Cremation
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Even God said "Let us "reason" together". And you have yet to give me even one single verse speaking against it, or even about it for that matter. God looks at our hearts and knows we have to make these earthly choices based on our financial means. It almost seems as though you are trying to put a yoke on those who have chosen cremation over burial, which, I'm sure is not your intention but...this having to be buried because Jews were buried and Jesus was mausoleumed...sounds pretty law like to me.
101G
Well-Known Member
Cremation <--- OP
Biblical days, it was common practice to purchase land with a cave and bury a dead body there.
Jesus neither bought land or Prepared a buried place for His body.
(But then He was not a human required to return to dust, from whence He did not come).
Buying plots, (200-2,000 average) having a funeral, (4,000-12,000+ average), clothing, flowers, headstones, newspaper announcement, etc., etc....Few hundred to several thousands of dollars.
Not too long ago, family home, wagon trail... Person died, say few words, wrap the body, dig a hole, bury them, plant a plant/ tree, place a stone or wooden cross.
Massacres, wars, mass diseases...large pit common grave.
Yes also, fires, explosions, have killed people and remains were scant.
Drownings, with no body recovery.
I think a decision to cremate or bury a dead body is a personal choice and the individual should make known to another family member, agent, etc. and themselves provide the financial burden to Effect their desire.
I do not believe "the Living" incurring any debt to bury a dead person is wise or Biblical.
And today's plots, funerals, etc. can be a substantial debt to incur.
I'm confidant the Lord is more than capable of resurrecting a Body rotting in a $5,000 casket or burned to ash and scattered.
Glory to God,
Taken
Biblical days, it was common practice to purchase land with a cave and bury a dead body there.
Jesus neither bought land or Prepared a buried place for His body.
(But then He was not a human required to return to dust, from whence He did not come).
Buying plots, (200-2,000 average) having a funeral, (4,000-12,000+ average), clothing, flowers, headstones, newspaper announcement, etc., etc....Few hundred to several thousands of dollars.
Not too long ago, family home, wagon trail... Person died, say few words, wrap the body, dig a hole, bury them, plant a plant/ tree, place a stone or wooden cross.
Massacres, wars, mass diseases...large pit common grave.
Yes also, fires, explosions, have killed people and remains were scant.
Drownings, with no body recovery.
I think a decision to cremate or bury a dead body is a personal choice and the individual should make known to another family member, agent, etc. and themselves provide the financial burden to Effect their desire.
I do not believe "the Living" incurring any debt to bury a dead person is wise or Biblical.
And today's plots, funerals, etc. can be a substantial debt to incur.
I'm confidant the Lord is more than capable of resurrecting a Body rotting in a $5,000 casket or burned to ash and scattered.
Glory to God,
Taken
Cremation. The term refers to the practice of disposing of the deceased body by means of burning…
Among the early Hebrews cremation was the exception. It was regarded a appropriate only for serious offenders, such as Achan (Josh. 7:15, 25; cf. Lev. 20:14; 21:9; Isa. 30:33). Burning of the Bodies of King Saul and his sons by the men of Jabesh-gilead is disputed 1 S. 31:11f.); it is an isolated incident and is omitted by the account given in 1 Ch. 10:11f. Tacitus noted that the Jews bury their dead rather than burn them (Hist. v.5). Some rabbis considered the burning of the corpse consistent only with idolatry (Abodah Zara i.3). Many rabbis concluded that burial is positively commanded in the Pentateuch (cf. Dt. 21:23). The main reason for the Jewish preference for burial appear to be their belief that God intended the soul and body to be compatible and their belief (especially in later Judaism) in the resurrection of the body…
Exposure without burial was regarded as a calamity among the Hebrews (1 Kings 14:11; Jer. 7:32; Ezek. 29:5; Ps. 79:3; 2 Sam, 21:10). The burial of the dead was a duty even given to strangers (Tob. 1: 17-2:8).
The Christians followed the precedent of the Jews with respect to disposal of the dead. The early Christians, following the example of Jesus (e.g., Mt. 9:24; Jn. 11:11), spoke of the deceased as being “asleep” ) cf. 1 Cor. 15:6, 20). Early memorials referred to the deceased as “asleep in Jesus.”… it seemed quite inappropriate to incinerate the body as referred to as being “asleep”. The early Christian expectations of the Lord’s early return and NT examples of the dead being raised (e.g., Acts 9:40) contributed to their reluctance to cremate the deceased, since the Parousia might occur very soon after the burial. …
Although martyrs were sometimes burned with the intent of lessening the Christians’ confidence of resurrection, it did not deprive them of this hope. If possible, they would gather the ashes or bones of the martyrs and bury them… This has been the position of the Church—especially the Greek Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church—throughout the centuries.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, G.A. Turner, Vol. 1, Pages 812-13.
