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Confessing your sins one to another James 5

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by St Columcille, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. God alone in private prayer.

    12.5%
  2. To God and to those I offend

    50.0%
  3. To God, to those I offend, and through a counselor/pastor.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. To God, those I offend, and through the sacrament of confession.

    37.5%
  1. St Columcille

    St Columcille New Member

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    19 When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
    Jesus and Thomas
    24 But Thomas (who was called the Twin), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe.”



    The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition. 2008 (Jn 20:19–25). Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press.

    14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up; and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth yielded its harvest.


    The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition. 2008 (Jas 5:14–18). Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press.

    I've underlined the the passage that relate to confessing our sins to those who are leaders within the Church. I've made bold those parts which I feel touch on the nature of the confessee. As a former Protestant, I recall hearing many times that the only person we need to confess our sins to is God. Some pastors in their sermons would add that we need to confess our sins to those whom our sin affects personally. Even some more would recommend seeing professional counselors depending on the severity and/or the habitual nature of particular sins, ie., if a married spouse commited adultery once, they might recommend a marriage counselor but if a person commits homosexual acts over long periods of time the recommendation would be to further recommend a counselor who deals with such addictions. Now, in terms of the sacrament of confession, once can easily go to God in private prayer and make in sincerity an act of contrition to not repeat such offenses, but sometimes this does not give a greater accountability as there is no visual sign. Speaking of my own circumstances, I find that confessing to another Christian helps greatly. When I was a Baptist, I was able to form an accountability group with my peers that took about almost two years in the making after establishing a strong trust and knowing their personal maturity level. Long before I was a baptist, I confessed a sin to a Christian friend of mine that was a Church of Christ member, and they didn't know how to handle it and allowed me to sit with them in bible study but was rebuked and subsequently shunned. No granted, my sin was grave at that time, and I did deserve the rebuke; however, their righteousness was indeed not enough in the fact that they ignored their responsibility to pray for me and to encourage me in the healing process. Based on these experiences of being burnt by what I thought were strong Christians in the last example, and with the Gospel passage showing clearly that the disciples mentioned in the passage was indeed the original 12 disciples, as Thomas is clearly referenced, and also the fact that the Church through its prayers of its elders and those in leadership as they reflect Elijah's righteousness, I am convinced that the sacrament of confession is one of the most sacred events in the Church.

    Since this is a debate amongst a Christian forum, I am sure there is going to be some difference of opinion in regards why should one have to confess one's sins to a priest. However, what really concerns me here is the maturity of the confessee. The accountability support group I was able to muster as a Southern Baptist was fairly successful, but it took a long time to establish to avoid immature members from joining the group to avoid being burned from my other bad experience at confessing to what I thought was a mature, but turned out somewhat immature "another."
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    And call
    no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. - Matthew 23:9
     
  3. charlesj

    charlesj Member

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    Hello 'St. Columcille' ...

    Where does it say "confess your sins to the leaders?" (NOWHERE) It does say 'one to another and also 1John 1:9 is for those "in Christ" who have sinned.

    What about the Christian(s) in the church of Christ who rebuked the sin you did. What's wrong with that? They did the right thing. Why do you say "they didn't know how to handle it"? Sin is the transgression of God's law. Did you sin? Then a Christian brother SHOULD rebuke you.

    I am not talking about a "one time" sin that we all do at one time or another. I am speaking of something you "practice" and is against the law(s) of God.

    REMEBER THIS, AS A CHRISTIAN, WE DO THE BEST WE CAN DO AND CHRIST WILL MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

    May the Lord bless us as we honor and serve Him,

    charlesj
     
  4. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    Most Christians are neither Catholic nor Protestant! I believe the seven churches came into existence in seven church ages...

    The Seven Church Ages

    In which case the Protestant church is the Sardisean church. I have never in all my days heard a Philadelphian or a Laodicean preacher say anything at all against the Catholic church. We simply do not care. Now the Sardisean Southern Baptist is a place you may find sermons against the Catholic church, but (thankfully) not every non-Catholic Christian is Southern Baptist!
     
  5. St Columcille

    St Columcille New Member

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    Considering James 5 mentions the "elders" and that the gospel passage I gave earlier mentions the disciples, which were the twelve, I believe "NOWHERE" is in fact right there.

