Commanded to love God more than we love ourselves?
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Thanks for clarifying your position on this.
Question: If Jesus had quoted Aristotle, what language would he be speaking?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
If His words were recorded, the writer would have to translate from the language of the Nazarene to Greek.
All people are unique and beautiful to Yahava. I believe that God would see the need for us, to look and confide in Him, who is Spirit, and adopts people as Sons or Daughters of Yahaava to help and guide one as they live and look in faith towards the LORD GOD, Yahava.
Calling oneself a monster over something one did a long time ago, is not healthy. That is why it is also good to understand that all of your sins, and all your mistakes, in the past, have all been cleared, and Yahava looks at and calls people towards him in Love, and that is so important to understand when also attributing the spirit by walking in the Holy Spirit of God, and Spirit of Christ by abiding in Christ, allowing them to help you in your actions of reacting in life's situations, be it with people or circumstance, is to trust and to abide in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to walk by faith, and in spirit. Encouraging, uplifting, and guiding towards the right direction, though someone may disagree.. Not always popular to be a Christian, or Yeshuan following the Lord Yeshua,, but if you put Yahava first before all else, that is a relationship that one is enduring by a willingness to communicate through prayer and to abide in the spirit and provide life instead of the opposite which is taken and steal life, time, money, agenda etc.
May people be made free in liberty by the Spirit by abiding in Christ.
Calling oneself a monster over something one did a long time ago, is not healthy. That is why it is also good to understand that all of your sins, and all your mistakes, in the past, have all been cleared, and Yahava looks at and calls people towards him in Love, and that is so important to understand when also attributing the spirit by walking in the Holy Spirit of God, and Spirit of Christ by abiding in Christ, allowing them to help you in your actions of reacting in life's situations, be it with people or circumstance, is to trust and to abide in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to walk by faith, and in spirit. Encouraging, uplifting, and guiding towards the right direction, though someone may disagree.. Not always popular to be a Christian, or Yeshuan following the Lord Yeshua,, but if you put Yahava first before all else, that is a relationship that one is enduring by a willingness to communicate through prayer and to abide in the spirit and provide life instead of the opposite which is taken and steal life, time, money, agenda etc.
May people be made free in liberty by the Spirit by abiding in Christ.
Let me try another way...
Here are some article quotes on the subject. (sources provided)
Not sure about the math in the first quote. - LOL
10% + 99% = ??? (109%)
"... when Jesus quotes the Old Testament in Matthew, He uses the Hebrew text only 10% of the time, but the Greek LXX translation—90% of the time! Amazingly, Jesus and Paul used the LXX as their primary Bible. It was just like the Bible each of us holds in our hands, not the original..." Source
"Many of the Jews in Jesus' day used the Septuagint as their Bible. Quite naturally, the early Christians also used the Septuagint in their meetings and for personal reading; and many of the New Testament apostles quoted it when they wrote the Gospels and Epistles in Greek." Source
The Septuagint - The Bible translation that paved the way to Christianity. Prof. James Aitken
37,781 views Premiered Feb 4, 2023 #jewish #judaism #christianityProfessor James Aitken gives us an in-depth introduction of The Septuagint, also known as the Greek Old Testament. The translation of the Bible to Greek was a long and continuous effort of Greek speaking Egyptian Jews, starting in the 3rd century BCE, in Egypt. The project was meant to serve the Greek speaking Jewish Community in Egypt but eventually played an essential role in the spread of Early Christianity.
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It appears that there were actual separate groups of Jews.
These scriptures refer to both Hellenistc (Greek-speaking) Jews and Hebraic Jews.
- Acts 6:1
In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Hellenistic Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.
- Acts 9:29
He talked and debated with the Hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him.
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Listened to (watched) the whole video.
This is a very complex and interesting subject. (The Septuagint)
The Septuagint developed over time. With many ongoing revisions in the centuries AD. (CE)
There were more than one Septuagint. Even a Samaritan Septuagint.
The Greek Septuagint and the New Testament in Greek propelled the gospel
into the world due to the common Mediterranean language of Greek. Without The Septuagint
and the New Testament in Greek, Christianity may have been limited geographically to
Judea, Samaria and Syria. It probably would not have reached beyond that area.
When Christianity reached Rome, then Latin Bible translations were introduced.
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I think that is poorly stated. The Septuagint was formed entirely by a specific group of translators who completed their work in a relatively long time.
The different Greek translations that existed contemporaneously with that Jewish translation are not considered Septuagint just because they are translations from Hebrew to Greek. They are not necessarily versions of the Septuagint, but independent Greek translations.
So, I'll pit my theologian against your theologian and see who wins..... or, maybe we can just not try to claim that we know "the truth" that everyone else is supposed to believe.
The greatest damage to Christianity itself was in translating the scriptures into Greek.
In speaking to those who participate in Bible studies, the issues with finding truth arise because our Bible translations have blended the concept of the Father with the Son. Now, it is uncertain to whom we refer. Even in our music, we blend the two as if they are the same person. Followers of Yeshua have difficulty because the only NT manuscripts are done in Greek which confuses the two. The feature of supposing all the NT books were written orginally is Greek has served Satan's purpose quite well.
