I don't have to know you,i have heard this tripe for years....golly gee maybe we should do this and gee golly maybe we should do that "get em in 2010" "get em in 2012" "throw the bums out" Democrats this and Republicans that,on and on and on.I am not amused by inaction i am amused by people who have been talking for decades and have not accomplished anything but voting in the same people year after year....ask yourself what the reason is for the career politician and the incumbent re election rate ? is it because a bunch of smart cookies followed up on any of their talk ? is it because politically none of them can count past two..D or an R....why was Ron Paul ignored and rejected ?,why is it that smart Americans despite all their whinning send the same people or the same type of people back year after year ? why do idiots say things like he does or does not "look" presidential ? tell me how why campaigns have to be run on "experience" to receive any hope of winning when experience is what put us in the mess we are in........answer any of these questions if you can and tell me that the American people should be taken seriously by anyone.
Conservatives, are you flexible?
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I don't have to know you,i have heard this tripe for years....golly gee maybe we should do this and gee golly maybe we should do that "get em in 2010" "get em in 2012" "throw the bums out" Democrats this and Republicans that,on and on and on.I am not amused by inaction i am amused by people who have been talking for decades and have not accomplished anything but voting in the same people year after year....ask yourself what the reason is for the career politician and the incumbent re election rate ? is it because a bunch of smart cookies followed up on any of their talk ? is it because politically none of them can count past two..D or an R....why was Ron Paul ignored and rejected ?,why is it that smart Americans despite all their whinning send the same people or the same type of people back year after year ? why do idiots say things like he does or does not "look" presidential ? tell me how why campaigns have to be run on "experience" to receive any hope of winning when experience is what put us in the mess we are in........answer any of these questions if you can and tell me that the American people should be taken seriously by anyone.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Actually getting to know people is the path to loving people, which is practicing our sanctification on the narrow road to redemption - or another way to go might be to spend our lives being bitter and dismissing our neighbor.......
The American people politically just need to sit down and shut up,we have the patriot act,we have the defense authorization act,we have trillions in debt and borrow money to give it away,we have executive orders with dictatorship powers,we are overun with illegal aliens, we are controled and monitored at every turn..we are by traditional definition no longer Americans...we are serfs and slaves because Americans by the definition of 200 years ago would have never allowed such things and all this babble about doing this and doing that when absolutely nothing will get done is a joke to the powers that be and they have every right to feel that way.
Aspen,please give the K Mart psych diploma analysis a break...this has nothing to do with being bitter or dismissing anyone...it's called reality...it's called what is happening,not fuzzy fantasy or feel good foolishness.
If anybody can,answer this one question....why should anyone in Washington or any state capitol or any city hall or county government take the American people seriously about anything....anything at all ?????....and please don't answer with some anecdotal meaningless nonsense about people getting stop signs put up somewhere.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Every right in the world, I suppose...have at it! I choose to be happy, at peace, and loving God and neighbor.
You have watched this tripe for years... and what have you ever done about it? Have you ever attempted to change how things are?
I am guessing you probably did at one time or another and it didn't go your way, so you said to hell with it... But I am guessing... and kind of hoping this is the reasonable explanation that a Christian such as yourself has decided that complaining without offering solutions is an acceptable way of doing things...
I won't just sit down and give up. Things do look pretty bleak, but how is just turning our backs on our responsibility going to bring glory to God. Our biggest problems started when people became too preoccupied with their own issues... Once the people became too busy to keep our government in check, that is when the government began to get out of hand...
-- LOL Discredited Media Matters quoting discredited partisan hack Paul Krugman and a chat forum on Military times........and you actually think you said something.
Oh, Aspen. You disappoint me.
The facts stand.
- The top 1% pays 38% of all income taxes.
- The top 10% pay over 70% of all income taxes.
- The bottom 50% - the ones saying the rich should pay more - pay ZERO income taxes.
- The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate in the world
- General Electric earned BILLIONS and paid ZERO in taxes
What have i done ? the same as you perhaps but i realize it is a waste of time,you offer "solutions" that will never be tried so whats the difference...like always people like you take it personally.I speak in the collective because the individual doesn't matter anymore.The American people no longer have the ability collectively to do anything but what their masters tell them to do...ever heard of political "science" ? why do you think they have it down to a science ? is it because Americans are such intelligent,informed and cutting edge thinkers ?
Please don't make it sound so noble...it's called taking up space.....existing with no consequence
There is still a definite lean toward one color or another here...