    As far as my being rebuked long ago, I already said I deserved the rebuke. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. But yes, they did not know how to handle, beside the rebuke. Let me give you another incident that is much easier to relay.
    My mother was a single parent, my dad divorced her for another woman. In the non-denomination church I was growing up in, the pastor one Mother's Day decided to preach on the perfect mother. My mother cried throughout the whole service because the ideas that he expressed were nostolgic and quite impossible for single parents, who through no fault of their own became single (whether or not they were widows or divorced by the other spouse, does not affect their role as mother). The whole church felt bad for my mother, but because he did not have any backup he continued on with his sermon notes. My mother certainly was a bad cook, so she could not live the preacher's ideals about homemaker mothers. This example I think demonstrates that some Christians, while having good intentions, make honest mistakes in dealing with those who suffer circumstances or also suffer from trauma as a result of their own sins. Again, you should read me more carefully, I said I DESERVED IT, so your "SHOULD" is not applicable. I do sin, and still struggle with certain sins, which is why I need confession.
     
  6. charlesj

    charlesj Member

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    (For some reason, the server at Christianityboard runs my words together, even if I go back and edit them with spaces. Please overlook the words running together. charlesj)
    Hello St. Columcille:

    Thanks for your response.


    I don’t want you to think I am “condemningyou” for what you said.

    Also, I am sure your mom felt badand I feel sorry for her situation. Thereis nothing good in divorce, everyone suffers.



    We all need to confess to the Fatherour sins. We have a mediator, JesusChrist, we confess to.



    [sup]8[/sup]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and thetruth is not in us. [sup]9[/sup]If we confess our sins, he is faithful andrighteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [sup]10[/sup]Ifwe say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.-1John 1:8-10



    We do not need a human being toconfess our sins unto such as a Catholic priest. Christian’sare priests. (1Peter 2:9) We have the only one that mediates betweenthe Father and us and of course that is Jesus Christ. I don’t need a dead “saint” to speak for meeither.

    All Christians are “saints.”



    You mentioned several “churches” inyou post. By the way, before the KJVBible, the Greek word translated church, ekklesia, was translated “congregation”in other bibles of that time. (Before 1611 KJV). The English changed it to “church.”



    If you get a chance, read my littlewriting “is church a religious name” and “local universal church.” I have provided the links below.



    http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13552-is-church-a-religious-name/page__p__104287#entry104287





    http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13563-local-universal-church/page__p__104465#entry104465



    Anyway, I want you to feelcomfortable writing me. We can learnfrom each other.

    May the Lord bless us,

    charlesj


     
  7. St Columcille

    St Columcille New Member

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    The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that all believers are saints and all are priests. It is clear in a Hebrews passage of which the Catechism quotes to back that statement up. So we are on the same page there. However, there are unique leadership positions in the Church given to Matthais in Acts regarding his "bishopric." While every Christian is a priest, it does not mean that each Christian pastors a "congregation." I underlined the portion in which I think you fail to comment on James 5 and on the authority given to the Apostles in John. The priest in the Catholic Church has what is known as apostolic succession in which they recieved the same authority granted to the apostles in the Gospel of John to bind or loose. The other scriptures verses you quoted, I agree with wholeheartedly. There is a need to internalize the confession to God, and a bad Catholic can go to a priest and insincerely confess their sins only to justify it and continue on, thereby only putting a bandaid to stop the bleeding, but not really repairing the wound that goes deeper to the soul. However, I find that confessing to someone does indeed point to the truthfulness of James 5 that we are to confess to one another and that the prayer of the righteous helps in the healing process. This you haven't addressed as far as I can tell. There are some Christians who by their immaturity could not be good at hearing another confession. Some may gossip it, others might think ill of you and treat you differently, and still others might treat you with the respect and love that is needed. If you do not confess your sins to other, then are you disagreeing with James 5 in its advise?
     
  8. Thankful 1

    Thankful 1 New Member

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    I would like to share a little personal history dealing with confession. After Jesus had been personally teaching me for about a year, he told me to go be cleansed. I knew he meant to go and confess my sins. Now I was not aware of any sin that had been committed by me in the last year, but I called a priest and had him come to my residence. I then confessed sins that had not been confessed before. These sins were ones I did not believe needed to be confessed until Jesus told me to do so.



    The next morning after I had confessed my sins, Jesus told me that now I was clean, and he could use me. Jesus has kept me sin free for over thirty years.



    From what Jesus had me do it tells me that there is authority within the Church. Just as there was authority in the Church before Jesus. Even though that Church was corrupt. Like Jesus said about that Church; do as they say, but not as they do.
     
