Cults And Their Faults

[Jane_Doe22]

So you are not here to get a body, and there was not some grand plan for man to sin. We were put here to live sin free eternally, that's right, isn't it? And we messed it up--God didn't plan it that way. Because if he did, there is no problem. At least that is what I got from you. Do you believe that Christ and Satan are brothers? Because that would take away the godship of the Son. I think we are on the same page on this.

This is bunch of questions on different topics than the previous. Ok, I'll go through them.

So you are not here to get a body, and there was not some grand plan for man to sin. We were put here to live sin free eternally, that's right, isn't it? And we messed it up--God didn't plan it that way. Because if he did, there is no problem. At least that is what I got from you.

God is all-powerful and all-knowing. There wasn't any point where He said "oops, well Satan really pulled one over on me in the Garden, guess I'll have to come up with a Plan B now". No. He knew everything in advance, nothing beats Him.

Do you believe that Christ and Satan are brothers?

Christ alone is the Son of God. He alone is perfect, and perfect in every way.

The Father is the Father of everyone (obviously), which technically makes everyone spiritual siblings, but that doesn't remotely mean everyone is the same. Scripture is full of examples of siblings going in opposite directions. The most extreme different example are Christ the on perfect Son of God whom said "thy will be done", versus the guy who literally led a rebellion against God & was cast out.

Because that would take away the godship of the Son.

The fact there is only one Father doesn't detract from the glory of the Son.

 

[Cassandra]

This is bunch of questions on different topics than the previous. Ok, I'll go through them.

God is all-powerful and all-knowing. There wasn't any point where He said "oops, well Satan really pulled one over on me in the Garden, guess I'll have to come up with a Plan B now". No. He knew everything in advance, nothing beats Him.

Christ alone is the Son of God. He alone is perfect, and perfect in every way.

The Father is the Father of everyone (obviously), which technically makes everyone spiritual siblings, but that doesn't remotely mean everyone is the same. Scripture is full of examples of siblings going in opposite directions. The most extreme different example are Christ the on perfect Son of God whom said "thy will be done", versus the guy who literally led a rebellion against God & was cast out.


The fact there is only one Father doesn't detract from the glory of the Son

What I meant was I was taught as a youth that Satan and Jesus were brothers--on the same level-- Christianity believes that Jesus is higher than Satan . I was also taught that Satan wanted to rule the world by force, and Jesus said no, but by choice. I was also taught that man was supposed to sin , and that we were here on earth to get a body. And that God has a wife, and we are spirit babies. There is much more around the phrase "white and delightsome" but I don't need to go there.
I think you've told me all of these are untrue in the current church. I wanted whoever reads this thread that this is the case, and they won't need to go and look at a website with old teachings.

 

[amigo de christo]

Actual "Mormon" here: Jesus Christ the divine Son of God. Deity. Straight up. He is my Lord, Savior, and King. He words never cease and the heavens are still open. I also do not deny that many other folks (Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, etc) are also Christian and have great relationship with Christ-- such is to be celebrated! I love visiting other churches and listening to believers there tell me about their love of Christ.

the all inclusive dont deny much at all . So long as they are not persecuted for their own faults .
Many love this religoin that wont expose faults . You might want to investigate real closely your own church
and its own beginnings . You do realize that they also taught YE MUST BELIEVE ON JOSPEPH smith .
IF NOT it dont matter if ye do claim CHRIST , ye aint saved . That came from the MORMON RELIGOIN .
Not to mention the fact they follow another jesus whose brother was who again .
Not to mention they taught that even GOD himself began as a human and had to ascend to GOD HOOD .
Not to mention they taught GOD is not the only god either . You better examine that hole of darkness .
Even now its made its bed again with THE RCC . even the false prophet jospeph smith would have rolled over in his grave on that one .
YOU all are buying the LIE NOW . the lie that has come along to gather all religions in the name of a false love
in the name of a false unity right under the very dragon . As for me , Yeah i am gonna continue to expose errors
and follow the actual BIBLICAL pattern left to us OF CHRIST and the true apostels .

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What I meant was I was taught as a youth that Satan and Jesus were brothers--on the same level-- Christianity believes that Jesus is higher than Satan . I was also taught that Satan wanted to rule the world by force, and Jesus said no, but by choice. I was also taught that man was supposed to sin , and that we were here on earth to get a body. And that God has a wife, and we are spirit babies. There is much more around the phrase "white and delightsome" but I don't need to go there.
I think you've told me all of these are untrue in the current church. I wanted whoever reads this thread that this is the case, and they won't need to go and look at a website with old teachings.

With all possible respect @Cassandra , your posts are much more resembles of Protestant saying of "what Mormons believe", versus actual LDS Christian beliefs. I don't care if someone disagrees with LDS Christian beliefs- that's totally your right. But it helps to disagree with actual beliefs versus straw men. Yes, I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that I am a sinner, in desperate need of His salvation. He is my Savior- salvation come through faith in Him. I am a saved Christian, even according to Protestant beliefs. As are you and pretty much everyone else here. It's wrong to add more gate keeping of "well, you can only really a Christian if you attend church at xyz, or you got to believe this extra thing too, etc".

