Could the two witnesses be from the past?

[Marty fox]

A lot of people believe that the two witnesses will be people from the past in the bible like Mosses and Elijah because they appeared at the transfiguration or Enoch and Elijah because they didn’t die.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 we may not all die but they were changed as our bodies will die and be renewed like Moses and Elijah were changed at the transfiguration because like the verse below say we cannot see God and still live in our current bodies.

Exodus 33:20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

I believe that the two witnesses are symbolic for the law and the prophets which all pointed to Jesus. Jesus and Abraham confirms this in the verses below.

Luke 16:27-31
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Moses (who represented the Law) and the prophets all pointed to Jesus just like the two witnesses point to Jesus. In the verses above we see that the law and the prophets is all anyone especially the Jews need and will get to see who Jesus is. Not only does Jesus predict His death and resurrection in these scriptures but He also predicted that the Jewish nation will still reject Him even after His death and resurrection.

These scriptures also have a two fold meaning when Jesus says that they won’t believe even if someone comes back from the dead He is also saying that the two witnesses cannot be anyone from the past coming back to life to preach because people still won’t believe so God won’t send them.

 

[GISMYS_7]

The two witnesses are very real and will preach and teach and would warnings in Jerusalem and be killed and left in the streets for three days and all the world will see them and be happy they are dead but God will raise them back to life!!!PL.

 

[Marty fox]

The two witnesses are very real and will preach and teach and would warnings in Jerusalem and be killed and left in the streets for three days and all the world will see them and be happy they are dead but God will raise them back to life!!!PL.

Here is my study on them

I believe the two witnesses to be symbolic of the prophets and the law which point to Jesus. Why does God call them the two witnesses? Why the term witness? That means that they had to witness something. Is it because they witnesses and pointed to Jesus?

It took two witnesses to witness a testimony and two witnesses to witness a crime. Could the testimony be about who Jesus is and the crime be what Israel was guilty of?

Mosses represents the law and like the witnesses turned water into blood and struck the earth with all types of plagues. Elijah represents the prophets and like the witnesses he could shut the sky up so that it couldn’t rain and had fire devour his enemies. These two are the two olive trees and are also the two golden lamp stands the two anointed ones that stand before the lord. This is referred to in Zechariah chapter 4 and Jesus is also the anointed one.

Could the fire out of there mouths be the word that has power to condemn and convict. They are also dressed in sackcloth which represents repentance. Jews reading this would understand the meanings.

They mirror Jesus’ life as they also have a 3 ½ year ministry and can’t be killed until there time has come. They are killed by the beast (which I believe is a demon behind the power of Rome) and Rome also killed Jesus. They are killed in Jerusalem just like Jesus was. They are also dead for 3 ½ days like Jesus was and they are raised back to life and go up to heaven. Both Jesus and the two witnesses had earthquakes around the time of there death and there was also an earthquake when Jesus rose back to life.

Why is it 7000 people that died in the earthquake? Why the number 7000? Is it because 7 is the number of completeness and perfection to God and 1000 means many. It also says in Revelation 11:13 that people gave glory to God after the earthquake just like some people realized that Jesus was the son of God after the earthquake when Jesus died.

Why is Jerusalem also called Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8. Because Sodom represents the morality of Jerusalem and Egypt represents the oppression of Jerusalem.

These two witnesses torment people with the word as there words torment and convicts people just like Jesus words did. The Pharisees were happy when Jesus died because he exposed them for who they were and they may of even gave gifts to one another when they celebrated His death.

Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus and these two witnesses help to reveal to us who Jesus is.

 

[Randy Kluth]

A lot of people believe that the two witnesses will be people from the past in the bible like Mosses and Elijah because they appeared at the transfiguration or Enoch and Elijah because they didn’t die.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 we may not all die but they were changed as our bodies will die and be renewed like Moses and Elijah were changed at the transfiguration because like the verse below say we cannot see God and still live in our current bodies.

Exodus 33:20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

I believe that the two witnesses are symbolic for the law and the prophets which all pointed to Jesus. Jesus and Abraham confirms this in the verses below.

