Conversion after death

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,554
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To me it is elementary if you take these verses at face value...IMO

(1Ti 2:4-6) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

(2Pe 3:9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

(2Co 5:14-15) For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

(1Co 15:22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Seems to me, that we accept this awesome FREE gift from our Creators hand, giving us the ability to "choose this day whom you will serve". Why do men have to complicate the simple?

The complication is thrust forward by lack of comprehension, philosophies and false teachings.

Yes. A Gift of Salvation, provided ONCE and for "ALL". It is provided FOR All...
TO RECEIVE!

"IF" a man elects/chooses To not RECEIVE/ CLAIM His Gift....
That man Loses "His Gift"!

Yet some (professed Christians) men are Falsely, teaching;
The Gift of Salvation Can Not be Lost, Until After it is received.
And
Once the Gift of Salvation IS received, they CAN Lose their Salvation.
And
A man Can Not RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation UNTIL the end of the mans Physical Life, and the mans WORKS During his physical lifetime Has proved him Worthy To Then RECEIVE SALVATION.

Jesus' Good News is a man CAN now Once and Forever RECEIVE His Gift of Salvation.

Simple. No confounding psychobabble necessary.

God Bless,
Taken
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,806
25,450
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The complication is thrust forward by lack of comprehension, philosophies and false teachings.

Yes. A Gift of Salvation, provided ONCE and for "ALL". It is provided FOR All...
TO RECEIVE!

"IF" a man elects/chooses To not RECEIVE/ CLAIM His Gift....
That man Loses "His Gift"!

Yet some (professed Christians) men are Falsely, teaching;
The Gift of Salvation Can Not be Lost, Until After it is received.
And
Once the Gift of Salvation IS received, they CAN Lose their Salvation.
And
A man Can Not RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation UNTIL the end of the mans Physical Life, and the mans WORKS During his physical lifetime Has proved him Worthy To Then RECEIVE SALVATION.

Jesus' Good News is a man CAN now Once and Forever RECEIVE His Gift of Salvation.

Simple. No confounding psychobabble necessary.

God Bless,
Taken
"Simple. No confounding psychobabble necessary." 3613_6384b1d111b022306c8d61ab25f18b88_thumb.gif

I'm not quite sure what you mean here @Taken:
"A man Can Not RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation UNTIL the end of the mans Physical Life, and the mans WORKS During his physical lifetime Has proved him Worthy To Then RECEIVE SALVATION." <----I can't agree if you mean our works have anything to do with our salvation? My connection between works and salvation is simply that if one has honestly given their love and devotion totally to the one True God, through Jesus, then, true good works will naturally stem out of this. And by "good works" I do not just mean helping others in any way we can, but being obedient to Him too. If our hearts are truly being changed, these all should follow our conversion, naturally and cheerfully.
As far as the OSAS thing...I have pulled my self away fro that discussion for now, needs much prayer on my end as my POV has changed or, has not been settled altogether, lol.
In Him,
-nancy
PS-I always thought the "Once for all" was speaking about all SIN. The last sacrifice, Jesus the perfect, no need for another sacrifice as it worked the first time...and He isn't gonna do it again cause, It Is Finished! ✝
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Ac28

Active Member
May 18, 2016
425
119
43
Arkansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The last statement you made is true. All who have no calling in Christ will go to the GWT judgment. But your premise is that there is no one written in the book of life on that day. Those whose names are written in the book of life on that day are the saved of the nations.

Did Jesus only die for the called in Christ....or the whole world?
I think you misunderstood what I said. Of course, some without a calling will be written in the book of life and some will not be. Whatever, Buddha will have to be judged. In Rev 20:12-13, it seems as though none of these being judged are alive. It only speaks of the "dead". About 1/4 or 1/5 of the many Bibles on Bible Gateway translate vs 15 as, "If any are not found in the book of life....." The majority of these Bibles are of the "modern" variety, such as the ASV, ESV, NASB. So, is it possible that everyone is written in the book of life? I'm certainly not a Universalist, but that is a strange translation, it seems to me. I prefer the KJV and most of the other Bibles, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life......"
 
Last edited:

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,824
19,301
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I think you misunderstood what I said. Of course, some without a calling will be written in the book of life and some will not be. Whatever, Buddha will have to be judged. In Rev 20:12-13, it seems as though none of these being judged are alive. It only speaks of the "dead".