Burial, Christian... Among the ceremonies of the early Christians we observe invariably a remarkable care for the dead…
The Christian Church manifested from the first a decided preference for the custom of burying the dead, though the practice of burning the dead prevailed throughout the Roman empire… In times of persecution they were often compelled to conduct their funeral solemnities in the night, for the sake of security (Euseb. Ch. Hist. vii, 22).
Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, McClintock and Strong, Page 924.
https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/downloads/Cremation_What_Does_God_Think.pdf
Among the early Hebrews cremation was the exception. It was regarded a appropriate only for serious offenders, such as Achan (Josh. 7:15, 25; cf. Lev. 20:14; 21:9; Isa. 30:33). Burning of the Bodies of King Saul and his sons by the men of Jabesh-gilead is disputed 1 S. 31:11f.); it is an isolated incident and is omitted by the account given in 1 Ch. 10:11f. Tacitus noted that the Jews bury their dead rather than burn them (Hist. v.5). Some rabbis considered the burning of the corpse consistent only with idolatry (Abodah Zara i.3). Many rabbis concluded that burial is positively commanded in the Pentateuch (cf. Dt. 21:23). The main reason for the Jewish preference for burial appear to be their belief that God intended the soul and body to be compatible and their belief (especially in later Judaism) in the resurrection of the body…
Exposure without burial was regarded as a calamity among the Hebrews (1 Kings 14:11; Jer. 7:32; Ezek. 29:5; Ps. 79:3; 2 Sam, 21:10). The burial of the dead was a duty even given to strangers (Tob. 1: 17-2:8).
The Christians followed the precedent of the Jews with respect to disposal of the dead. The early Christians, following the example of Jesus (e.g., Mt. 9:24; Jn. 11:11), spoke of the deceased as being “asleep” ) cf. 1 Cor. 15:6, 20). Early memorials referred to the deceased as “asleep in Jesus.”… it seemed quite inappropriate to incinerate the body as referred to as being “asleep”. The early Christian expectations of the Lord’s early return and NT examples of the dead being raised (e.g., Acts 9:40) contributed to their reluctance to cremate the deceased, since the Parousia might occur very soon after the burial. …
Although martyrs were sometimes burned with the intent of lessening the Christians’ confidence of resurrection, it did not deprive them of this hope. If possible, they would gather the ashes or bones of the martyrs and bury them… This has been the position of the Church—especially the Greek Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church—throughout the centuries.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, G.A. Turner, Vol. 1, Pages 812-13.
Burial, Christian... Among the ceremonies of the early Christians we observe invariably a remarkable care for the dead…
The Christian Church manifested from the first a decided preference for the custom of burying the dead, though the practice of burning the dead prevailed throughout the Roman empire… In times of persecution they were often compelled to conduct their funeral solemnities in the night, for the sake of security (Euseb. Ch. Hist. vii, 22).
Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, McClintock and Strong, Page 924.
https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/downloads/Cremation_What_Does_God_Think.pdf
@Rita A perspective from 1 Corinthians 15 is that burial represents a sowing. I know that in some countries - such as Japan - finding land to arrange a burial is extraordinary difficult; although this option does exist still in many countries.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
But the Second Law of Thermodynamics states that everything in the universe is descending from a higher order to a lower order.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
I don't believe cremation is wrong.
When my wife died, I chose to follow the tradition of the Patriarchs, at significant expense. My choice knowingly cost me $21,000. But I have no regrets.
It seems that the tombs of the patriarchs have been important to this day, 3,500 years later.
While my opinion has no theological basis, I believe I did the right thing based upon tradition.
Cremation was (and still is) a pagan practice. Christian burial was always Christian burial since the entombment of Christ. And the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church implies burial. There is no such thing as "ashes to ashes" in Scripture. It has always been "dust to dust" since Adam, and every corpse eventually becomes dust. Baptism speaks of being "buried in the likeness of His death", so if that is not sufficient, then nothing will suffice.
More and more Christians today are adopting and even rejoicing in pagan practices. This is all a part of the Great Apostasy. Even unsaved Jews and Muslims will have nothing to do with cremation. They quickly bury their dead.
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@Nancy
So then let us all replace the precise laws of the OT [613?] with the precise laws of the NT. Is that really what the scripture teaches us? Is that what God teaches us?
