Come to the River

[VictoryinJesus]

so it becomes a matter of perspective

Who changes the perspective?

 

[bbyrd009]

Who changes the perspective?

well hey, look, at the end of the day God does everything, yes, God even creates evil, God is essentially the only thing that exists, right. So, totally true, sure, completely irrelevant to our purposes also, imo

so imo the Ego changes the perspective, the separation changes "the" perspective
the river changes the perspective too though i guess

what is currently true may shortly be false
he who says he knows anything does not yet know

 

[Frank Lee]

I don't SNEER at you nor any. I just am perplexed. Many questions will be answered for all by yielding to God's Holy Spirit. Asking God rather than man is first choice.

The artificial atmosphere of conversing only in text on these forums will never bring complete enlightenment.

 

[bbyrd009]

Who changes the perspective?

who convinces a Southern Plantation Owner that slave ownership is immoral?
if you can think of some other ways to phrase the Q they might be useful;
even apparently silly ways, like this one.

fwiw i could direct you into disciplines that would allow you to...disengage from your present pov?
but being as how they are in the river--likely are the river--they also cause division

this is for someone else i guess, you have already changed your pov, could change it again prolly,
you can even do it at will now huh?

 

[Frank Lee]

Victoryinjesus;

Your name is a true statement. I see you not yielding to him though and to his Holy Spirit. I am not being critical when I tell you I discern your nearly always troubled spirit.

The simple act of giving yourself for once and for all to his will bring blessed peace and put your mind at rest. You will then be able to lay these things at his feet. My care for you is in a prayer.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Victoryinjesus;

Your name is a true statement. I see you not yielding to him though and to his Holy Spirit. I am not being critical when I tell you I discern your nearly always troubled spirit.

The simple act of giving yourself for once and for all to his will bring blessed peace and put your mind at rest. You will then be able to lay these things at his feet. My care for you is in a prayer.

I will consider your words especially the “I discern your nearly always troubled spirit.” Thank you for prayer.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I came not to bring peace, but a sword

um, boy, and i'm not even sure what i might say to anyone who holds that the Pure Water is Holy Water...in forums i guess i would say "get behind me" and irl "have a nice day." You are not called to change others' minds for them, after all

He does both. “I came not to bring peace, but a sword.” Division. But we must not stop there right? That is not the final conclusion but only a part John 20:21-22 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. [22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them , and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

well, i agree and i don't, an analogue might be that i obviously cannot change your mind, and i also cannot help but change your mind, so it becomes a matter of perspective imo. You are the Body of Christ, you are called to pick up your cross and follow, and i doubt that God is going to pick your cross up for you, tbh, and that is work no matter how you slice it imo.

So i don't disagree, but imo that statement, "He does the work in a person’s life,"
should always be considered in light of "You will be judged for your works."

and imo let The Greeks worship Jesus if they want to

Cant find where you commented on God created evil. Again, what is the end result? God is Always always good.

Mark 9:39
[39] But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

Jeremiah 15:3
[3] And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord : the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.

Matthew 15:26-28
[26] But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. [27] And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. [28] Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Genesis 50:17-21
[17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him. [18] And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants. [19] And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? [20] But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. [21] Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them.

 

[bbyrd009]

"The root-verb נהר (nahar I) means to flow or stream. This verb occurs in several cognate languages, with the same meaning. Although our verb primarily describes the flowing of a river or stream, in the Bible it's connected only to people movements (Isaiah 2:2, Jeremiah 51:44). It occurs about half a dozen times, but its sole derivative occurs much more often:

The masculine noun נהר (nahar) means river or stream (Genesis 2:10, Numbers 24:6, Isaiah 48:18). This word is applied to rivers like the Euphrates and the rivers of Eden, but curiously, never to the Jordan, or the Nile. This last river is called יאר (ye'or), which is probably a loan-word, although it comes close to אור ('or), which is the Hebrew word for light." Relativity Theory and ancient Hebrew: the liquidity of light

prolly pertinent, keep in mind if you go to the link for other insight that you do not have to accept his premises for his facts to be valid, for instance the illumination here @ the diff in Euphrates/Eden rivers v the Jordan/Nile ones in Scripture, who even knew?

 

[bbyrd009]

I will consider your words especially the “I discern your nearly always troubled spirit.” Thank you for prayer.

an excellent way to be perceived as superior i guess
(that works on both levels! Ha!)

 

[Frank Lee]

an excellent way to be perceived as superior i guess
(that works on both levels! Ha!)

Even though you have a greatly grating way about you I still feel for you. Bandying words about serves no constructive purpose. Enjoy yourself by never offering anything but wounds to the readers. What made you like this?

You are as a child that only finds satisfaction in ridiculing others. Do you never say anything good? Do you wonder that you are rejected? Attack as visciously as you will for God's not in it. The devil will offer the same encouragement as you. I've noticed the similarity!

 

[bbyrd009]

Even though you have a greatly grating way about you I still feel for you. Bandying words about serves no constructive purpose. Enjoy yourself by never offering anything but wounds to the readers. What made you like this?