Yes, the dead. I'm glad we see it the same way. :)
 

Harvest 1874

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2018
1,100
573
113
62
Tampa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.

Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??

Jesus said
  • Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.
  • Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
  • Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.
  • Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
  • Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
  • Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of God would be that cruel and unjust? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death. If Buddha can convert after death, what makes you think Ghandi and so many other non-Christians can't?

Sister Faustina Kowalska claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.

I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If Buddha can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??

Buddha went to the same hell most of the world has gone to, that is the “hell” of the bible, in Hebrew “sheol” and in Greek “hades”, both of which carry similar meanings, i.e. the hidden or concealed place, the grave, the pit or tomb. It is men and their church creeds which teach another hell apart from the scriptures, that is one of (literal) fire and brimstone and eternal torment.

This Satanic doctrine, which was borrowed from heathen religions has caused more fear in the hearts of man, than any other of the “doctrines of demons” used by the clergy. It purpose was to keep the people in absolute subjection. And so it has, to those who do not know the true nature and character of their God. As it is written,

Those who guide these people mislead them and those who are guided are led astray”. Isa 9:16

No such place as a hell of eternal torment is mentioned in the scriptures, if it were would not the Apostle Paul have mentioned it, did he not declare unto us that he, “…shunned not to declare the whole counsel of God?Acts 20:27

If there were indeed such a punishment held out for all evil doers and non-believers why would he fail to mention such an important fact?

Why? Because there was no such thing to declare, “The wages of sin is deathplain and simple as he had stated in (Rom 6:23).

Don’t fall for this great blasphemy against God, it is a device of the ignorant who would use fear as an enticement to draw men to God, this however is impossible, no one could possibly love a God (in the true sense of the word) who would torment forever millions of his subjects simply because they had never heard of the one name given under the heavens by which we might be saved.

God is love. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear hath torment.”(1 John 4:8, 18)

Because God is love, he is incapable of torment. To torment anyone is entirely foreign to God's character. It is contrary to his thoughts. He simply wouldn't think of it; it is an abomination to him. Jeremiah confirms this where God denounces those who sacrificed their children by fire to pagan gods:

They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it, neither came it into my mind.”(Jer 19:5)

And they built the high places of Baal ... to cause their sons, and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech, which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination.”(Jer 32:35; Compare with Jer 7:31 and Deut 18:10-12)

It is clear from these statements that God finds this act of burning individuals alive, to be so repulsive that it has never interred into his mind. Thus eternal torment does not comport with God's character of love.

It is blasphemous for men to put this evil and false idea to our God. The very idea of burning someone alive is evil (an impossibility with God), and gives sure evidence of just how depraved those who advocate it can be.

The enlightenment which Buddha sought was not to be found in the world, in the wisdom of men, but true wisdom comes from above, and is found in the Word of God alone. In the next age he will take part in the resurrection by judgement, along with all the rest of mankind, at that time he will be brought to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4-6), the very “enlightenment” for which he sought.
 
Last edited:

Harvest 1874

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2018
1,100
573
113
62
Tampa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That is an assumption with no evidence that it is true. There are no conversions after death.

No evidence you say? I’m not sure what bible you’ve been reading, or from whence you get your understanding, but the scriptures are most adamant that there will be a future probation for the world, a time in which all who have died will be given an opportunity for conversion.

It is a common perception held by most Christians that death ends all probation that all who fell to accept Christ and/or the Gospel before they die are eternally lost.

It is generally believed by those who hold to the Post-Millennialist viewpoint that the church in its present condition is, by a slow ongoing process to eventually convert the world to Christianity, this same belief is also held by many of those who do not believe in the millennial age at all.

This belief is particularly based upon a misunderstanding of Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

Many have erroneously concluded that this statement by our Lord implies that the world must first be converted before his Second Advent, but note closely what our Lord said, he said, “the gospel of the kingdom would be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations” nothing was said about this witnessing being received (accepted) nor about its converting the world, merely that it should be presented. Neither was it implied that it would be preached to every individual at this time, no, but rather to every nation (peoples), in fact by the year 1861 the Bible, which is the Gospel message, had been translated into every national tongue of the world; and thus every nation, representatively, has been made acquainted with the letter of God's message at least.

