Dancing With Jesus

[mjrhealth]

I can undertsand why many of you dont understand me, and I can also understand why God is so patient with us, for how stubborn we are. But here is a little thought,
imagine it where you had a book on dancing, and you began to read it, then thought oh how lovely it would be to dance with my wife / husband. But just kept dreaming on and reading this book about dancing. Well that is how it is with christians,, how many stories have you read about the wonderful experiences that people have had with Jesus, walking with Him, talking with Him, some even being taken to heaven, and you wonder why it hasnt happened to you. well its like this, they put the book down, listend to the voice of Jesus, and began to dance with HIm. But no youll come and tell me you need the bible, well you may but God certainly doesnt, Pegg you asked how can one tell if someone is speaking the truth, well that is what the Holy spirit was sent to us for, to guide us and lead us into the truth, and If Jesus is the way the truth and the life, what more do you need or is it that you think Jesus isnt complete. Have you ever got angry at the words someone has wriiten and cant understand why, well thats conviction, its what happens when someone writes the truth and it contradicts the lie you believe to be true but our flesh just sees it as anger, and how dare that person contradict me. Well i guess it doesnt bother me too much, but it does sometimes baffle me. As for reading the bible, like everyone when I gave my life to the Lord, i read it from cover to cover, but i have learnt far more from Jesus and the Holy Spirit then i could ever learn from that book in my whole life.

In His LOve

 

[brionne]

thats a lovely illustration and I agree that we experience Jesus more fully when we 'dance' with him as you call it. I would be more inclined to call it 'applying' what Jesus taught though.

I think what you may not be taking into consideration is that not everyone has the full knowledge that you may have. Some people are only newly learning about God and therefore they have not changed their life enough to permit the holy spirit to work with them.... or some of us who have been learning for a long time still have changes to make in our life in order for the spirit to work in us...i think i would fall into that category Paul said that we need to change our minds over to God in order to be approved and I believe that is an ongoing process until we are perfect. Ephesians 4:23-24 puts it nicely as does Colossians 3:9, 10 for it shows that not only our knowledge, but also our personality must be transformed.

I dont believe my knowledge is complete enough to be able to do away with my bible, i definately dont trust myself enough to feel competant without it and so I will continue to rely on it probably for a very long time to come.

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Pegg, it is not becasue we are youn o in Christ or not, its because we look at ourselves and acoount ourselves as unwrthy and therefore shtting the doors to let Christ work In us, th moment you say, " here i am use me", and stop looking at yourself, ( since its all about Him and what He can do), then you allow Him in, and He can start working His work, and that I have on good authorit. Put it this way, if it was all about what I we can do, He wouldnt be speaking to me. any of us.

In His Love

 

[brionne]

I also just had one other thought on why the bible is very important for us

If I am teaching someone my christian beliefs, I need to be able to show that my beliefs have a basis in the bible. This requires that i provide the scriptures and the only way to do that is if I have a bible with with to show my hearer.

Its very well that I proclaim my beliefs to others, but the teaching belong to God, not me....the only way to show that the teaching belongs to God is to show it straight from the bible itself. The bible has much more authority then I will ever have and this is borne out by the scripture in Hebrews 4:11,12 “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.”

The word of God is a powerful force that should never be underestimated.

 

[mjrhealth]

Actually No Pegg thats all wrong. It is so more simple. We are supposed to go to Christ and let Him do His work in us, then when people see the difference in you they will want to know why. The problem is into days society, chritans dress up nice on sunday, go to church, walk around with bibles in their hands, drive around with Jesus stickers on the car, and preach the bible, but the to the outside world are a weird group of people who proclaim to be Godly but are no different to to them, for like the pharrisees of Christs days, its all out side appearance and they hvae never let Chist in to do His work on the inside. For instance, i used to work at a TV transmitter site, and one evening I walked past the guards post, and the lady security guard, said to me, Hi David could I speak to you for a moment, So i walked in then she suprised me and said," I see you walking around when everyone else is frustrated and uptight when things are going wrong yet you seem unfazed and not bothered, Why is that so?, so I sat down and told Her about Jesus, no i did not preach the bible, Jesus is not a figment of my imagination He is a very real part of my life, whom,without i have no reason to live, and because of the work He was doing in me. i dont have to put up a show, for she saw something different in me, its when you get to that stage that you know Jesus is in your life, but you have to stop thinking like a religiouys zealot and start letting Him have His way. Yet not my will but your wil be done, that is what it is all about, and even today, i have a friend at work whom i have yet to even mention Jesus to, who quiet often says to me. that He knows i have a friend in High places, God, and there have being many other examples. Let Jesus do the work and watch the doors open, Its for all who are willing to eneter in, but the price can be high as any one aho walks with Him can testify.

In His LOve

 

[brionne]

i can see that you are speaking in terms of how our conduct and lifecourse should reflect a christlike personality and when it does people take notice. I completely agree with you on that.