You are as a child that only finds satisfaction in ridiculing others. Do you never say anything good? Do you wonder that you are rejected? Attack as visciously as you will for God's not in it. The devil will offer the same encouragement as you. I've noticed the similarity!

yes, i am a hypocrite, you got me there, so imo your post should also be considered
on its merits

 

[Frank Lee]

I still feel for you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"The root-verb נהר (nahar I) means to flow or stream. This verb occurs in several cognate languages, with the same meaning. Although our verb primarily describes the flowing of a river or stream, in the Bible it's connected only to people movements (Isaiah 2:2, Jeremiah 51:44). It occurs about half a dozen times, but its sole derivative occurs much more often:

The masculine noun נהר (nahar) means river or stream (Genesis 2:10, Numbers 24:6, Isaiah 48:18). This word is applied to rivers like the Euphrates and the rivers of Eden, but curiously, never to the Jordan, or the Nile. This last river is called יאר (ye'or), which is probably a loan-word, although it comes close to אור ('or), which is the Hebrew word for light." Relativity Theory and ancient Hebrew: the liquidity of light

prolly pertinent, keep in mind if you go to the link for other insight that you do not have to accept his premises for his facts to be valid, for instance the illumination here @ the diff in Euphrates/Eden rivers v the Jordan/Nile ones in Scripture, who even knew?

Addressing your often reference to ‘pick up your cross and follow Me’: Proverbs 22:13 The slothful man saith, There is a lion without, I shall be slain in the streets.

Proverbs 26:13
[13] The slothful man saith, There is a lion in the way; a lion is in the streets.

Addressing the River of Life consider: Isaiah 66:12-16 For thus saith the Lord , Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. [13] As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. [14] And when ye see this , your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the Lord shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

“...and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” ...is this evil or good?

Isaiah 66:20-22
[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord , as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord . [21] And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord . [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord , so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Corinthians 4:8-15
[8] We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; [9] Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; [10] Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. [11] For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. [12] So then death worketh in us, but life in you. [13] We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; [14] Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. [15] For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

“So then death worketh in us, but life in you.” that He may be manifest (seen)in our body. “redound” a key word there.
re-dound' (from re-, "back," and undare, "to surge as a wave"):To be sent back as a reaction, to overflow;
Redound Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

 

[Enoch111]

Why have our bodies washed in the pure River of Life?

Let's focus on Hebrew 10:22:"...and our bodies washed with pure water."

It should be clear to Christians that this is NOT a reference to the water of baptism, since the context is spiritual -- the conscience, the soul and spirit. The soul (mind and will) and spirit determined the actions of the body. The Holy Spirit must control the Christian's spirit, and thus the body is *washed* each time the Christian is righteousness.

In the New Testament *water* is used as a metaphor for BOTH the written Word of God and the Holy Spirit. So that would be the application.

The Holy Spirit is presented as rivers of living water by Christ in this verse: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.(John 7:38,39)

The Scriptures are presented as water which washes the soul, and thus purifies the actions of the body. Christ sanctifies believer through the influence and impact of the Bible on their lives: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word (Eph 5:26)

This verse cannot be applied apart from Hebrews 4:12,13, where the Scriptures are said to examine the thoughts and intents of the heart, along with the Holy Spirit: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his [the Holy Spirit's] sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him [the Holy Spirit] with whom we have to do.

 

[bbyrd009]

for tomorrow g'night

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Let's focus on Hebrew 10:22:"...and our bodies washed with pure water."

It should be clear to Christians that this is NOT a reference to the water of baptism, since the context is spiritual -- the conscience, the soul and spirit. The soul (mind and will) and spirit determined the actions of the body. The Holy Spirit must control the Christian's spirit, and thus the body is *washed* each time the Christian is righteousness.

In the New Testament *water* is used as a metaphor for BOTH the written Word of God and the Holy Spirit. So that would be the application.

The Holy Spirit is presented as rivers of living water by Christ in this verse: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.(John 7:38,39)

The Scriptures are presented as water which washes the soul, and thus purifies the actions of the body. Christ sanctifies believer through the influence and impact of the Bible on their lives: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word (Eph 5:26)

This verse cannot be applied apart from Hebrews 4:12,13, where the Scriptures are said to examine the thoughts and intents of the heart, along with the Holy Spirit: For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his [the Holy Spirit's] sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him [the Holy Spirit] with whom we have to do.

Agree. But you do not connect Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

And Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Please explain then because the only ‘pure water’ that washes the body proceeds out from the throne of God. Same ‘water of life’ that washes in (Hebrews 10:22). John 4:10-15 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. [11] The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? [12] Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? [13] Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. [15] The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. (call your husband)

Do we drink of the water of life now? Does He give us ‘a well of water springing up into everlasting life.’ ...? John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (Water of life)

same ‘water of life’ given to the woman by ‘Jacob’s’ well. Revelation 21:6
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Same ‘water of life’ given to the woman by ‘Jacob’s’ well Revelation 22:1
[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Same ‘water of life’ given to the woman by ‘Jacob’s’ well Revelation 22:17
[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 13:6-11
[6] Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? [7] Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. [8] Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. [9] Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. [10] Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. [11] For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

John 15:3
[3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[Enoch111]

Please explain then because the only ‘pure water’ that washes the body proceeds out from the throne of God.

You are simply confusing two different things by taking Scriptures out of context. The river of life mentioned in Revelation has nothing to do with what is stated in Hebrews.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are simply confusing two different things by taking Scriptures out of context. The river of life mentioned in Revelation has nothing to do with what is stated in Hebrews.

Why? Explain it to me. Same wording for the river of Life in Revelation as the living water Christ gives: Come! Drink! I(God) will give to him who is thirsty a drink of water and he will never thirst again. “And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are simply confusing two different things by taking Scriptures out of context. The river of life mentioned in Revelation has nothing to do with what is stated in Hebrews.

To be fair I’m not disagreeing with you. To be upfront I’m trying to get you to at least consider the pure (living)water source is here in Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

And “Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with” and “...give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come here to draw” becomes relevant. The Water is Spiritual as so is the River proceeding out of the throne of God. You can’t keep it literal as Jacob’s well and drink from there for you will thirst again. John 4:11-15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? [12] Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? [13] Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. [15] The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.