confession and repentance

[Behold]

This whole post is about holiness, and fellowship with God, not about salvation like you are trying to make it out to be. You are talking in terms of Milk, I am discussing the meat of the Word. for whatever reason you do not see this...

"meat" : is not to try to Theologically confuse Salvation with Discipleship, as you are doing.
That isn't "meat", that is Self Righteousness.

Giving your life back to God, because He has Given His Son's life for you, to teach this......."isnt Meat".
You just think it is...

 

[Behold]

Actually…I think most in here say, oh yeah, imputation, yep, I see it. I don’t think they shut their eyes against it…
I don’t think they can really see it in the Bible or show the doctrine by the Bible. I think they just accept it.

Imputation is a difficult word to grab.
Its like the word "Propitiation"
Even the word "Sanctification" isn't clear to most believers, and that makes it more difficult for them to understand that Jesus is their Sanctification.


So, when you read..>"the imputed Righteousness of Christ".
Or you read, "God does not impute your sin to you"..

Eyeballs roll, and clarity exits the building.

What we know, is that Christ did something for us on that Cross, so that we can be accepted by God.
And if we RECEIVE it by faith, then "this Gift of Righteousness", becomes our Born again Spirit.... as we are "made righteous" and have become "the righteousness of God.....in Christ"

 

[amigo de christo]

Father santicfy them in thy truth , THY WORD IS TRUTH . JESUS IS OUR SANTIFICATION . Now let all that draws breath
both praise and thank the LORD .
And ps , let none enter into convenant with ROME .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Paul rejects his own righteousness - the state of being right based on having done the right things - in favor of having God's righteousness - which infinitely exceeds his own righteousness - and which comes, not by doing the right things, but by trusting in God.

But this requires more explanation because yes, that’s what Paul did, sought after the righteousness of Christ that would come to him through trust. It comes through trust. Not “imputed” but actually having the unimpeded and radical trust Jesus had, and walking in the Spirit. And until then, why would you have to insist you had some “imputed” something other than forgiveness and being led by the Spirit?

I could almost think the men who came up with imputed righteousness were puzzled at how one could be in Him who had no sin in Him while simultaneously sinning, so that’s what they came up with rather than saying, okay, I know He is in me and I know He guides me to truth, but I also know there is not one speck of sin IN Him, therefore I must not yet be IN Him, though He is unmistakably in ME…

 

[Taken]

Your inability admit you are wrong shows your lack of humility as well....despite the text saying otherwise.

There it’s settled. You did not call me wrong out of humility.
I am not wrong to stand in my belief.
You did not show my belief to be in question.
You confused disagreeing as wrong. It isn’t.

You man continue fulfilling scripture over and over and over until you get it right....sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent.
What you DO is of no consequence to me.

Jesus came with a NEW BETTER TESTAMENT. You might consider looking into that so you can OVERCOME that consistent routine of sinning, repenting, sinning, repenting....as the UNCONVERTED Do.

Seeing how You are STUNNED that Preachers Preach to mixed Crowds...
You also might consider having a little discussion with your Preacher, to discover WHICH Times He Preaches Sermons:
ONLY to the Converted.
ONLY to the Believers not yet ready to commit to Conversion.
ONLY to the UnBelievers not yet with enough knowledge to Believe.

 

[marks]

It comes through trust. Not “imputed” but actually having the unimpeded and radical trust Jesus had, and walking in the Spirit. And until then, why would you have to insist you had some “imputed” something other than forgiveness and being led by the Spirit?

Philippians 3:4-11 KJV
4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

You've added, "and walking in the Spirit". While we have different concepts of what that actually refers to, in context of this discussion, however you see "walking in the Spirit", you are adding a performance requirement that the Bible does not add.

Paul says, "the righteousness which is of God by faith", you are saying, "the righteousness of God which is by walking in the Spirit, and we walk in the Spirit by faith".

I don't have to insist on anything but whatever the Bible says is the truth, so we work towards determining that.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

that’s what Paul did, sought after the righteousness of Christ that would come to him through trust. It comes through trust. Not “imputed” …

Notice this verse..

"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:”

Notice especially ..."made unto us".

See that? That is God doing that..>He is causing righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, and wisdom, to be (Imputed) or "made unto us".

"Us" is all the born again.

 

[marks]

I could almost think the men who came up with imputed righteousness were puzzled at how one could be in Him who had no sin in Him while simultaneously sinning, so that’s what they came up with rather than saying, okay, I know He is in me and I know He guides me to truth, but I also know there is not one speck of sin IN Him, therefore I must not yet be IN Him, though He is unmistakably in ME…

Our walk is by faith and not by sight. So long as you walk according to what you see, what you see will not align with faith. But when you accept in faith the Biblical teachings, and you walk according to your fiath, what you see will then align with what you believe, because you will be living according to truth, and the Spirit empowers your walk when you walk according to truth.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Her idea is, I think, that when you come to trust God, that trust itself is a righteous thing, and God recognizes that in you. @stunnedbygrace , do I have that right? Your idea of "imputation" is "attribution", that is, what it means that God imputes righteousness to you is that God acknowledges the righteousness in you? Please forgive me if I'm not representing this rightly, and let me know where I'm wrong.

Much love!

Sort of…God counts our trusting Him as righteousness/doing what is right.
Abraham believed God and God counted that trust to him as righteousness.
No, let’s not bring in a second term of “attribution!” It is the right thing for a man to do to trust God. In Gods eyes, the man does rightly to trust Him.

No, I am not saying God acknowledges the righteousness in you. He gives you a talent/a seed of trust and waits to see what you will do with it. So that wouldn’t be acknowledging righteousness in you but more…seeing what you will do with what He Himself has given you once He heals your blindness. When He sees you are faithful with a little, He entrusts you with more.

 

[marks]

I could almost think the men who came up with imputed righteousness were puzzled at how one could be in Him who had no sin in Him while simultaneously sinning, so that’s what they came up with rather than saying, okay, I know He is in me and I know He guides me to truth, but I also know there is not one speck of sin IN Him, therefore I must not yet be IN Him, though He is unmistakably in ME…

What does the Bible say is the evidence that both you are in Him, and He is in you?

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

John 14:23

 

[marks]

Sort of…God counts our trusting Him as righteousness/doing what is right.

So then God gives you credit for righteousness because you are trusting Him which is what you are supposed to do. You are right to trust God, so God considers you to be righteous, having done the right thing, trusting Him.

Is that more like it?

Much love!

 

[marks]

John 14:23

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How do you know if this has happened? How do you know He is in you? What does the Bible say?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Our walk is by faith and not by sight.

Yes. Our walk is by trusting Him rather than what we see is in us making us hopeless.

 

[MatthewG]

Romans 4:20-25

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Philippians 3:4-11 KJV
4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

You've added, "and walking in the Spirit". While we have different concepts of what that actually refers to, in context of this discussion, however you see "walking in the Spirit", you are adding a performance requirement that the Bible does not add.

Paul says, "the righteousness which is of God by faith", you are saying, "the righteousness of God which is by walking in the Spirit, and we walk in the Spirit by faith".

I don't have to insist on anything but whatever the Bible says is the truth, so we work towards determining that.

Much love!

Walking in the Spirit is not a man working. It is God working…

 

[MatthewG]

Believe.

 

[marks]

Walking in the Spirit is not a man working. It is God working…

Agreed. Just the same, Paul doesn't include this. It's not a righteousness that comes by works, whatever the source of those works. It is the righteousness of God which is by faith.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So then God gives you credit for righteousness because you are trusting Him which is what you are supposed to do. You are right to trust God, so God considers you to be righteous, having done the right thing, trusting Him.

Is that more like it?

Much love!

mmm…yes. Abraham believed God and God counted it to Him as righteousness.
Jennie believed God and God counted it to her as righteousness and her sins are forgiven by the Blood of Jesus sprinkled on her.
And yet, Jennie hungers for true righteousness in her inner man. She sees, by Gods grace, all her pettiness, unforgiveness , lack of love, resentments, angers, etc. So she hungers and thirsts for true righteousness in her inner man. She hungers to actually BE like her Lord, so she picks up her cross and follows.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Agreed. Just the same, Paul doesn't include this. It's not a righteousness that comes by works, whatever the source of those works. It is the righteousness of God which is by faith.

Much love!

okay, but that agreement didn’t seem to be there a moment ago when you said,
“however you see "walking in the Spirit", you are adding a performance requirement that the Bible does not add.”
God makes a place for righteous men. He also makes a place for men who walk in the Spirit, in holiness. So I’m not adding a performance requirement. You will live forever. Men who walk in holiness will also live forever. No requirement has been added to live forever. If you’ve received the down payment of the Holy Spirit, you will never die.