Correction

[aspen]

Who are you O man to question the creator?

We do not know who the elect are. Therefore, we witness to all.

1. I am questioning Calvin, not God.
2. That sounds like a stock answer, provided without real thought - it reminds me of a Mormon explanation of three heavens, when you point out that 1 heaven is not only Biblical, it is more likely to keep families together than three Heavens - their answer? “Well, we will be able to visit”

Really?

 

[reformed1689]

1. I am questioning Calvin, not God.

You might want to read Romans 9 then. Because you are questioning God.

2. That sounds like a stock answer, provided without real thought - it reminds me of a Mormon explanation of three heavens, when you point out that 1 heaven is not only Biblical, it is more likely to keep families together than three Heavens - their answer? “Well, we will be able to visit”

Really?

It is a stock answer, but it is also a biblical one. We are told to witness to all so that is what we do. It is not our job or position to question why God tells us to do something, we just do it because He is God.

 

[Truther]

We have discussed better ways to confront people and offer correction in a manner in which a person can actually listen......

I am sitting in a coffee place right now and a father is confronting his daughter about her behavior. He is basically trying to warn her that her behavior is ungodly and will lead to ruin - she is possibly drunk and pretty much rolling her eyes, which is pissing him off. He is invoking God, throwing around scripture, and demonizing every bad decision and danger, real and imagined.

He is sincere and who knows, she might be listening - she isn’t leaving. I can hear the fear in his voice. And the fact that I can hear it is the problem......l

It is not the content of his message or his tone or anything he is doing that is turning her away....it is the public nature of the sermon.

It reminds me that first, parenting is hard, and that confronting anyone is a delicate process, which can go wrong quickly. Embarrassing a person you are confronting is dooming all efforts.

I mention this because I see it happening all the time here.

We are wasting our time speaking to drunk folks unless they sober up.

 

[Willie T]

Why? Based on what?

Based on most of the book/s.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

People need to exercise wisdom, and some do not. Also wisdom comes from above. Chances are both father are daughter need Christ before they can deal with this situation.

I pray that they will both find Him if they don’t know Him!

 

[FHII]

Actually MANY are not able to receive the truth. That's why Jesus said "He who has ears to hear..."

And here is where the conversation was hijacked!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Nail on the head Ron...he is a Calvinist...obviously

Ah, this explains a lot to me. I know I am only one person, and that I haven't met every Calvinist on earth but...every single one I HAVE met has been shrill and cold and without love.

In fact, when I first read tulip, it sounded okay to me. I would not have looked more deeply than a surface glance except for the fact that the ones I'd met who believe it are without any warmth and are very judgemental.

 

[FHII]

We have discussed better ways to confront people and offer correction in a manner in which a person can actually listen......

I am sitting in a coffee place right now and a father is confronting his daughter about her behavior. He is basically trying to warn her that her behavior is ungodly and will lead to ruin - she is possibly drunk and pretty much rolling her eyes, which is pissing him off. He is invoking God, throwing around scripture, and demonizing every bad decision and danger, real and imagined.

He is sincere and who knows, she might be listening - she isn’t leaving. I can hear the fear in his voice. And the fact that I can hear it is the problem......l

It is not the content of his message or his tone or anything he is doing that is turning her away....it is the public nature of the sermon.

It reminds me that first, parenting is hard, and that confronting anyone is a delicate process, which can go wrong quickly. Embarrassing a person you are confronting is dooming all efforts.

I mention this because I see it happening all the time here.

There is a difference between a father disciplining a daughter and what's going on here. There may be folks with more experience on this board (and that should be honored) but none of us are pastors over a flock.

Yet I agree with the point you are trying to make. That correction may be necessary (and frankly, much of the time that ISN'T the case on this board, but rather it's just a blow-hard trying to feel and establish spiritual superiority) isn't the issue. It's the delivery.

 

[reformed1689]

Based on most of the book/s.

Yeah that told me absolutely nothing.

 

[Nancy]

Ah, this explains a lot to me. I know I am only one person, and that I haven't met every Calvinist on earth but...every single one I HAVE met has been shrill and cold and without love.

In fact, when I first read tulip, it sounded okay to me. I would not have looked more deeply than a surface glance except for the fact that the ones I'd met who believe it are without any warmth and are very judgemental.

Try attending one of their Church's. You will need a parka, ear muffs, several warm hats and at least 2 pairs of gloves and mucklucks! Been there, done that...NEVER looked back after a couple years of it.

 

[reformed1689]

Try attending one of their Church's. You will need a parka, ear muffs, several warm hats and at least 2 pairs of gloves and mucklucks! Been there, done that...NEVER looked back after a couple years of it.

And of course none of this is true.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Try attending one of their Church's. You will need a parka, ear muffs, several warm hats and at least 2 pairs of gloves and mucklucks! Been there, done that...NEVER looked back after a couple years of it.

Oh...well then, it explains a lot to me about you too, and what you talk about desiring and craving.

 

[Willie T]

Yeah that told me absolutely nothing.

All four books of The Institutes is 1,277 pages long. Go read it for yourself if you need to be told more.

 

[Nancy]

And of course none of this is true.

Sure was for me in the TWO different ones I attended. Did not know what a Calvinist was in the mid 90's, then started to ask around about it. I didn't leave that first one right away, as I had a couple friends who went with me and was so determined to NOT allow others attitudes to push me from the Church, then it got to be where I found no warmth there. The second one had the same exact feel so, I decided that I was not going to let the shunning get to me but, couldn't take it anymore after 3 years there. The pastor there did not DIRECTLY speak of it but he sure did by omission. I knew much more about Calvinism by the time I started at the second Church but, when I made an appointment with the Pastor there, just to introduce myself. He told me that he himself was a 5 pointer! And...still I stayed until I realized there was no spirit of love or fellowship there and found myself just wanting to cry most Sundays after leaving. So as not to rock their boat (as, I know many there did not even know their new pastor was a reformed Baptist) I did not mention the beliefs of their pastor. Oh I prayed so hard to be led where I would be fed and could be involved and, lo and behold, my old Church built a second campus not even 10 minutes from me...I could not wait until I could go and there was a HUGE difference immediately as I walked through the doors and am still attending, in a small group which I love! You see, at least they could agree that our Great God loved EVERYONE!

 

[reformed1689]

Sure was for me in the TWO different ones I attended. Did not know what a Calvinist was in the mid 90's, then started to ask around about it. I didn't leave that first one right away, as I had a couple friends who went with me and was so determined to NOT allow others attitudes to push me from the Church, then it got to be where I found no warmth there. The second one had the same exact feel so, I decided that I was not going to let the shunning get to me but, couldn't take it anymore after 3 years there. The pastor there did not DIRECTLY speak of it but he sure did by omission. I knew much more about Calvinism by the time I started at the second Church but, when I made an appointment with the Pastor there, just to introduce myself. He told me that he himself was a 5 pointer! And...still I stayed until I realized there was no spirit of love or fellowship there and found myself just wanting to cry most Sundays after leaving. So as not to rock their boat (as, I know many there did not even know their new pastor was a reformed Baptist) I did not mention the beliefs of their pastor. Oh I prayed so hard to be led where I would be fed and could be involved and, lo and behold, my old Church built a second campus not even 10 minutes from me...I could not wait until I could go and there was a HUGE difference immediately as I walked through the doors and am still attending, in a small group which I love! You see, at least they could agree that our Great God loved EVERYONE!

What were you doing that made them shun you? No Calvinist shuns for no reason.

 

[reformed1689]

All four books of The Institutes is 1,277 pages long. Go read it for yourself if you need to be told more.

I've read them. But you said he was a sick individual. What makes him a sick individual? Are you saying there is NO truth in the Institutes?

 

[Nancy]

What were you doing that made them shun you? No Calvinist shuns for no reason.

Unbelievable!

 

[amadeus]

Actually MANY are not able to receive the truth. That's why Jesus said "He who has ears to hear..."

Where do you believe a person is able to obtain those "ears to hear"? Do you have scripture for it?

 

[Willie T]

I've read them. But you said he was a sick individual. What makes him a sick individual? Are you saying there is NO truth in the Institutes?

There's usually SOME truth in part of the things ANYONE says. But, the truly mental disturbances of John Calvin shout out from almost every section of every chapter of each of the four books.

 

[amadeus]

Yes some are created to hear, others are not and will never hear. I don't understand the second part of your question.

If what you say is the case, is there no possibility for such a 'deaf' person to obtain hearing?