Confessing your sins one to another James 5

[St Columcille]

It was Christ who instituted the sacrament of Reconciliation when He commanded His Apostles to go out and whatever sins they forgive are forgiven and whatever sins they retained they are retained. Therefore, the sacrament of Reconciliation came from God, not from men.

John 20:21-23 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained

I would have to say that a person who asks God for forgiveness, yet cannot ask forgiveness to the others whom he has offended in secret or in the open, hasn't true contrition for his actions. One must be self reflective to the point that the prayer before God is instituted through the visual signs of his Church. God established a Levitical priesthood in the O.T., was God not capable to forgive sins even though he commanded animal sacrifice through his priests? It was a visual sign then, it is a visual sign now. Good post Selene.

 

[Foreigner]

It was Christ who instituted the sacrament of Reconciliation when He commanded His Apostles to go out and whatever sins they forgive are forgiven and whatever sins they retained they are retained. Therefore, the sacrament of Reconciliation came from God, not from men.

John 20:21-23 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained

-- And who are the Apostles today? None of the Apostles Jesus spoke to were clergy. So why would this be required of only clergy today?


All who follow Christ today are His apostles, no? He expects all of us to go out and witness and share His Word. But are all who have accepted Christ, are they all where they should be with Christ? This includes priests, pastors, etc.


Do they have the ability to discern when a person talking to them about a sin is truly sorry? If not, then there are some out there who will say a sin is forgiven when, because the person who confessed wasn't really sorry, isn't really deserving of forgiveness.


But if that person says, "My priest says God has forgiven me. Since he is God's representative it must be true" how can you say he is wrong? You would have to judge the priest yourself to know the answer.


Once more, if that person (priest, pastor, whatever) isn't convinced that person is sincere (after all they are humans and ALL humans make mistakes), a person who is sincere in seeking forgiveness and repentence could be told they are NOT forgiven.


I once had a priest fall asleep on me during Confession. His snoring was a giveaway. He had been in the Confessional for a couple of hours and I likely wasn't the only one. He recovered nicely and (though he didn't hear half of what I confessed) said my sins were forgiven and gave me my mandatory "Our Fathers" and "Hail Marys."


I was in 6th grade at the time and had made up the majority of what I said I did (as several of my classmates in Catholic school had to do for weekly confession when we didn't have a clue as to what to say we were sorry for but were forced by the nuns to go to confession.)


If you are TRULY seeking God's forgivness on your knees, scripture says He will and has forgiven you.


The Holy Spirit prompts you if there is more you should do, but if you are Christian you should already know that if you have harmed someone through thought or deed, you should - if possible - approach them and seek forgiveness.


Stating that a human being has to tell you this or your sins aren't forgiven is completely - and I do mean COMPLETELY - ridiculous.


By your very belief, if a person who discovers they need Jesus falls on his knees, asks forgiveness for his sins and asks Jesus to be his Lord and Savior, he isn't saved because he didn't confess his sins to 'an apostle.'


My very best friend and another friend of his helped lead me to the Lord by praying with me in a restaurant book late one night. I told God I was sorry for my sins, asked him into my life to be my Lord and Savior, and promised to follow Him from that point on.


If I was to believe what you say, since neither of them were ordained and/or I didn't detail every sin I had committed and they then told me I was forgiven, I didn't become a child of God.


Sorry, but what you say is wrong.

 

[Selene]

-- And who are the Apostles today? None of the Apostles Jesus spoke to were clergy. So why would this be required of only clergy today?


All who follow Christ today are His apostles, no? He expects all of us to go out and witness and share His Word. But are all who have accepted Christ, are they all where they should be with Christ? This includes priests, pastors, etc.

There is a difference between an Apostle and a disciple. The Apostles were priests and bishops. Christ deliberately chose 12 Apostles from His many disciples and set them apart because He called only these to become bishops. Christ only had His Apostles with Him during the Last Supper. When He told them to do this in memory of Him, He was telling it to only the Apostles, not to all His disciples. This was when He ordained them the office of the priesthood. The office of the bishop existed (See 1 Timothy 3:1).