 

[Jane_Doe22]

the all inclusive dont deny much at all . So long as they are not persecuted for their own faults .
Many love this religoin that wont expose faults . You might want to investigate real closely your own church
and its own beginnings . You do realize that they also taught YE MUST BELIEVE ON JOSPEPH smith .
IF NOT it dont matter if ye do claim CHRIST , ye aint saved . That came from the MORMON RELIGOIN .
Not to mention the fact they follow another jesus whose brother was who again .
Not to mention they taught that even GOD himself began as a human and had to ascend to GOD HOOD .
Not to mention they taught GOD is not the only god either . You better examine that hole of darkness .
Even now its made its bed again with THE RCC . even the false prophet jospeph smith would have rolled over in his grave on that one .
YOU all are buying the LIE NOW . the lie that has come along to gather all religions in the name of a false love
in the name of a false unity right under the very dragon . As for me , Yeah i am gonna continue to expose errors
and follow the actual BIBLICAL pattern left to us OF CHRIST and the true apostels .

Amigo, if you want to have a rational conversation and be accurate as to what I believe, then I totally welcome that conversation. If you’d rather just state you mind and end it, ok.

 

[Cassandra]

With all possible respect @Cassandra , your posts are much more resembles of Protestant saying of "what Mormons believe", versus actual LDS Christian beliefs. I don't care if someone disagrees with LDS Christian beliefs- that's totally your right. But it helps to disagree with actual beliefs versus straw men. Yes, I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that I am a sinner, in desperate need of His salvation. He is my Savior- salvation come through faith in Him. I am a saved Christian, even according to Protestant beliefs. As are you and pretty much everyone else here. It's wrong to add more gate keeping of "well, you can only really a Christian if you attend church at xyz, or you got to believe this extra thing too, etc".

If you recall, I was raised in the LDS church! I know we've talked about this before, and were in agreement in a lot of things. My name s still on the church books!
I don't believe that the LDS church is the true church, but there are things there you don't believe and I was asking for you to say those so they would understand.
And I never said squat about you can only be a Christian is you attend church at xyz to you--don't accuse me of gatekeeping or that other stuff. I did not do that to you.
God's people are in every church.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If you recall, I was raised in the LDS church! I know we've talked about this before, and were in agreement in a lot of things. My name s still on the church books!
I don't believe that the LDS church is the true church, but there are things there you don't believe and I was asking for you to say those so they would understand.
And I never said squat about you can only be a Christian is you attend church at xyz to you--don't accuse me of gatekeeping or that other stuff. I did not do that to you.
God's people are in every church.

My vent about gatekeeping wasn’t directed at you- I apologize that that got miscommunicated. Not my attention at all!

My comment was more directed at people whom throw the label “cult” and denying other folks relationship with Christ. That is gatekeeping.

 

[Raccoon1010]

When I honestly think about cults I think of a leader that leads the people out of society to hide and wait for the second coming. Keeping them from being in the world, we are to be in the world but not part of it.

Heavens Gate was clearly a cult in the worst sense, and he killed them with poison. Heaven's Gate (religious group) - Wikipedia

 

[Raccoon1010]

Let's be honest, if a cult is a threatening type organization then you need to read the bible. There are a lot of threats in it of hellfire and even death of two people that held money back from the sale of their land to the early church.

 

[Raccoon1010]

And let's not forget about secrets told by Jesus only in parables and only revealed to the 12 apostles plainly.

 

[Raccoon1010]

And speaking of revelation I have recieved one that contradicts the KJV of the bible. "God can do no evil and Satan can do no good". And I believed it enough to switch to the NKJV and it also has been a guide to me to escape the unforgivable sin. We should never say that God did some evil or even would have. But the KJV says he "repented of the evil he thought to do" which is incorrect.

 

[lforrest]

And let's not forget about secrets told by Jesus only in parables and only revealed to the 12 apostles plainly.

Revelation 2:24

Here is a reference to what I read as a sort of implication against deep secrets of Satan being spread in Thyatira.

The parables were knowledge hidden in plain sight. I don't know if cults are capable of that in their scriptures or not.

Judging from the Quran, trying to read deeper than the surface leads to confusion. While reading the scriptures they become more clear, at least when the Holy spirit is with us to guide our thoughts.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Revelation 2:24
The parables were knowledge hidden in plain sight. I don't know if cults are capable of that in their scriptures or not.

Judging from the Quran, trying to read deeper than the surface leads to confusion. While reading the scriptures they become more clear, at least when the Holy spirit is with us to guide our thoughts.