Luke 16:27-31
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Moses (who represented the Law) and the prophets all pointed to Jesus just like the two witnesses point to Jesus. In the verses above we see that the law and the prophets is all anyone especially the Jews need and will get to see who Jesus is. Not only does Jesus predict His death and resurrection in these scriptures but He also predicted that the Jewish nation will still reject Him even after His death and resurrection.

These scriptures also have a two fold meaning when Jesus says that they won’t believe even if someone comes back from the dead He is also saying that the two witnesses cannot be anyone from the past coming back to life to preach because people still won’t believe so God won’t send them.

It's possible that the 2 Witnesses are symbolic of the 2 Covenants. Others have seen them as symbolic of Israel and the Church. I think they are 2 literal men, but I don't know for sure. I could be wrong.

It's strange that these are mentioned with no attempt at explaining their enigmatic presence. Clearly, the Lord knew we would wonder who these are? Usually, great men have a profound beginning and calling, to set them apart as prophets. But these are predicted in advance, and powers are ascribed to them that we only saw in OT biblical miracles.

So who knows? It's a good question! It's worth considering.

 

[quietthinker]

the two witnesses are in plain sight.....where are you looking?

 

[Oseas]

I stay wonder in to see how GOD works with His Word. He said:
The court which is without the temple, leave out and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (1.260 days). The prophecy is refering to the FIRST half of the last week-the 70th of Daniel 9:v.27. These 7 years are within this currente last decade of the Devil's world, whose world is destined to be DISSOLVED by complete from now on-2 Peter 3.

Yes, the Holy City will be trodden under foot forty and two months (1.260 days) by the Gentile peoples by a concession of the main politic and religious ruler of Israel - the Beast of the earth who has two horns like a lamb, and he speaks as a Dragon-Revelation 13:v.11-18.

GOD - the Word is GOD- will give Power unto the two witnesses, and they shall prophesy during 1,260 days, and these have Power to shut heaven that it rain not in the days of their prophecy (the door will be closed, there will be salvation no more, so to preach the Gospel or to sell oil will be a waiste of time) : and they have Power over waters (over peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues) to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth (Israel that left Jerusalem free to the Gentiles to tread under their foot) with all plagues, as often as they will.

Who are the two witnesses? For those who believe in the Word of GOD, the two witnesses are, as is written, in Revelation 11:v.4, the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth, the person of the Holy Spirit, the Conforter-John 16:v.7-15. The two olive trees produce the oil for the two candlesticks (two Churches), for the righteous Judgment of GOD will be deliver to the saints of the Most High from now on. Aleluia!!!

That said, the message of God's Word for this current time will be of Judgment exclusively and severe punishments against the wicked world with all its works without exception. Even the two Covenants will be DISSOLVED, the Holy Spirit will work no more with them both in this current end of the world in favor of the souls, or rather, for salvation of the souls, quite the contrary. So, as JESUS said by Revelation, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be"-Revelation 22:v.11-12.

 

[quietthinker]

I will ask re the two witnesses.....what is their witness ie, to what do they witness?

 

[Curtis]

It's possible that the 2 Witnesses are symbolic of the 2 Covenants. Others have seen them as symbolic of Israel and the Church. I think they are 2 literal men, but I don't know for sure. I could be wrong.

The most obvious reason the two covenants aren’t the two witnesses is the fact they are killed, lie in the streets for 3.5 days, then are resurrected and are taken up to heaven

 

[Curtis]

I will ask re the two witnesses.....what is their witness ie, to what do they witness?

That Jesus is the real Messiah

 

[Curtis]

A lot of people believe that the two witnesses will be people from the past in the bible like Mosses and Elijah because they appeared at the transfiguration or Enoch and Elijah because they didn’t die.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 we may not all die but they were changed as our bodies will die and be renewed like Moses and Elijah were changed at the transfiguration because like the verse below say we cannot see God and still live in our current bodies.

Exodus 33:20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

I believe that the two witnesses are symbolic for the law and the prophets which all pointed to Jesus. Jesus and Abraham confirms this in the verses below.

Luke 16:27-31
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Moses (who represented the Law) and the prophets all pointed to Jesus just like the two witnesses point to Jesus. In the verses above we see that the law and the prophets is all anyone especially the Jews need and will get to see who Jesus is. Not only does Jesus predict His death and resurrection in these scriptures but He also predicted that the Jewish nation will still reject Him even after His death and resurrection.