Not all have heard, and even of those who have, few there are who have responded, why is this?

First of all because now is not the time for the worlds conversion, this is the dispensation (or age, i.e. the gospel age) of election and not of universal conversion. At present the intent of the gospel message is to find that special class (a “particular people”) whom the Lord is seeking, an elect few from amongst all the various nations, peoples, kindred’s and tongues. The second reason why few have responded, and in fact the very reason why many have not even heard yet, is because, “the god (Satan) of this world (age or dispensation) has blinded the minds of them which believe not, least the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, should shine unto them.” (2 Cor 4:4)

At present the gospel message is only accepted by those possessing an ear to hear, an understanding and appreciative heart, and the willing mind to be the footstep followers of Jesus, and thus to gain the great prize of joint-heirship with Him in His Kingdom. To these the light of Truth comes now. To others, the non-elect, it will come by and by (in the next age), when, according to Divine promises, "All the blind eyes shall be opened, and all the deaf ears shall be unstopped." (Isa 35:5) Then, at that time Satan, the god of this, “present evil world” (Gal 1:4) “shall be bound for a thousand years… so that he should deceive (blind) the nations (people) no more till the thousand years were finished…” (Rev 20:2, 3)

For the earth shall be full of the knowledge (the truth) of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.” (Isa 11:9) “And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” (Jer 31:34)

If indeed it was God’s intention to convert the world during the gospel age He has obviously failed. For after 2,000 years, less than one third of the world's population even professes to be Christian.

The fact is as we had stated, Jesus predicted only that the gospel would be a witness to the world, during the gospel age, not that all would be converted during this time, nor even before the end of the Age.

Mark 4:11 and 12 specifically states that God is not trying to convert the world at present. Jesus said to his disciples,

"Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without all these things are done in parables. That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

Ponder well this scripture.

If Jesus died for ALL, why has God arranged that many would not be able to understand the Bible and, therefore, not be converted and have their sins forgiven?

The Bible is not written like a textbook system of logic. God purposely had the Bible written in parables and symbols, so that many would not be converted and have their sins forgiven. This is why there are so many different Christian denominations with so many different interpretations of the Bible. If man's eternal destiny were dependent upon understanding the Bible presently, we would have assumed that our God of love (1 John 4:8) would have surely made the Bible plain and simple for all to understand, that all might have an equal opportunity to believe and be saved. The fact is that God is not attempting any conversion of the world at this time, but is simply seeking, (calling) a "little flock" at this time, his elect, zealous of good works. Titus 2:14

Acts 15:14-17 reveals that "God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for His name [not to convert ALL of them, but merely to select a few]. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

After this (that is after the gathering of the elect Church is accomplished during the Gospel age) I will return [at the Second Advent] and build again the tabernacle of David which has fallen down [set up the kingdom of God, the earthly phase] so that (or “in order that”) the rest of mankind (the residue or remainder, the non-elect) may seek after the Lord even ALL the Gentiles…”

God's work since the death of Jesus has not been to convert all humankind, but merely to take out or to call out a "people for his name." In the Kingdom, (i.e. the next age, the millennial age) all the REMAINDER of men, who are not of these called out ones, will have their opportunity to seek the Lord.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time(s) the Greek here is plural (“seasons”).” 1 Tim 2:4-6
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,792
7,732
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.

Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??

Jesus said
  • Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.
  • Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
  • Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.
  • Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
  • Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
  • Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of God would be that cruel and unjust? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death. If Buddha can convert after death, what makes you think Ghandi and so many other non-Christians can't?

Sister Faustina Kowalska claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.

I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If Buddha can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??
All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers - Jesus
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,554
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Simple. No confounding psychobabble necessary." View attachment 3879

I'm not quite sure what you mean here @Taken:
"A man Can Not RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation UNTIL the end of the mans Physical Life, and the mans WORKS During his physical lifetime Has proved him Worthy To Then RECEIVE SALVATION." <----I can't agree if you mean our works have anything to do with our salvation?


Friend, please read my prefacing statement...of False things men believe and teach.
I was not declaring "my" beliefs in those statements.


My connection between works and salvation is simply that if one has honestly given their love and devotion totally to the one True God, through Jesus, then, true good works will naturally stem out of this. And by "good works" I do not just mean helping others in any way we can, but being obedient to Him too. If our hearts are truly being changed, these all should follow our conversion, naturally and cheerfully.