Do they have the ability to discern when a person talking to them about a sin is truly sorry? If not, then there are some out there who will say a sin is forgiven when, because the person who confessed wasn't really sorry, isn't really deserving of forgiveness.

It was Christ Himself who told His Apostles to forgive sins and to retain sins (See John 20:23). God gave the Apostles the Holy Spirit to make that discernment. Thus, our priests and bishops can also make the same discernment through the Holy Spirit, who is also God. Afterall, we also make the same kind of discernment when a person who has hurt us ask for our forgiveness.

If a person cheats on his wife and then asks forgiveness, his wife can forgive him. But then, he goes out and cheats on her again and again he comes back asking forgiveness. She forgives him. Then he does it again and again and again. Is this person truely repentant of his sins? If he is really sorry of his sins, he would enroll himself in marriage counseling to deal with his infidelity. I'm sure that even his wife can figure out whether he is truely repentant or not.

If you are TRULY seeking God's forgivness on your knees, scripture says He will and has forgiven you.


The Holy Spirit prompts you if there is more you should do, but if you are Christian you should already know that if you have harmed someone through thought or deed, you should - if possible - approach them and seek forgiveness.


Stating that a human being has to tell you this or your sins aren't forgiven is completely - and I do mean COMPLETELY - ridiculous.


By your very belief, if a person who discovers they need Jesus falls on his knees, asks forgiveness for his sins and asks Jesus to be his Lord and Savior, he isn't saved because he didn't confess his sins to 'an apostle.'

I see nothing wrong going to God and asking His forgiveness. I have no problems with that. However, I also don't see anything wrong with going to a priest because it was God who instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation. God always works through humans to accomplish His will. So, when a person goes to a priest, it is not the priest who forgives the person's sins....it is actually God Himself speaking through the priest. This is why God instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He does it because God always works with and through humans to accomplish His will. Furthermore, confessing your sins to a human fosters humility, which is always pleasing to God.

 

[Foreigner]

The Apostles were priests and bishops.

-- Silly me, I thought they were fishermen, tax collectors, etc. etc.
I seem to remember Jesus having problems with priests...

It was Christ Himself who told His Apostles to forgive sins and to retain sins (See John 20:23). God gave the Apostles the Holy Spirit to make that discernment. Thus, our priests and bishops can also make the same discernment through the Holy Spirit, who is also God.

-- Actually, all Christians who truly and continually seek Christ with their whole heart are given discernment by the Holy Spirit. And that can include when they themselves are on their knees confessing their own sins.

20 years as a Catholic has allowed me to meet many very special and godly Priests. I have also known, through SEARCH weekends and multiple retreats, a number of alcoholic, abusive, and/or sexually compromised priests who were still carrying out their functions, absent the discernment of the Holy Spirit.

If a person cheats on his wife and then asks forgiveness, his wife can forgive him. But then, he goes out and cheats on her again and again he comes back asking forgiveness. She forgives him. Then he does it again and again and again. Is this person truely repentant of his sins? If he is really sorry of his sins, he would enroll himself in marriage counseling to deal with his infidelity. I'm sure that even his wife can figure out whether he is truely repentant or not.

-- A priest has no way of knowing the level of sincerity any better than the wife. And since Jesus Himself said the person is to be forgiven "seventy times seven" times, there is little recourse but to forgive.

Yes, a priest can recommend counseling. So can a wife...or a friend...or Dr. Phil....or an atheist.

I can speak from decades of experience, including confessing multiple fake sins in Catholic school due to compulsary weekly confession (we simply couldn't think of anything to confess), that many priest in the confessional are definitely not using discernment granted by the Holy Spirit.

I see nothing wrong going to God and asking His forgiveness. I have no problems with that. However, I also don't see anything wrong with going to a priest because it was God who instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

-- However, it was not God who instituted the idea of saying multiple "Our Fathers" and Hail Marys" after being told your sins have been forgiven.

Why would someone, AFTER being told their sins have been forgiven, be required to show contrition by saying the same one or two memorized prayers over and over and over? If they don't, does that mean then that their sins AREN'T forgiven?
This requirement by the priest is man-made, not God ordained.

And save the "whatever you hold bound..." They say that your sins ARE forgiven THEN make that requirement. They do not say it is a requirement TO BE forgiven.