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15
When we lived out in the country and our beloved pets died I would take my shovel and dig a hole and bury them right on our own land. If we owned our own land any more, would it be a bad thing be buried there like I buried our pets? There are legal requirements involved to establish your own private cemetery, but if you owned the land it might be an alternative to the high prices charged in most places.
I guess a person is not allowed to die these days without that it costs somebody something out of someone's pocketbook. Cremation and burial at sea may be a good alternative to the private cemetery at home. I remember one brother in thee church many years ago had his wife cremated and kept the urn containing her ashes in his bedroom until he died. I don't know what was done with his remains.
So then let us all replace the precise laws of the OT [613?] with the precise laws of the NT. Is that really what the scripture teaches us? Is that what God teaches us?
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15
When we lived out in the country and our beloved pets died I would take my shovel and dig a hole and bury them right on our own land. If we owned our own land any more, would it be a bad thing be buried there like I buried our pets? There are legal requirements involved to establish your own private cemetery, but if you owned the land it might be an alternative to the high prices charged in most places.
I guess a person is not allowed to die these days without that it costs somebody something out of someone's pocketbook. Cremation and burial at sea may be a good alternative to the private cemetery at home. I remember one brother in thee church many years ago had his wife cremated and kept the urn containing her ashes in his bedroom until he died. I don't know what was done with his remains.
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101G
Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply, The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time, and is constant if and only if all processes are reversible.
from observation the universe is expanding... Jeremiah 10:12 "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion."
PICJAG.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
As usual, I go with the Word, and in no place is cremation declared as wrong.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
I need to do nothing more than to see photos of me over the past 78 years to see the second law in action.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
101G
Well-Known Member
entropy, (to us workth death, natural death, but not in the spirit), is something else... ain't it. but look what God, the Lord Jesus, do for us who love him when he returns, he puts entropy and everyrthing else in it's place.
so yes our old house falls, but not the spirit. our Lord is always correct, John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
PICJAG
Not everything is declared in Scripture, Many things are implied and need to be discerned spiritually. So you want biblical authority, but you do not wish to believe what is implied.
Take this verse as the fundamental teaching:
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen 3:19)
1. Adam was the progenitor of the human race. Which means that what was said to Adam would apply by extension to the human race.
2. Adam was taken out of the ground: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.(Gen 2:7)
3. "Till thou return to the ground" speaks of burial, and the subsequent break down of the human body into into its chemical components -- carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, sulfur, and all the minor minerals. The gases all disappear, and the chemicals and minerals remain as dust.
4. There is no mention of "ashes to ashes" by God. Only "dust to dust". Thus THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE the saints of God were buried or entombed. That is sufficient in and of itself.
5. Christ was entombed and Stephen was buried. In baptism we are "buried in the likeness of His [Christ's] death". All the NT saints were either entombed or buried.
6. And what did the Lord say regarding the resurrection of the saints? Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28,29)
But first note carefully what God says about graves, not crematoria.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, (Ezek 37:12,13)
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.(Mt 27:52,53)
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. (Rev 11:9)
On the other hand, what does God say about the ways of the heathen? And what God said to Israel applies to the Church.
Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.For the customs of the people are vain:... (Jer 10:1-3).
There is no honor anymore
Everything is "for profit". Not even fair profit...some well over a hundred % for "them".I would love to own land, but it is time for me to downgrade as it is, haha. But, good alternatives for some, I'm sure.
"So then let us all replace the precise laws of the OT [613?] with the precise laws of the NT. Is that really what the scripture teaches us? Is that what God teaches us?" <---- We would have to say no, not at all what I read
Yes, I wonder if he had family who took his wives ashes?
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15"
There is no honor anymore
I would love to own land, but it is time for me to downgrade as it is, haha. But, good alternatives for some, I'm sure.
We used to own land, but gave it all up long ago. Now we have our little apartment with contents and our one vehicle. We have decided to go with cremation so that which ever one of us remains will have a little bit more to carry on...
So then let us all replace the precise laws of the OT [613?] with the precise laws of the NT. Is that really what the scripture teaches us? Is that what God teaches us?" <---- We would have to say no, not at all what I read
People have decided on black and white rules. God did not decide that!
When they both lived they for a short time quietly attended church with us. Being older folks and newcomers to the assembly they made no real friends and we were a younger generation. After she was gone he attended alone for a few months and then he was gone too. If they had children I never knew of it. It's been more than 30 years ago now, so I don't even remember their names. They are not on my obituary list. It was probably not too long after that that I backslid for about 10 years and destroyed all of my notes from church. Anything about them would have with what I destroyed.
Oh yeh. I want to be cremated and have a tree planted in my honor.
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