  9. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Hi St. Columcille!

    I guess it depends on what is being confessed....I have some Christian friends that I would confess things to and some whom I would not. Then I would perhaps speak to my Pastor about things that I know he would understand...I agree that confessing your sins to one another and praying for one another really does help us to be free from the burden associated with unconfessed sin....at the same time, experience as taught me, as it has also taught you, that not everyone is going to view it the way that we would hope they would...I can understand why you would confess to a priest because they are trained not to be judgmental and they [as far as I understand] will then give you some things to do as penance for said confession....I am fortunate in some ways as my closest friends are not judgmental either and will pray for me concerning a matter.
    I think that we have to be wise who we share things with though!....here's an example: :huh:

    As a new christian believer [in relation to the Church] many years ago, I had a Home-group meeting at my house. There were about 30 people who attended, including the Church music leader and his wife, who were mature Christians. One day the music leaders wife was out of town for a week and her husband had to take care of himself for a time

    I was sitting in the church one Sunday morning just before the service began, when he came up to me and confessed that he went to the store the other day and brought a porn mag...and he did not know how to deal with it....
    Now I was shocked but just pretended that I wasn't.... I had nothing to say to him because I was only a newbie and did not know how to handle it... I had never delved in that area so I also had zero experience...:eek:

    I was really angry with that guy for awhile because he would have been better off confessing to another brother rather than a sister who was a baby in the Church and I felt that it was unfair that he did that...anyway I discussed it with an elder lady from that church and she kinda calmed me down a bit....He finally went to see the Pastor about it and I'm not sure what happened after that. I hope that I am a little wiser now and more able to deal with these situations when or if they occur.

    Bless ya!
     
  10. Foreigner

    Foreigner New Member

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    When I used to be a Catholic I went to confession several times.
    Each time the priest said, "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more."
    He would then have a penance for me. Something like, "Say 15 'Our Fathers' and 30 'Hail Mary's.'"

    He was of understandably going under the assumption that I was genuinely sorry for what I confessed, and I was genuinely convinced (at least to start) that him saying I was forgiven and me doing whatever penance he gave meant that I was completely forgiven and I never had to worry about it again.

    But he and I never spoke of why I did these sins or what I can do to keep from repeating them. He never spoke about apologizing to the person(s) I actually hurt or making amends to them if it was within my power.


    When I became an actual Christian and had fellowship with those who were trying to live the word, I learned what James 5 is talking about. It isn't standing in front of a group and telling people what you have done wrong (although if you have wronged a group of people that may ultimately be what you feel you should do).

    It is confessing your sins to another person and asking for their prayers and guidance. Asking them to hold you accountable and, if necessary, the assistance of others.
     
  11. St Columcille

    St Columcille New Member

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    I am, of course on the opposite end. I use to be Protestant and then am now Catholic. My experience in the confessional has always been best when done by appointment rather than the 15 minutes on a Saturday prior to Mass when there may be a line of people waiting. I have heard some parishioners say how the rite of confession was much more accessible. There is a shortage of priests, and I feel that some bishops are coming around on this point. I think that there has been a lot more married priests coming into the Church in the past decade than probably in the last century. I already know a married priest who is working on starting an Anglican Use parish, and has already started some services using an approved Roman Anglican Common Book of Prayer type services. I've never had for penance to saying 15 'Our Fathers' and 30 'Hail Mary" prayers. I have had to pray the rosary while contemplating the sorrowful mysteries, and another time I had to go through the complete stations of the cross. This seems to me very minimal. As someone about to enter into the Secular Franciscan Order, the Rule of St. Francis tells us we are to live a life of penance. My understanding of penance has changed rather dramatically through Franciscanism. Here is something from the writings of St. Francis

    And this or the like exhortation and praise all my brothers may announce with the blessing of God, whenever it may please them among whatever men they may be: Fear and honor, praise and bless God, give thanks (1 Thess. 5:18.)3 and adore the Lord God Almighty in Trinity and Unity, Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost, the Creator of all. “Do penance,” (Matt. 3:2.)4 bring forth fruits worthy of penance, (Luke 3:8.)5 for know that we must soon die. “Give and it shall be given to you;” (Luke 6:38.)6 “Forgive, and you shall be forgiven.” (Luke 6:37.)7 And if you do not forgive men their sins, the Lord will not forgive you your sins. (Mark 11:26.)8 Confess all your sins. (James 5:16.)9 Blessed are they who shall die in penitence, for they shall be in the kingdom of heaven. Woe to those who do not die in penitence, for they shall be the children of the devil, whose works they do, (John 8:44.)10 and they shall go into eternal fire. Beware and abstain from all evil, and persevere in good until the end.

    Francis of Assisi, S., & Robinson, P. (2010). Writings of Saint Francis of Assisi (54). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

    Luke 3.8 states:
    8 Bear fruits worthy of repentance. Do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our ancestor’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. 9 Even now the ax is lying at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
    10 And the crowds asked him, “What then should we do?” 11 In reply he said to them, “Whoever has two coats must share with anyone who has none; and whoever has food must do likewise.” 12 Even tax collectors came to be baptized, and they asked him, “Teacher, what should we do?” 13 He said to them, “Collect no more than the amount prescribed for you.” 14 Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what should we do?” He said to them, “Do not extort money from anyone by threats or false accusation, and be satisfied with your wages.”



    The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition. 2008 (Lk 3:8–14). Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press.

    I think it is important that the rite of confession is part of bringing about reconcilation, both in a heart toward God and in action toward those we offend. In John the Baptist's reply to the crowd, we see exactly what sort of penance we are meant to do, what are the "works of repentence?" Now, in regards to what changed in me regarding penance when going through orientation with the Secular Franciscans, penance is not absolution. They are completely seperate. Absolution is not contingent on the form of penance, the penance is meant to reflect how our sins have hurt Christ and so move us to actions of love. This is why I think the penance suggested by the priest is bare minimal, because it is something even the poorest of people can do without damaging one's fiscal responsibilities.

     
  12. TheWarIs1

    TheWarIs1 New Member

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    I always took it to mean we should confess our sins to our friends.
    They will help us to overcome
     
  13. charlesj

    charlesj Member

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    (THE CHRISTIANITYBOARD SERVER RUNS WORDS TOGETHER, SO PLEASE OVERLOOK THE WORDS RUN TOGETHER, thank you, charlesj)

    Hello Thankful1:

    I am not real sure what you mean when you say “…Jesuspersonally had been teaching me for about a year, he told me to go be cleansed… Jesus told me to do so….Jesus told me thatnow I was clean, and he could use me….Jesus has kept me sin free for overthirty years…”



    When I read this, I thought BOY, YOU HAVE A GOOD IMAGINATION.

    The last person Jesus spoke to on the earth was theapostle Paul. That’s it.

    If you mean that “as you were reading His Word for ayear, He spoke to you through His Word” then I can believe that. Also, if you say you have NOT sinned in thirtyyears I don’t buy that. You still havethe “old man” and it’s a daily fight between the new man in Christ and the oldman. The “old man” speaks to youconstantly.

    Our battles are on a daily basis and will be taking placeuntil He comes and takes us back with Him.

    [sup]10[/sup]Finally, be strong in theLord, and in the strength of his might. [sup]11[/sup]Put on the whole armor ofGod, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [sup]12[/sup]Forour wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities,against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against thespiritual hosts of wickedness in theheavenly places.” Eph 6:10-12



    As faras you not sinning for thirty years I think you need to take a close look at 1 John 1:8.



    Idon’t know you and sometimes words are harsh. I am not writing to offend you so don’t takethis that way.

    Thebottom line is Jesus is NOT speaking to ANYONE today. If you want Him to speak to you, He has leftit ALREADY WRITTEN down for ALL OF US to read, it’s called the Bible.

    JosephSmith had these kind of “discussions,” dreams and visions when he was aroundfourteen (1819. He continued to carry onand pretty soon he had a following. Theycall themselves Mormons today. You haveone group in Utah and the other in Independence, Mo.

    Mypoint here is God has seen to it that He left us His Word. Anyone can say they spoke to Jesus and getany message they want. You would haveCOMPLETE chaos if everyone would speak to Jesus. As it is, you have over 33,000 denominations.



    Maythe Lord be with us as we study His Word,

    charlesj

     
  14. St Columcille

    St Columcille New Member

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    I only wanted to say that Thankful1 needs to remember that mystical experiences that he has are not transferable to others. I do not doubt that some people have experiences, and it is not my place to discredit that experience.
    I think you are right charlesj, the Scriptures are enough. This Easter homily, it was Jesus that returned to those of his disciples that he showed himself to. Jesus did not visibly show himself to the high priest, nor to Pilate, nor any of those who participated directly to his death. It would be our own flesh that would like to come back and vindicate to these naysayers, but Christ did not do that. Because of it, it is precisely why the Scriptures are enough and such mystical experiences need to be reserved to the individual. To me, such proud boasting is an indication of pride rather than humility. Perhaps Thankful1 should be reassessing his strategy in dialogue with others. The circumstances of his mystical experience being quite different than the disciples who were attesting to his resurrection by actually touching his side and hands and feet.

    Now, what has this to do with confessing sins to one another and the maturity of those we choose to confess to?


    I'd say, without even knowing Thankful1 on a more personal level, by the statements he has made, that I would choose to avoid confessing my struggles and sins to him.
     
  15. Thankful 1

    Thankful 1 New Member

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    Charles, read the following verse.



    (John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."



    Now read a verse that tells us who it also is that God sent to teach us about him.

    (1 John 2:26-27) “ I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.



    You stated an opinion that the last person Jesus spoke to here on earth was Paul. That is you opinion and you have every right to state your opinion, but who ever told you that, and why do you believe such a false notion?



    Jesus said he would call his people out by name, and lead them. To me that says if you haven’t had Jesus call you out by name, then you are not one of his people.



    Jesus gave his people that Holy Spirit to teach them. If the Holy Spirit is not teaching you, then you will never come to know God.





    (1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”
     
  16. St Columcille

    St Columcille New Member

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    What an age we live in!

    I am thinking people have such short attention spans. Sometimes I catch myself being superglued to my Wii or my iPad, and other times I can change on a dime to a completely different subject. I was labeled as "audio dyslexia,"
    where the only thing I recall is people called me "Stevie" and I heard "Tevies," growing up and perhaps I am prone to having attention deficit disorder. I think I was forced to watch Mr. Rogers to calm me down. I was thinking we were talking about some aspects of confessing our sins to one another as a means of healing and the maturity of those who listen to others who spill their hearts out. What was that? Anyways, what was I talking about? Oh, ya. I was saying how I like to play chess....
     
  17. charlesj

    charlesj Member

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    (I WRITE IN MICROSOFT WORD AND THEN "PASTE" WHAT I'VE WRITTEN. I think this is the reason my words run together when I paste on this server??? ))





    You can believethat I am not a Christian if you want. Youuse the evidence because “I don’t hear personally a voice from Jesus nor calledby my name.”

    This “evidence”is almost like some Pentecostals that say you are not saved until youspeak in tongues.

    I was saved inAugust 31, 1970. This is a fact that Iam sure of.



    The firstscripture you quoted “John 10:1-5” is a parable were Jesus was speaking to some Pharisees whothought they were the spokesman for the Jews. Jesus was just clearing that up. He is the Gate, we all know that. How do we know that? Because we have READ it.

    He is the Way,the Truth and the Life (zoe, God Life!) –Jn 14:6.



    I didn’t have apersonal message from Jesus as you claim to have nor has He “called me by myname”. The next time you talk to Him, tellHim that Charles wants to talk to Him. Beingas He supposedly doesn’t know my name, tell Him I also have a southern Texasaccent. OK?



    Next, you askedme to read the following verse:



    (1 John2:26-27) “ I am writing these things to you about those who are trying tolead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains inyou, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches youabout all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it hastaught you, remain in him.



    You just dropthis scripture out of the air. Why isJohn writing this book? Who is he havingproblems with? Who are these people that“are trying to lead you astray…” Do youthink the pronoun “you” in this verse refers to you “Thankful1”?



    Why do you think John says in 1 John 4:1-6

    Beloved, do notbelieve every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God,for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    2 By this you know the Spirit of God: everyspirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

    3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesusis not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard wascoming and now is in the world already.

    4 Little children, you are from God and haveovercome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

    5 They are from the world; therefore theyspeak from the world, and the world listens to them.

    6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listensto us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know theSpirit of truth and the spirit of error.” ESV



    John is having a problem with the “Gnostics.” They are teaching error. They are NOT teaching truth, therefore theyhave the “spirit of error”(v.6) and not the “spirit of truth.” (v6)



    How to you test these Gnostics? John tells his audience to ask them “do you believethat Jesus has come in the flesh?”



    Gnostics believed and taught thatGod could not come into “flesh” as ALL FLESH is evil. Therefore, just ask them, “did Jesus come inthe flesh?”

    These people (Gnostics) werereferred to as “antichrists.” John saidthat there were “many of them.” (1Jn2:18)



    We don’t have this problem todaylike John did. We have a few groups likethe Jehovah Witnesses that have a problem with Jesus being Deity.

    Today, you can ask this question ifyou want. Out of a 100 people you willget the answer out of 99 of them that will reply, “yes!.” (And a good majority of them will not beChristians)



    Now let’s get to the verse you askedme to read. I want to take it incontext.



    First of all, these antichrists wereat one time among the Christians (1Jn 2:19). They were among themand then “went out” from them. If theseantichrist’s were truly of God, they would have remained with the Christians. (v.19) They broke the “koinonia”…that is, thefellowship with us. (1 John 1:7).

    It’s no wonder that they left theassembly (church) and set up opposition camps; they did not inwardly belong tothe church as their hearts were never in it.



    1 John 2:20 speaks ofthe “anointment.” (χρσμα χετεπ το γίου κα οδατεπάντες.”) You haveit from the “Holy One.” This “Holy One”is Christ (John 6:69;Acts 3:14; 4:27; etc.)

    Thereaders knew how they received an anointing (χρῖσμα), at baptism. John tells them “…I don’t have to tell youthis truth.” Every liar, antichrist’s,is not of the truth.

    Thereaders (letter of 1John) did not need teaching from the antichrists or, forthat matter, from anyone. Their anointing… received from God, remains in themand was a sufficient Teacher. This,along with verses 12-14, may imply that John’s readers were relatively spirituallymature, since the immature need human teachers (cf. Heb. 5:12). This is appropriateif John were addressing church leaders, but it would also suit a congregationthat had long been in the faith. Unlike the antichrists, who may have claimedsome form of inspiration, the readers’ anointingwas real, not counterfeit. Theyneeded to remain (menete, “abide”) in Him (the pronoun can refer to the anointing) and rely fully on His continuing instruction.

    Theseare people in the church that knew the truth and required no furtherteaching. The antichrist’s were tryingto teach them false doctrine on Christ. No, these Christians already knew thetruth. We need this truth today andstand firm as they did.



    Thebottom line in 1 John 2is that these Christians knew Christ (1 John 2:12-14) and needed no antichrist to teach them. They already had been taught of Christ.

    Theywere not like those of Hebrews 5:12 who needed to be re taught the ABC’s (referred to as “firstprinciples”) of Christ. (cf. Heb 6:1-3) Here in Hebrews 6 they are told to leavethese elementary teachings of Christ, the ABC’s, and move on, God willing.



    Thankful1,these are ALL teaching from the written Word of our Lord. The Lord Jesus, since Paul’s time, has NEVERspoken to mankind in a voice from heaven or a visit from heaven.

    Thenext time Jesus is heard, EVERYONE will hear Him.



    Inan earlier writing, I think I told you I never met a man beside you that Jesusspoke to, but I just remembered that I did meet a man, besides you, that hassaid that Jesus spoke to him. I met thisman in 1973 and I remember his name as Jerrod. He claimed to be a prophet in which Jesus held him in His Hand and spoketruths to him. He actually told me andseveral others that Jesus Christ placed him into His Hand and spoke to him. Jerrod was from Oklahoma and from an Indianreservation. He worked with the alcoholicIndians. I think maybe he had some ofthat firewater also.



    Idon’t wish to carry this discussion on about you speaking to Jesus. If you want to talk about another subject thenlets do that.



    Maythe Lord bless us as you and I study His Word,

    charlesj



    P.S. I am with St Columcille.... let's get back to the "thread".....

















     
  18. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    I voted for the last one. My confession would be to God, to the person/s I offend, and in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Jesus is truely present in the sacrament and one will be reconciled with God and His Church. :)
     
  19. Foreigner

    Foreigner New Member

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    If you believe what God says, though, you do not need the 'Sacrament of Reconciliation." (Confession)

    If you go into your room at home, close your door, drop to your knees and begin praising and worshiping God, He is there.

    If you then sincerely lay out your sins before Him and earnestly seek His forgiveness, you are forgiven.

    To the same degree that you would be if you were sitting in a Confessional talking to a priest.
     
  20. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    It was Christ who instituted the sacrament of Reconciliation when He commanded His Apostles to go out and whatever sins they forgive are forgiven and whatever sins they retained they are retained. Therefore, the sacrament of Reconciliation came from God, not from men.

    John 20:21-23 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained
     
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