There are problems with both sides... and instead of defending one side or another, it might be better to focus on where the side you advocate fails, and try to see the possible merits of the ideas of the opposition...
We all know that the tax system is broken... We can agree to that, and the break is not just one party's fault...
We have one group pf people that advocate trickle up, and one group that advocate trickle down... People have argued about it forever... Here is an idea for everyone though... What happens when all of the money has trickled one way? In order for there to be a healthy system, we need real circulation happening... I would prefer something a bit more substantial than a trickle in either directions...
The only way to do this is to come to a middle ground where the people that need help get it, and the people who don't need help aren't punished for not needing help. In a healthy system, all members contribute, in some way. But right now, half the system isn't even given the opportunity to help...
As someone who has had experience in the under 50%, I can say that I never demanded more entitlements... I wasn't in the position to deny help that was available to me though. We did use food stamps, and had some help with our heating and electric bill one year... My husband and I worked hard to bring ourselves out of that percentage... but right now, being about $1500 into the tax payer's bracket at the end of the year, well, I can honestly say we were better off by about $8000 at the end of the year when we were getting government help, even though we were earning less money... We didn't have to pay taxes, plus none of the money we earned went towards groceries, and we had 4 months where our utilities were paid... We used the money we saved during that time to help ourselves into a taxpayer's bracket, but we are hardly better off for it right now.
So, as someone who knows the bitter sweet taste of help, I can honestly say that our system does not reward people for working to better themselves. This is where I see a flaw in the ultra liberal hand out ideology...
... A problem we have when we start forcing corporations to foot the tax bill is that they start finding other countries to move to, then we get put in a worse position... We lose jobs, and we lose taxable income...
When we tax the rich, they move their money out of country...
When we tax all things over and over, such as a person's income, plus the things they buy with that income, plus the property they have already payed sales tax on, plus account the money they save, etc... well we end up in brow beating discussions such as this...
When we try to tax people who don't have anything left to tax, well, you might as well try squeezing a walnut and see how much juice you get... and then try saving money when all your government officials are clocking over time trying to make people pay money they don't have.
Instead of pointing out what other people are missing about their own party, why not try figuring out where your own party misses the mark? Maybe then we might start to get somewhere.
Even if no one pays attention to what those of us who have not given up have to say, and what we strive to achieve, then that is as it will be... God will see that we did what we could...
But all changes that have ever been made have started from one idea, that gained support from other people, and eventually was implemented. We will never effect a change if everyone decides a change is not worth the effort.
Tell me... What should we, who want to effect a change for the better spend our time doing... Should we keep arguing whether Catholicism is bad? Or whether homosexuals are going to hell? Or maybe keep debating the plausibility of Trinity doctrine? I enjoy other people's perspectives, but where does the Church's fascination with arguing about these topics glorify God?
If Christians can bring about a change in their nation that is to the benefit of everyone, does this not demonstrate the Love of God better than arguing the finer points of an individual's doctrine?
There are problems with both sides... and instead of defending one side or another, it might be better to focus on where the side you advocate fails, and try to see the possible merits of the ideas of the opposition...
We all know that the tax system is broken... We can agree to that, and the break is not just one party's fault...
We have one group pf people that advocate trickle up, and one group that advocate trickle down... People have argued about it forever... Here is an idea for everyone though... What happens when all of the money has trickled one way? In order for there to be a healthy system, we need real circulation happening... I would prefer something a bit more substantial than a trickle in either directions...
The only way to do this is to come to a middle ground where the people that need help get it, and the people who don't need help aren't punished for not needing help. In a healthy system, all members contribute, in some way. But right now, half the system isn't even given the opportunity to help...
As someone who has had experience in the under 50%, I can say that I never demanded more entitlements... I wasn't in the position to deny help that was available to me though. We did use food stamps, and had some help with our heating and electric bill one year... My husband and I worked hard to bring ourselves out of that percentage... but right now, being about $1500 into the tax payer's bracket at the end of the year, well, I can honestly say we were better off by about $8000 at the end of the year when we were getting government help, even though we were earning less money... We didn't have to pay taxes, plus none of the money we earned went towards groceries, and we had 4 months where our utilities were paid... We used the money we saved during that time to help ourselves into a taxpayer's bracket, but we are hardly better off for it right now.
So, as someone who knows the bitter sweet taste of help, I can honestly say that our system does not reward people for working to better themselves. This is where I see a flaw in the ultra liberal hand out ideology...
