting on the Sabbath from His work of creation is revealed only when we analyze verses nine and ten. Paul says that what remains for God’s people is not KATAPAUSIS (a spiritual rest), but SABBATISMAS, meaning a literal keeping of the Sabbath. Then in verse ten we find the real key which proves beyond a question that the SABBATISMAS rest was not spiritual only, but a cessation from physical work. “For he that is entered into his rest (KATAPAUSIS—spiritual rest), he ALSO (in addition to the spiritual rest) hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.”

The big question about this verse focuses on the works which one ceases from. Are they works of sin? Are they works to obtain salvation? Or are they the physical works from which we cease on the Sabbath? The answer is plainly revealed by the phrase “AS GOD DID FROM HIS.” Go back to verse four and we begin to understand why this quote from Genesis is included in Paul’s discourse. It is necessary to establish which works God did rest from. God ceased from His physical work of creation on the seventh day, and we are admonished to cease from ours, as He did from His. He did not just enter into a spiritual rest on the seventh day or we might conclude that He was not at spiritual rest on the first six days. The fact is that God is always at spiritual rest. Neither did He have any works of sin or the flesh to cease from. He simply rested on the seventh day from His work of creation, and we are being told by Paul that the ones who truly have received the spiritual rest of salvation will ALSO cease from their physical works on the Sabbath, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.

Excellent explanation, particularly of Hebrews 4.

 

[Brakelite]

We should only "scrap" what the Lord Himself has "scrapped." On the cross Jesus himself put away any need, under the Law, for further attempts at self-justification. Works of the Law could never, after all, self-justify. They could only provide obedience, resulting in temporal blessings--they could not bring eternal life.

Totally agree with this. Sabbath keeping included. Observing Sabbath can never improve or add to what Christ accomplished on calvary. So when someone says they observe Sabbath, why is it you do an about face and tell them they are working their way to heaven when here you correctly say such a thing is impossible?

 

[quietthinker]

Hypocrisy, we all get to choose, you chose religion over Him... you chose the Harlot church over His beautiful bride. What you fail to understand, is all mens religions are daughters of the harlot, so when you dispute with that other mob. all you are doing is fight mum. Which of you is the most beautiful, but theyre all ugly.

you run yourself in circles with unpersuasive words.

 

[Brakelite]

I've heard people teach that we have to prove ourselves to God Himself through our dedication to keeping His Laws, and in that way we might become reborn, if we do well enough.

Wow. That's really weird. Sounds cultish like. And would lead ultimately to despair and anguish seeing that except we are born again there is absolutely no hope of ever keeping God's laws. The harder one works at obedience the more frustrating and despairing the life. Very sad.

 

[farouk]

Hebrews 7 says that the law was changed and what we now have is better than the law.

 

[Brakelite]

Hebrews 7 says that the law was changed and what we now have is better than the law.

That text referred only to the specific law which designated The tribe of Levi as priests. The law that dealt with the sanctuary service. The law had to be changed to accommodate the priesthood of Christ who was born of the tribe of Judah.

 

[farouk]

That text referred only to the specific law which designated The tribe of Levi as priests. The law that dealt with the sanctuary service. The law had to be changed to accommodate the priesthood of Christ who was born of the tribe of Judah.

The chapter goes on to say that what we now have is better than the law.

 

[quietthinker]

Hebrews 7 says that the law was changed and what we now have is better than the law.

farouk, because another has paid your fine for breaking the law and you are now liberated from paying its penalty, does that mean the law is scrapped? does it mean it no longer makes its claims on you? does it mean it was changed so that you are guiltless when breaking it? does that mean you can disregard it with impunity?.....or do you just want permission to break the precepts of the 10 Commandments, mouth truisms and be guiltless?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Totally agree with this. Sabbath keeping included. Observing Sabbath can never improve or add to what Christ accomplished on calvary. So when someone says they observe Sabbath, why is it you do an about face and tell them they are working their way to heaven when here you correctly say such a thing is impossible?

I'm saying that when the Law was in effect it could bring temporal blessings to Israel when they obeyed God's commandments and rules. But that Covenant had a time stamp on it, namely when Israel completely failed under the Covenant to keep their part of the agreement. God had to cancel and annul it.

At the same time, God replaced that failed Covenant with a brand new covenant, the New Covenant. The Old Covenant, wanting to bring blessings to a whole nation, showed that this blessing could not last for any length of time. The Law itself would reveal all of the moral failings within the nation. Even if the failure started small, it spread like leaven all through the lump. It spread like mold all through the house.

So the New Covenant, although it also wishes to bring blessings to godly nations, focuses on final redemption for those who wish to succeed with God, and not turn to apostasy and false religion. If we live in righteousness, we will experience a degree of blessing, together with persecution. If an entire nation turns to righteousness, there will be blessings in that nation.

However, turning to righteousness in the NT time period no longer means turning to rituals of atonement, using physical elements to portray the need for final redemption.

Animal sacrifices only did this to show that Israel needed God's forgiveness regularly, and in the end, needed Christ himself as a perfectly righteous sacrifice. He simultaneously became the source of our forgiveness, by bearing our sins, and the source of our righteousness through the Spirit. And so, we turn to a perfect standard, and to a complete forgiveness.

Sabbath observance is one of those rituals that merely portrayed a need for final redemption. The Sabbath was a regular performance required under that Covenant to display the fact Israel was still unclean by Law, and still prohibited from entering God's eternal Kingdom.

They had to rest periodically, to show the need to end, at least for a time, a display of the sin that prevented them from experiencing final redemption. They had to give the land rest from their regular display of sin, which regularly cursed the land with bloodshed and lawlessness. If they ceased form working, at least for a while, their sins would be quieted, if only externally.

Now that Christ has already provided that final redemption, we no longer need to imitate the need to rest from our sins. They are forgiven. The only thing we have to display is the righteousness of Christ, which was never subject to the Law, since he was sinless. The Law was only given on behalf of sinners.