These scriptures also have a two fold meaning when Jesus says that they won’t believe even if someone comes back from the dead He is also saying that the two witnesses cannot be anyone from the past coming back to life to preach because people still won’t believe so God won’t send them.

To me it seems obvious that Elijah is one of the two witnesses, since 1 he had to be taken alive to heaven for some special purpose, 2) the two witnesses call fire down from heaven and shut up the rain - two things Elijah is known for, 3) It is specifically prophesied that Elijah will return before the end of the age (Mal 4:5-6)

And just like the magicians in Egypt duplicated the staff of Moses turning into snakes, I believe there will be dueling Elijah’s during the tribulation when the false prophet also calls fire down from heaven - and also claims to be Elijah - thus there will be competing Elijahs during that time.

 

[Ziggy]

Just an observation..
I was reading in Acts about Peter and John when they confronted the Religious Authorities.
They told Peter and John to speak no more in Jesus' name.
And they turned and prayed in one accord, and sent up a pretty powerful prayer.
Blistering even. Calling out Herod and Pilate in full view of the crowd.

That made me think of the two witnesses in Revelation.

Just sharing my thoughts.

I need to find another avatar..

 

[Curtis]

Are the two witnesses from the past?

I am convinced God transcends time, and I believe He took Elijah and Enoch out of their timeline, and dropped them directly into their two-witnesses timeline - they don’t spend 2,000 plus years in heaven in human bodies awaiting 2050 AD, or whenever the great tribulation starts.

The fourth dimension is time, and God created all ten hypothetical dimensions, thus controls time.

 

[Timtofly]

I will ask re the two witnesses.....what is their witness ie, to what do they witness?

John witnessed the whole Day of the Lord. He wrote about it. The book he wrote is Revelation. He even mentioned the two or 4 witnesses.

 

[Ziggy]

I find it interesting that the Lord does things in threes.

First there was Moses and Aaron, then Peter and John...

All I know is that whoever they are, they will be heard.

just my thoughts
hugs

 

[Timtofly]

I find it interesting that the Lord does things in threes.

First there was Moses and Aaron, then Peter and John...

All I know is that whoever they are, they will be heard.

just my thoughts
hugs

Would not the "third" be Joshua and Paul?

 

[Ziggy]

Would not the "third" be Joshua and Paul?

I'm sure will know when it's their time to come on the scene.
Until then, we still have a lot of growing to do.
and time is short..
Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

John witnessed the whole Day of the Lord. He wrote about it. The book he wrote is Revelation. He even mentioned the two or 4 witnesses.

I'll come from a different angle.....what is the prime issue; the issue which Satan (the accuser) charged God?

 

[Timtofly]

I'll come from a different angle.....what is the prime issue; the issue which Satan (the accuser) charged God?

What context? Prime issue is vague.

 

[quietthinker]

What context? Prime issue is vague.

It's context that I'm hoping to clarify, the context being Satan misrepresenting God. It begs the question, if that was the case why din't God get rid of him right at the outset? The answer would be, there would thereafter be doubt in the angels minds whether Lucifer had a valid point.

Evil needed to come to a ripening so that all could see the malevolence of Lucifer....what was concealed was to be uncovered. At Calvary, the two forces met their climax. What God is really like was publicly displayed when he allowed his creatures to kill him. Satan also was unmasked; his objective for all to see. This is the prime issue. The witness is to the character of God.

 

[Timtofly]

It's context that I'm hoping to clarify, the context being Satan misrepresenting God. It begs the question, if that was the case why din't God get rid of him right at the outset? The answer would be, there would thereafter be doubt in the angels minds whether Lucifer had a valid point.

Evil needed to come to a ripening so that all could see the malevolence of Lucifer....what was concealed was to be uncovered. At Calvary, the two forces met their climax. What God is really like was publicly displayed when he allowed his creatures to kill him. Satan also was unmasked; his objective for all to see. This is the prime issue. The witness is to the character of God.

Satan sat and watched humans for 1000 years. He had way to much time to think and do nothing about his thoughts. Yes God created him that way, knowing the full end of what creation would go through.

We cannot sit and think that we know better than God and become morally smug and superior.