Please re read the post.

As far as the OSAS thing...I have pulled my self away fro that discussion for now, needs much prayer on my end as my POV has changed or, has not been settled altogether, lol.
In Him,
-nancy

I understand as you have explained for yourself regarding sin.


PS-I always thought the "Once for all" was speaking about all SIN. The last sacrifice, Jesus the perfect, no need for another sacrifice as it worked the first time...and He isn't gonna do it again cause, It Is Finished! ✝

For my understanding Regarding Sin...
1) pertaining to Jews (who elect) to remain under the Law...
Sin Is:
A) violation of the Law
B) rejection of God

2) pertaining to Gentile's
Sin Is:
A) rejection of Christ's Salvation
B) rejection of God

In short Sin encompasses different things dependent upon IF one is a Jew, still under the Law, or a Gentile Never subject to the Law.

If one Is a Jew, still under the Law, their Law provides that men can Sin against men.

I was never a Jew. My SIN was never Against men. My SIN was expressly Against God, of Disbelief In God. Which IS the Effect and result Affecting All men born of a mans seed.

Jesus offered a Reprieve for the Natural Born condition of all men being OF a mans seed, ie. (Born in Sin)... I heard, learned, believed, trusted, accepted.... His forgiveness, once, and His ONCE having Forgave MY having disbelieved...
AND His internal Power to KEEP me forever in belief and Faithfulness to Him Forever...
WHICH Is (in part) part of the gifts a person receives WHEN they call on Christ the Lord to heartfully confess their belief in Him and acceptance of His Gift of Salvation.

Thereafter... works That saved Person does, that glorifies God, ARE rewarded.....and works That Person does, that do Not Glorify God, are burned.

Works are not the avenue that fosters a man to Receive Salvation....<_---- That hinges on heartfelt Belief and submission To Christ.

Works that a saved man does to glorify God...
Exalts God.

Works that a saved man does that does not glorify God...
Grieves the Holy Spirit.

Point....ONCE the man IS saved..He is Forever Forgiven and Saved and can no longer Sin (disbelieve) Against God.

Saved man...Trespass Against men? Yes!
And Scripture has a remedy, to resolve Trespasses between men.
Also...remedies (of forgivenesses) for Trespasses between men, resolved OR Not, does not mean, consequences for the Trespass is releived.

God Bless,
Taken
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,554
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is a common perception held by most Christians that death ends all probation that all who fell to accept Christ and/or the Gospel before they die are eternally lost.

Agree.
Hearing, is one thing, Given of God.
Accepting, is another thing, Effected by Individuals.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

Yes. Disciples of Jesus carry on, ministeries, and according to Rev 14:6 an Angel will be the one Preaching to all the World before the end.

Many have erroneously concluded that this statement by our Lord implies that the world must first be converted before his Second Advent, but note closely what our Lord said, he said, “the gospel of the kingdom would be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations” nothing was said about this witnessing being received (accepted) nor about its converting the world, merely that it should be presented. Neither was it implied that it would be preached to every individual at this time, no, but rather to every nation (peoples), in fact by the year 1861 the Bible, which is the Gospel message, had been translated into every national tongue of the world; and thus every nation, representatively, has been made acquainted with the letter of God's message at least.

Agree.
Hearing is not Converted.

If Jesus died for
ALL, why has God arranged that many would not be able to understand the Bible and, therefore, not be converted and have their sins forgiven?


Freewill of man.
God Is Just. He Is Power. He Will give to every man what the man chooses.
Choose to Believe and Accept Him...
... He will Effect that that Be accomplished.
Choose to Reject Him....
... He will Effect that that Be accomplished.


God Bless,
Taken
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Ac28

Active Member
May 18, 2016
425
119
43
Arkansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, the dead. I'm glad we see it the same way. :)
What do you do with this verse? Have the ungodly all perished before the WTJ?
Ps 1:5
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
 

Ac28

Active Member
May 18, 2016
425
119
43
Arkansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers - Jesus
That is true, but it seems that, to include Buddha in that verse, is out of context. Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep pf the House of Israel, Mt 15:24. Nearly everything He ever said was directed ONLY to Israel. The context of the passage you quoted is about Israel, the sheep, Mt 10:1-18. It seems the context shows the Pharisees to be the thieves and robbers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,824
19,301
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
What do you do with this verse? Have the ungodly all perished before the WTJ?
Ps 1:5
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.