... A problem we have when we start forcing corporations to foot the tax bill is that they start finding other countries to move to, then we get put in a worse position... We lose jobs, and we lose taxable income...
When we tax the rich, they move their money out of country...
When we tax all things over and over, such as a person's income, plus the things they buy with that income, plus the property they have already payed sales tax on, plus account the money they save, etc... well we end up in brow beating discussions such as this...
When we try to tax people who don't have anything left to tax, well, you might as well try squeezing a walnut and see how much juice you get... and then try saving money when all your government officials are clocking over time trying to make people pay money they don't have.
Instead of pointing out what other people are missing about their own party, why not try figuring out where your own party misses the mark? Maybe then we might start to get somewhere.
Well, I don't think rolling over and taking it equals Christian attitude... Is it not said that idleness is the Devil's tool? I think we will be held accountable if we stop caring for the things that are considered our responsibility...
Even if no one pays attention to what those of us who have not given up have to say, and what we strive to achieve, then that is as it will be... God will see that we did what we could...
But all changes that have ever been made have started from one idea, that gained support from other people, and eventually was implemented. We will never effect a change if everyone decides a change is not worth the effort.
Tell me... What should we, who want to effect a change for the better spend our time doing... Should we keep arguing whether Catholicism is bad? Or whether homosexuals are going to hell? Or maybe keep debating the plausibility of Trinity doctrine? I enjoy other people's perspectives, but where does the Church's fascination with arguing about these topics glorify God?
If Christians can bring about a change in their nation that is to the benefit of everyone, does this not demonstrate the Love of God better than arguing the finer points of an individual's doctrine?
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, Eltanin.
I agree, and this is why we need the Messiah to return soon! We need a King of kings, or a King over kings, who is wiser than Shlomo (Solomon) to take the bull by the horns and straighten out this mess. WE can only do it collectively if we collectively have the mind of Christ! Unfortunately, those days seem to be dwindling away as more and more people in the US forget God and His Christ, His Messiah.
See, the real problem with homosexuality and abortion and euthanasia etc. and the "if-it-feels-good-do-it" mentality is NOT the individuals who make these choices; it's that believers fear that these choices are going to tick God off! We're barely hanging on by a thread, and they're goading God, DARING Him to do something about it! If we're barely hanging on by a thread, believers see these unbelievers putting a match to the thread!
If they want to drill a hole in their own boat to see if the water will really gush into the boat, that's their business, but when they are drilling these holes into the ship that carries us all, what right do they have of dragging us to the bottom of the sea with them?! Now, they're stepping on the rights of others!
Sorry about all the metaphors, but sometimes that's the easiest way to get the message across.
I agree, and this is why we need the Messiah to return soon! We need a King of kings, or a King over kings, who is wiser than Shlomo (Solomon) to take the bull by the horns and straighten out this mess. WE can only do it collectively if we collectively have the mind of Christ! Unfortunately, those days seem to be dwindling away as more and more people in the US forget God and His Christ, His Messiah.
See, the real problem with homosexuality and abortion and euthanasia etc. and the "if-it-feels-good-do-it" mentality is NOT the individuals who make these choices; it's that believers fear that these choices are going to tick God off! We're barely hanging on by a thread, and they're goading God, DARING Him to do something about it! If we're barely hanging on by a thread, believers see these unbelievers putting a match to the thread!
If they want to drill a hole in their own boat to see if the water will really gush into the boat, that's their business, but when they are drilling these holes into the ship that carries us all, what right do they have of dragging us to the bottom of the sea with them?! Now, they're stepping on the rights of others!
Sorry about all the metaphors, but sometimes that's the easiest way to get the message across.
But that's not what is happening, HS. People who had $0 withheld from their paycheck during the year file tax returns and get thousands from the government in "refunds". They call it a refund even though nothing was paid. It's like calling a dog a cat. It is a welfare system, but they don't call it welfare, they call it "tax refunds". The vast majority of productive people who pay taxes are completely unaware that people get $8000 "refunds" which are nothing more than redistributing to them the money collected from others.
Whether people save on their own, or they save through overpaying their taxes, I'm not concerned. It can be a convenient way to save for undisciplined people. They can get a lump sum of money to take a vacation or buy some furniture, what ever. But getting other people's money through the tax system skews everything.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I see, so loving others, the sum of the Law is taking up space? Discredit Christ often?
No,discrediting you,you are not Christ...you are a socialist liberal "christian"....in that order.
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