In our Old Testament books, God's name Yahweh (or Jehovah) is hidden and the word Lord is put in its place. So, when Yahweh spoke, even though He specifically told the prophets that He is Yahweh, and their is no other God. Yet, we read in our Bibles that "I am the Lord" instead of "I am Yahweh, your God."
Then, in the New Testament, John's Revelation is the only NT passage to use the name of 'Yahweh' but only as referenced as "hallelu-jah." This form God's Name is found in Revelation 19 in a few places.
There are, however, times when the NT claims to amplify the Father's name, but then never gives it.
Mt 6:8–9 Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
Mt 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!”
If we had this in Hebrew, we should expect to see "blessed is he who comes in the name of YHWH."
There should be no doubt which "Lord" was spoken of here:
Ac 15:16–21 ‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’ Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Furthermore, while we cannot see it in our English translations, we see that Yahweh referred to HImself in the plural Elohim. I would think that Yahweh's declaration that He is the Only God would keep us from thinking that He was more than one.
1Ex 3:14–15 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
Attachments
Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful reply.
I usually only hear JWs complain about this name of God issue.
It is an interesting problem though.
And oftentimes I end my prayers with: "... in your name. AMEN"
Which begs the question; What name is that?
Although traditionally the name had been unspoken for eons.
Yahweh is only our best guess after we threw a few vowels at it. ???
I imagine there are Bible translations out there that deal with this situation. ???
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There are, but only for the O.T. books. The N.T. books suffer the curse of not existing in Hebrew or Aramaic. That puts people using Greek translations to reveal Hebrew thought..
In the James Aitken video, he points to something in the Septuagint that fueled the virgin birth idea in Christianity.
Where the Hebrew text used the word for "maiden", the Septuagint used "virgin". I have heard Jews deny the virgin birth on this basis.
I wonder what else was spawned by the Septuagint.
Often in the New Testament we are alerted to things that happened to fulfill the scriptures.
I suppose we have to ask; "Which ones?"
And when we are told that ALL scriptures are "God-breathed", again; "Which ones?"
Was the Septuagint "God-breathed"? Or man-breathed? Same question for the Hebrew text.
And if one believes in inerrancy, which one is inerrant?
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We can assume that the choice to write (not translate) the New Testament in Greek was for a reason.
What do you suppose that reason was?
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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Loving God is always connected to loving others. If you cannot or do not love others then you do not love God and are deceived. The greatest commandment Jesus answered was to love God with all you mind, heart, soul and strength and your neighbor. Jesus connected the love of God with loving others. He said the whole world will know you are My disciples by how you love one another. John takes it a step further and says if you don't love others then you don't love God either.
James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
John 13:34-35
34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
John 15:13
13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:17
17 "This I command you, that you love one another
Matt 22:37-40
And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
1 John 2:3-6
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
1 John 3:14-19
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.
1 John 4:7-14
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
1 John 4:16-21
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.
What biblical love looks like in the mirror. Paul defines love below and what it should look like in the Christians life
1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Galatians 5:22-25
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
James 2
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
1 Peter 1- Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,
“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.
1 Peter 2:8- Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
2 Peter 1- For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
In the above we can see Jesus, Paul, John, Peter and James are all saying the same thing in unison.
hope this helps !!!
I suppose this is where I'll just disagree and press one. I do not believe that the fishermen spoke Greek or that Jesus did either.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
One of the more intriguing bits of trivia I've picked up...
The Gospels themselves have evidence of underlying Aramaic sources. For example, in recounting one of Jesus's harsher interchanges with the Pharisees, Matthew has:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess! Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also! (Matthew 26:22-23)
While Luke, recounting the same incident, has:
But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you! (Luke 11:41)
"Give alms" makes no sense in the context. However, some academic dude with a curious mind and too much time on his hands translated the Gospels into Aramaic and noted that the Aramaic for "give alms" ("zakkau") looks very much like the Aramaic for "cleanse" ("dakkau"). One letter difference. Using the same source document (or one whose scribe had better penmanship), Matthew's editor picked up on the difference; Dr. Luke (for whom Aramaic was probably not his native language) did not.
Source: Ian Wilson, Jesus: The Evidence
The Gospels themselves have evidence of underlying Aramaic sources. For example, in recounting one of Jesus's harsher interchanges with the Pharisees, Matthew has:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess! Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also! (Matthew 26:22-23)
While Luke, recounting the same incident, has:
But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you! (Luke 11:41)
"Give alms" makes no sense in the context. However, some academic dude with a curious mind and too much time on his hands translated the Gospels into Aramaic and noted that the Aramaic for "give alms" ("zakkau") looks very much like the Aramaic for "cleanse" ("dakkau"). One letter difference. Using the same source document (or one whose scribe had better penmanship), Matthew's editor picked up on the difference; Dr. Luke (for whom Aramaic was probably not his native language) did not.
Source: Ian Wilson, Jesus: The Evidence
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