That's the 1st resurrection...the Bema seat judgment.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,792
7,732
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
That is true, but it seems that, to include Buddha in that verse, is out of context. Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep pf the House of Israel, Mt 15:24. Nearly everything He ever said was directed ONLY to Israel. The context of the passage you quoted is about Israel, the sheep, Mt 10:1-18. It seems the context shows the Pharisees to be the thieves and robbers.
ALL who ever came before me were thieves and robbers - Jesus
 

faithfulness

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2018
271
539
93
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
fwiw Repeat of a post that is meaningful to me:

We have to ask ourselves...what is God looking for? Some will say that good character is meaningless...since God is a religious God and wants us to get His name right or He will throw us in the fires of hell. ??

Jesus called sinners to repentance, not they who were doing well already. Jesus gets the lost sheep first.

God is indeed looking for good character. In fact the word faith means "faithfulness" as well as what we understand to be faith (or don't quite understand yet).

So then the righteous live in their faithfulness.
Or...
The righteous (in God) live by HIS faith. (The faith of Jesus)

But either way we need to be faithful. Notice this...

It isn't enough to be just called and chosen...but ALSO to be faithful.

Rev. 17:14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because
He is Lord of lords and King of kings,
And those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."

Episkopos; Conversion after death 8.31.18

“We should prize humility, faithfulness and good character above all things. We should embrace obscurity so that God might get the glory.”
Thank You Lord
 
  • Like
Reactions: Episkopos

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,806
25,450
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Friend, please read my prefacing statement...of False things men believe and teach.
I was not declaring "my" beliefs in those statements.




Please re read the post.



I understand as you have explained for yourself regarding sin.




For my understanding Regarding Sin...
1) pertaining to Jews (who elect) to remain under the Law...
Sin Is:
A) violation of the Law
B) rejection of God

2) pertaining to Gentile's
Sin Is:
A) rejection of Christ's Salvation
B) rejection of God

In short Sin encompasses different things dependent upon IF one is a Jew, still under the Law, or a Gentile Never subject to the Law.

If one Is a Jew, still under the Law, their Law provides that men can Sin against men.

I was never a Jew. My SIN was never Against men. My SIN was expressly Against God, of Disbelief In God. Which IS the Effect and result Affecting All men born of a mans seed.

Jesus offered a Reprieve for the Natural Born condition of all men being OF a mans seed, ie. (Born in Sin)... I heard, learned, believed, trusted, accepted.... His forgiveness, once, and His ONCE having Forgave MY having disbelieved...
AND His internal Power to KEEP me forever in belief and Faithfulness to Him Forever...
WHICH Is (in part) part of the gifts a person receives WHEN they call on Christ the Lord to heartfully confess their belief in Him and acceptance of His Gift of Salvation.

Thereafter... works That saved Person does, that glorifies God, ARE rewarded.....and works That Person does, that do Not Glorify God, are burned.

Works are not the avenue that fosters a man to Receive Salvation....<_---- That hinges on heartfelt Belief and submission To Christ.

Works that a saved man does to glorify God...
Exalts God.

Works that a saved man does that does not glorify God...
Grieves the Holy Spirit.

Point....ONCE the man IS saved..He is Forever Forgiven and Saved and can no longer Sin (disbelieve) Against God.

Saved man...Trespass Against men? Yes!
And Scripture has a remedy, to resolve Trespasses between men.
Also...remedies (of forgivenesses) for Trespasses between men, resolved OR Not, does not mean, consequences for the Trespass is releived.

God Bless,
Taken
I'm sorry it has taken me this long to reply-I re-read your post and, I can be quick to jump to a conclusion, lol. And, slow to understand some things. I can also be a lazy reader if tired and, should not respond unless I am awake and clearheaded. Sorry @Taken ...I totally agree with your post, lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,554
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm sorry it has taken me this long to reply-I re-read your post and, I can be quick to jump to a conclusion, lol. And, slow to understand some things. I can also be a lazy reader if tired and, should not respond unless I am awake and clearheaded. Sorry @Taken ...I totally agree with your post, lol.

No issue. :)

God Bless,
Taken
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy