Connecting the dots = a pre-tribulation rapture.

[Davidpt]

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Pretribbers use this as proof text for a Pretrib rapture.

Except it's pretty silly if the wife and bridegroom are in heaven and that the 5 foolish virgins are still on the earth, that the other virgins would be saying to someone light years away--Lord, Lord, open to us. Keeping in mind that when they are outside knocking on the door, it is when the marriage is underway. And that Pretrib has the marriage taking place in heaven light years away from the earth where the foolish virgins would obviously have no access to from earth. Therefore, when the marriage is taking place, Christ has to obviously be bodily on the earth at the time in order for the 5 foolish virgins to be outside knocking, begging for Him to open up and let them in.

 

[sondring7]

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Pretribbers use this as proof text for a Pretrib rapture.

Except it's pretty silly if the wife and bridegroom are in heaven and that the 5 foolish virgins are still on the earth, that the other virgins would be saying to someone light years away--Lord, Lord, open to us. Keeping in mind that when they are outside knocking on the door, it is when the marriage is underway. And that Pretrib has the marriage taking place in heaven light years away from the earth where the foolish virgins would obviously have no access to from earth. Therefore, when the marriage is taking place, Christ has to obviously be bodily on the earth at the time in order for the 5 foolish virgins to be outside knocking, begging for Him to open up and let them in.

++++Pretribbers use this as proof text for a Pretrib rapture.
Not me

 

[Davidpt]

++++Pretribbers use this as proof text for a Pretrib rapture.
Not me

Correction then--I won't paint it with a broad brush in that case. Some Preteribbers but not all Preteribbers use this as proof text for a Preterib rapture because they have the marriage taking place in heaven but ignoring that during the wedding they are outside knocking.

According to Google's AI after asking it the following---Do pretribbers ever use the 10 virgins parable to support that the rapture happens pretrib. If yes, what do they typically argue that proves to them this parable proves a Pretrib rapture?

----------
This AI:

Yes, pre-tribulationists (pretribbers) frequently use the Parable of the Ten Virgins (Matthew 25:1-13) to defend the pre-tribulation rapture, although eschatological scholars are actually split on whether the parable applies to the Church or to Israel at the Second Coming.
When pretribbers do use this parable to support a pre-tribulation rapture, they typically rely on the following theological and symbolic arguments:

1. The Analogy of Jewish Wedding Customs

Pre-tribulation eschatology heavily relies on ancient Galilean wedding traditions to explain the rapture. Proponents argue the parable fits this timeline perfectly:
• The Betrothal: Christ betrothed the Church and departed to His Father's house to prepare a place for her (John 14:2-3).
• The Imminent, Secret Arrival: The bridegroom returns unexpectedly—symbolized by the midnight cry.
• The Abduction/Rapture: He snatches his bride away to the Father's house before the Tribulation judgments are poured out on Earth.
• The Wedding Feast: The shutting of the door represents the closing of the dispensation of grace, after which the Church is safely inside celebrating the Marriage Supper of the Lamb while the Earth undergoes the Tribulation.

2. The Identity of the Virgins (The Church vs. Israel)

To support a pretrib view, commentators argue that the virgins represent the professing Church, not Israel. They separate the virgins into two categories:
• The Wise Virgins (True Believers): They possess the "oil," which is the universal biblical symbol for the Holy Spirit. Because they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, they are genuinely saved, alert, and instantly ready to be raptured.
• The Foolish Virgins (Mere Professors): They have the outward appearance of religion (the lamps) but lack the indwelling Holy Spirit (no oil). They represent "churchgoers" who are left behind when the rapture occurs because they were never truly born again.

3. The "Midnight Shout" and the Imminency of the Rapture

Pretribbers point to the "midnight cry" ("Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him") as a parallel to the Rapture mechanics described by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, which mentions a "shout" and the "voice of an archangel".
Because the virgins were asleep when the shout happened, pretribbers argue this highlights the doctrine of imminency—the idea that the Rapture can happen at any absolute moment without warning, catching a sleeping world (and a sluggish professing church) by surprise.

4. The Shutting of the Door

In verse 10, the door to the wedding feast is firmly shut. Pretribbers argue this mimics the days of Noah (where God shut the door of the ark before judgment fell) and represents the close of the Church Age. Once the true Church is raptured, the opportunity to escape the coming Tribulation via the Rapture is closed, leaving the unprepared behind to face the wrath of the Antichrist.

Note on the Internal Pretrib Debate

It is worth noting that not all pre-tribulationists agree on this interpretation. A large segment of dispensational pretribbers (such as those aligned with John MacArthur or the Dallas Theological Seminary tradition) actually argue that Matthew 24 and 25 apply strictly to Israel and the Jews living during the Tribulation.
In that alternative pretrib interpretation, the wedding feast occurs after the Tribulation at the Second Coming, and the foolish virgins are those who survive the Tribulation but are cast into judgment because they failed to place their faith in Christ before He returned to establish His earthly kingdom.

 

[sondring7]

Correction then--I won't paint it with a broad brush in that case. Some Preteribbers but not all Preteribbers use this as proof text for a Preterib rapture because they have the marriage taking place in heaven but ignoring that during the wedding they are outside knocking.

Thx David.
The reason I'm a pre-trib nutjob is that in the trib believers can lost their salvation where currently that is not the case according to the teachings of Jesus VIA Paul for those who believe & trust in His death, burial, resurrection

If you can show me otherwise (Jesus VIA Paul) you may have a new convert ?

 

[CrowCross]

Lol.
Scripture above just defined the last day.
Jesus comes a second time and raises his own when the heavens are no more.
On that same day we have the eternal judgment of the wicked.

You seem to be having trouble Connecting those scriptural dots

OK, I get it. You can't explain what the last day is.

NEXT

 

[Davidpt]

Thx David.
The reason I'm a pre-trib nutjob is that in the trib believers can lost their salvation where currently that is not the case according to the teachings of Jesus VIA Paul for those who believe & trust in His death, burial, resurrection

If you can show me otherwise (Jesus VIA Paul) you may have a new convert ?

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

And if one doesn't overcome it still means this? Surely not---He that overcometh not, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



Rather than this? Surely--He that overcometh not, the same shall not be clothed in white raiment; and I will blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will not confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I guess only someone who was never saved can take away from the words of the book of this prophecy. Right? Or that no one ever does this to begin with. Therefore, the warning is moot. Surely not, in both cases.

Psalms 69:27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.


Let me see if I have this correct. Only someone in OT times that sin against the Lord can be blotted out of His book. But nobody that is saved during the times of the NT that sins against Him can be blotted out of His book.


BTW, everything I just submitted from Revelation is applicable to both before great tribulation and during it rather than only during great tribulation. A Pretrib rapture doesn't make any of these things go away.

 

[sondring7]

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

And if one doesn't overcome it still means this? Surely not---He that overcometh not, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



Rather than this? Surely--He that overcometh not, the same shall not be clothed in white raiment; and I will blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will not confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I guess only someone who was never saved can take away from the words of the book of this prophecy. Right? Or that no one ever does this to begin with. Therefore, the warning is moot. Surely not, in both cases.

Psalms 69:27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.


Let me see if I have this correct. Only someone in OT times that sin against the Lord can be blotted out of His book. But nobody during the times of the NT that sins against Him can be blotted out of His book.


BTW, everything I just submitted from Revelation is applicable to both before great tribulation and during it rather than only during great tribulation. A Pretrib rapture doesn't make any of these things go away.

Thanks David
Do you believe that those in the trib can lose their salvation ?

 

[jeffweeder]

OK, I get it. You can't explain what the last day is.

NEXT

I thought my answer was quite thorough.
Scripture clearly spells it out.
Who cares what I or anybody else thinks?

I won't hold my breath but how would you explain the last day?

 

[jeffweeder]

Yes it does, both are examples of non-global destructions.

Who survived Noah's flood?

Gen 6
7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy (annihilate) mankind whom I have created from the surface of the earth—not only man, but the animals and the crawling things and the birds of the air—because it [deeply] grieves Me [to see mankind’s sin] and I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor and grace in the eyes of the Lord.

1. Hebrews 11:7
   By faith [with confidence in God and His word] Noah, being warned by God about events not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his family. By this [act of obedience] he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness which comes by faith.
   
   
2. who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It would look more like this instead. Therefore, let's not misrepresent the post trib view simply because you are upset that the Pretrib view doesn't make sense like the Post trib view does. The rapture, then moments later the flood. When the flood is meaning, there is not single saint on the earth at the time. They have just met Jesus and the dead who rise first, up in the sky moments earlier and are continuing to descend with Christ in order to confront the beast and it's armies below. Which then agrees with--at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints(1 Thessalonians 3:13)--and doesn't even need to involve a Pretrib rapture to fulfill.

At least the Post trib uturn makes sense. The Pretrib uturn certainly doesn't. The Pretrib uturn has the dead in Christ already in heaven, then Jesus brings them with Him when He meets those still alive back on the earth in the air, then He takes the dead in Christ back to where they already were just moments ago instead of just simply leaving them there until He gets back.

As to the Post trib uturn, the change from mortal to immortal happens in the air as they rise up to where Jesus is. And once they are changed it then becomes a battle between immortals vs mortals below. And guess who wins?

Oh no.
Sorry you got so upset.
Postribbers have always 100% maintained that the flood represents the trib, and Noah GOES THROUGH THE TRIB.
You own that.
So your deal , consequently, demands a post flood rapture, which is so ludicrous it is no wonder you run from playing out your silly doctrine's destination.
That is WHY your post AVOIDED that very subject.

Go ahead and show us your logic in a Noah rescue and removal post flood.
We are waiting.......