Good point as the job of the Holy Spirit is many things, but one of them is for knowledge and understanding. I still don't understand the parables of Revelation or the Bible unless they are explained to me plainly though. And I remember the disciples of Christ asking him what the meaning of the parable was that he told the people. So I'm not alone.

 

[lforrest]

Good point as the job of the Holy Spirit is many things, but one of them is for knowledge and understanding. I still don't understand the parables of Revelation or the Bible unless they are explained to me plainly though.

Only parables I know are the ones Jesus told in the Gospels, during his life on earth. Prophetic Visions tend to be even more obscure than parables.

Also Note my addition to the post above cause I quoted the verse from revelation then went off on a tangent.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Only parables I know are the ones Jesus told in the Gospels, during his life on earth. Prophetic Visions tend to be even more obscure than parables.

Also Note my addition to the post above cause I quoted the verse from revelation then went off on a tangent.

Yes she was contradicting the bible probably in any version of it:

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

 

[Raccoon1010]

I wonder if you could see some of the interpretations of the bible as a type of wrong doing and sinister, changing the nature of sin into less evil or God into something less good? I've noticed in some of the debates that some people have denounced some of the interpretations because they don't spell out the evil of certain sins.

 

[lforrest]

And speaking of revelation I have recieved one that contradicts the KJV of the bible. "God can do no evil and Satan can do no good". And I believed it enough to switch to the NKJV and it also has been a guide to me to escape the unforgivable sin. We should never say that God did some evil or even would have. But the KJV says he "repented of the evil he thought to do" which is incorrect.

I was unaware of this contraversy over interpretation, is this in regards to when God offered to Moses to destroy Israel and continue from him? But was convinced to destroy only some? Or perhaps when God regretted creating man on the earth.

The way I understand blasphemy of the Holy Spirit it is harder to commit than people may think. And there is no natural inclination towards sinning in this way, like there is to say take the Lord's name in vain with profanity. And as the scriptures says, blasphemy against the Father or Son may be forgiven.

 

[lforrest]

I wonder if you could see some of the interpretations of the bible as a type of wrong doing and sinister, changing the nature of sin into less evil or God into something less good? I've noticed in some of the debates that some people have denounced some of the interpretations because they don't spell out the evil of certain sins.

Most certainly, I believe man corrupts that which passes through his sinfully inclined grey matter. So it is better to give pure unfiltered scripture more often than not, and to make it clear when something is ones own belief.

 

[Raccoon1010]

I was unaware of this contraversy over interpretation, is this in regards to when God offered to Moses to destroy Israel and continue from him? But was convinced to destroy only some? Or perhaps when God regretted creating man on the earth.

The way I understand blasphemy of the Holy Spirit it is harder to commit than people may think. And there is no natural inclination towards sinning in this way, like there is to say take the Lord's name in vain with profanity. And as the scriptures says, blasphemy against the Father or Son may be forgiven.

To address the first: Yes it was when Moses was on the mountain. The KJV says this:

Exodus 32:14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

The unforgivable sin is cited by Jesus when the Pharisees were trying to say he was casting out evil spirits by the power of Beelzibub. So I steer clear of ever entertaining that something evil God caused. It comes up in my thoughts from time to time. Something Satan pushes on people as he is blasphemous. Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 12:24-32 - New King James Version

 

[Windmill Charge]

When you say "Mormons are cultist" and "all cultists are non-christian", you are judging my faith and denying my relationship with Christ. And statements like "Denying the divinity of Christ" is plainly wrong.

I'm going to be very direct here: your website is misrepresenting things to you. Quoting does not equate to being correct- the pinnacle example of this being Satan quoting scripture-- that doesn't make him correct (he's extremely not!). The website misrepresents things, which is something no one needs to do.


I'll take just this first point here as an example: are you aware that the source being cited here is a newspaper? That's literally what the "Times and Seasons" is. It's not remotely scripture. None of the other sources are either, nor actually remotely authoritative.

As to the actual content "God used to be a man on another planet": actually no. That's not LDS Christian doctrine at all. There are a grand total of two speculative original non-scripture quotes the subject of the Father's history, neither of which actually mention other planets and instead are focused on the power of God's atonement to make us clean as Him. The speculative parts aren't actually talked about if you go to LDS Christian church, nor remotely a required belief, and there's a lot of varied interpretations of it. LDS Christians don't believe in automatic infallibility of anyone (save God). God alone is my King.

Well does the Mormon church reject those teachings?
Have they publicly renounced what many of there leaders have taught as being false, or do they still believe them?

You are aware aren't you that the church of latter day saints regards all other churches as teaching falsehood and not truly Christian.

Joseph Smith in his history of the church, page 5-6 in vol 1 says" he asked the personages ( angels ) which of the sects was right. I was answered I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, that there creeds were an abomination. "

Either Mormons is true in which case Christianity is false or if Christianity is true, then mormonism is false.

They cannot both be true.