The Bible warns against mindless repeating of the same words over and over, yet that is what the priests require.

I can see them saying that final forgiveness is conditional upon approaching the person they hurt and seeking their forgiveness, but in 20 years of being a Catholic I was never once required by a priest to do that.

God always works through humans to accomplish His will. So, when a person goes to a priest, it is not the priest who forgives the person's sins....it is actually God Himself speaking through the priest.

-- Again, the problem here is that humans are flawed, including priests. That can lead to people being told they are forgiven when they truly aren't sorry, and conversely, people who are truly sorry being told they need to take further unnecessary steps before forgiveness is granted.

That is why an intimate relationship with God is essential, including nurturing your relationship with the Holy Spirit so you both know you are forgiven and what additional steps (if any) you should take to satisfy God.

A priest in a box who doesn't even know you or what is in your heart isn't close to being the best choice of options.

Furthermore, confessing your sins to a human fosters humility, which is always pleasing to God.

-- Unfortunately, confessing your sins through a screen to a person who can neither see you or recognize you, usually while a line of people are waiting outside the confessional for their turn, hardly fosters the intimacy and humility necessary to be of use.

Personal experience shows that sitting with a Christian friend whose judgement you trust, or with the person you are seeking forgiveness from is the very best way to "foster humility."

 

[Selene]

-- Silly me, I thought they were fishermen, tax collectors, etc. etc.
I seem to remember Jesus having problems with priests...

My friend, Jesus never had a problem with the priest because in the first place it was God who set up the priesthood in the Old Testament and even in the New Testament. It was always the SINS of men that God had a problem with.

-- A priest has no way of knowing the level of sincerity any better than the wife. And since Jesus Himself said the person is to be forgiven "seventy times seven" times, there is little recourse but to forgive.

Yes, a priest can recommend counseling. So can a wife...or a friend...or Dr. Phil....or an atheist.

I can speak from decades of experience, including confessing multiple fake sins in Catholic school due to compulsary weekly confession (we simply couldn't think of anything to confess), that many priest in the confessional are definitely not using discernment granted by the Holy Spirit.

You easily judge a priest and seem to know the heart of a priest. So, if you can know what's in the heart of the priest, one should then conclude that a priest can also know your heart as well.

-- However, it was not God who instituted the idea of saying multiple "Our Fathers" and Hail Marys" after being told your sins have been forgiven.

This goes to show that you have never been to confession. A priest would not tell a person to recite the rosary for penance.

Why would someone, AFTER being told their sins have been forgiven, be required to show contrition by saying the same one or two memorized prayers over and over and over? If they don't, does that mean then that their sins AREN'T forgiven?
This requirement by the priest is man-made, not God ordained.

Again, the priest would not let you recite the rosary for penance. They may tell you to say the "Our Father" or the Magnificat" or pray the Divine Mercy prayer, but not to recite the same prayer over and over and over as the rosary. The reason the priest tells you to recite either the "Our Father," "the Magnificat," or pray the Divine Mercy prayer is for "obedience." If one is truely repentant of their sins, being obedient such as praying a simple prayer should not be a problem. If one finds it a problem to even say the "Our Father", something is wrong.

Furthermore, one will find in the Bible that even Jesus prayed several times the same prayer over and over (Mark 14:39, Matthew 26:42-44). So, saying the same prayer even three times just as Jesus did is not a problem. Praying ernestly with your heart has never been a problem

-- Unfortunately, confessing your sins through a screen to a person who can neither see you or recognize you, usually while a line of people are waiting outside the confessional for their turn, hardly fosters the intimacy and humility necessary to be of use.

Personal experience shows that sitting with a Christian friend whose judgement you trust, or with the person you are seeking forgiveness from is the very best way to "foster humility."

I don't see why it should bother whether one confesses to a person behind a screen whom one can't see. Afterall, when you confess to God, you can't see God as well. Confessing your sins to a friend does not foster humility at all. The fact that one confesses to a stranger is what fosters humility. Why? Because a friend would never judge, but a stranger can judge. You are only playing it safe when you confess only to a friend and don't take any risks of getting hurt or put down. That is not humility at all.