 

[rebuilder 454]

It would look more like this instead. Therefore, let's not misrepresent the post trib view simply because you are upset that the Pretrib view doesn't make sense like the Post trib view does. The rapture, then moments later the flood. When the flood is meaning, there is not single saint on the earth at the time. They have just met Jesus and the dead who rise first, up in the sky moments earlier and are continuing to descend with Christ in order to confront the beast and it's armies below. Which then agrees with--at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints(1 Thessalonians 3:13)--and doesn't even need to involve a Pretrib rapture to fulfill.

At least the Post trib uturn makes sense. The Pretrib uturn certainly doesn't. The Pretrib uturn has the dead in Christ already in heaven, then Jesus brings them with Him when He meets those still alive back on the earth in the air, then He takes the dead in Christ back to where they already were just moments ago instead of just simply leaving them there until He gets back.

As to the Post trib uturn, the change from mortal to immortal happens in the air as they rise up to where Jesus is. And once they are changed it then becomes a battle between immortals vs mortals below. And guess who wins?

Uturn?
Noah is rescued postflood to the clouds, then returns 20 seconds later?

Pure craziness.
SMH.

It is BIZARRE, where false poorly thought out doctrine leads.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Oh wait....Noah is in the clouds for THE ENTIRE FLOOD, then RETURNS TO EARTH POSTFLOOD...AHEM, POSTRIB, back to earth having been in the heavens for the DURATION OF THE TRIB.

But don't let them facts get in your way.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, we dont

Oh yeah.
Postribs have claimed for 80 years that the flood represents the trib.
Then they claim "as Noah went through the flood, we go through the trib."
So you own it 100% .
Your very own belief, when played out, is a ridiculous impossibility.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Pretribbers use this as proof text for a Pretrib rapture.

Except it's pretty silly if the wife and bridegroom are in heaven and that the 5 foolish virgins are still on the earth, that the other virgins would be saying to someone light years away--Lord, Lord, open to us. Keeping in mind that when they are outside knocking on the door, it is when the marriage is underway. And that Pretrib has the marriage taking place in heaven light years away from the earth where the foolish virgins would obviously have no access to from earth. Therefore, when the marriage is taking place, Christ has to obviously be bodily on the earth at the time in order for the 5 foolish virgins to be outside knocking, begging for Him to open up and let them in.

That is all conjecture.
Your mind is opposite scripture.

 

[CrowCross]

I thought my answer was quite thorough.

Nope. What is the last day? Is it that hard of a question to answer?

Scripture clearly spells it out.
Who cares what I or anybody else thinks?

I don't know if you are saying the last days is a time period or a single day....then if it is a time period what that period of time is and if a day...what day are you speaking of.

 

[CrowCross]

According to Google's AI after asking it the following---Do pretribbers ever use the 10 virgins parable to support that the rapture happens pretrib. If yes, what do they typically argue that proves to them this parable proves a Pretrib rapture?

You can also ask...Do posttribbers ever use the 10 virgins parable to support that the rapture happens posttrib. If yes, what do they typically argue that proves to them this parable proves a Posttrib rapture?

 

[jeffweeder]

Nope. What is the last day? Is it that hard of a question to answer?

Referring to scripture is the only way to answer.
I see that you didn't answer the same question. Giddy up Lol

I don't know if you are saying the last days is a time period or a single day....then if it is a time period what that period of time is and if a day...what day are you speaking of.

Oh, now you are saying last days.
Well that is a period of time.


Heb 1
1 God, having spoken to the fathers long ago in [the voices and writings of] the prophets in many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the truth], and in many ways, 2 has in these last days spoken [with finality] to us in [the person of One who is by His character and nature] His Son [namely Jesus], whom He appointed heir and lawful owner of all things, through whom also He created the universe [that is, the universe as a space-time-matter continuum].

The last day is the last of the last days as scripture thoroughly points out.

Your turn to answer the question or run again.

 

[jeffweeder]

Oh yeah.
Postribs have claimed for 80 years that the flood represents the trib.

Not me.
It was clearly God's judgment.

 

[CrowCross]

Referring to scripture is the only way to answer.
I see that you didn't answer the same question. Giddy up Lol

Oh, now you are saying last days.
Well that is a period of time.


Heb 1
1 God, having spoken to the fathers long ago in [the voices and writings of] the prophets in many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the truth], and in many ways, 2 has in these last days spoken [with finality] to us in [the person of One who is by His character and nature] His Son [namely Jesus], whom He appointed heir and lawful owner of all things, through whom also He created the universe [that is, the universe as a space-time-matter continuum].

The last day is the last of the last days as scripture thoroughly points out.

Your turn to answer the question or run again.

You mentioned the last days....is that the same thing as the last day?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No white horse?!?...Now, I'm bummed. It's like finding out about Santa.

Did you just find out about Santa not being real yesterday, too? If so, that must have been a tough day for you. If you were consistent, then you would not only believe that Jesus will be literally riding a white horse when He comes from heaven, but that He also will have a literal sword coming out of His mouth that He uses to literally slay people. So, is that what you believe?