However, how will a person with no knowledge of christ come to know how he lived and loved in order to imiate him?

Sure you could tell them all about it without the help of Gods word, but would your declaration be enough for some people? Would it not be better for them to learn from the source, ie from the bible which was breathed by holy spirit, rather then from a secondary tongue?

You are saying we should let the holy spirit lead us...do you not think that by reading the bible we are in fact having our minds led by holy spirit? And if not, why not?

 

[jiggyfly]

I also just had one other thought on why the bible is very important for us

If I am teaching someone my christian beliefs, I need to be able to show that my beliefs have a basis in the bible. This requires that i provide the scriptures and the only way to do that is if I have a bible with with to show my hearer.

Its very well that I proclaim my beliefs to others, but the teaching belong to God, not me....the only way to show that the teaching belongs to God is to show it straight from the bible itself.

Paul said that there's more to it than that.
I dare not boast of anything else. I have brought the Gentiles to God by my message and by the way I lived before them. I have won them over by the miracles done through me as signs from God--all by the power of God's Spirit. In this way, I have fully presented the Good News of Christ all the way from Jerusalem clear over into Illyricum. Romans 15:18&19

The bible has much more authority then I will ever have and this is borne out by the scripture in Hebrews 4:11,12 “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.”

The word of God is a powerful force that should never be underestimated.

Yes, if you attribute "The word of God to be exclusively the scriptures, but the scriptures themselves do not make such a claim and in fact the scriptures refer in several places that the word of God is Jesus. The letter always leads to death but the Spirit gives Life. History has proven this to be true.

Theres a good book on the subject you may be interested in Pegg, it's "Biblical Dyslexia" by Charles Wilhelm.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

mjrhealth,

Will you marry me?

Miss Hepburn

 

[Miss Hepburn]

mjrhealth,

Will you marry me?

Miss Hepburn

........................................................................................................................
That might be incest, though...obviously we were separated at birth.
........................................................................................................................

 

[truthquest]

I can undertsand why many of you dont understand me, and I can also understand why God is so patient with us, for how stubborn we are. But here is a little thought,
imagine it where you had a book on dancing, and you began to read it, then thought oh how lovely it would be to dance with my wife / husband. But just kept dreaming on and reading this book about dancing. Well that is how it is with christians,, how many stories have you read about the wonderful experiences that people have had with Jesus, walking with Him, talking with Him, some even being taken to heaven, and you wonder why it hasnt happened to you. well its like this, they put the book down, listend to the voice of Jesus, and began to dance with HIm. But no youll come and tell me you need the bible, well you may but God certainly doesnt, Pegg you asked how can one tell if someone is speaking the truth, well that is what the Holy spirit was sent to us for, to guide us and lead us into the truth, and If Jesus is the way the truth and the life, what more do you need or is it that you think Jesus isnt complete. Have you ever got angry at the words someone has wriiten and cant understand why, well thats conviction, its what happens when someone writes the truth and it contradicts the lie you believe to be true but our flesh just sees it as anger, and how dare that person contradict me. Well i guess it doesnt bother me too much, but it does sometimes baffle me. As for reading the bible, like everyone when I gave my life to the Lord, i read it from cover to cover, but i have learnt far more from Jesus and the Holy Spirit then i could ever learn from that book in my whole life.

In His LOve

This is why the bible is so important to us:
2Tim. 3 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, [sup]17[/sup] that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[mjrhealth]

Hu miss hepburn, sorry that position was already taken. Single as I may be I still love Her. And no the bible has its place, but Christ must always come first. MAny claim to understand the bible, just look at all the division on these forums. all mens knowledge and wisdom. You think you know and understand it, have a debate with satan, i can guarantee he will put you under the table, now Christ, He is our Truth, just waiting for people to look up and ask Him to teach them, but their heads are always down, buried in book, reading about Him but never actually going to Him so that He can show Himself to them. How qould it be, if your partner was a famous person and a book was written about them, and so everday you read it, while your partner waits in bed for you to go and love them. How long do you think that relationship will last. Do you want to know Jesus, or like the rest of the world , about Him is enough. If you want to know Jesus go to Jesus, you want to know about Him then read the bible, one wil fill you with truth if you are willing to be emptied first, the other will fill you with knowldedge, which as it says " puffeth up".

In His LOve

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Often, not always, some people will misinterpret or misunderstand or not even really read what another writes.
They can see words pop out of a sentence and take them out of context and jump to a conclusion - of course, I'm not talking about anyone here.

The Bible is a very important. We all here know that. There is no question.

However, the fine point here is that a roadmap is not the destination. You can refer back to it and double check that you are indeed on course, naturally. But it is not the end - the Goal - it points to the Goal and shows you the way to the Goal and inspires you to even desire the Goal. But, "it" is not the Goal.

Is that another way of saying it, mjr?

The menu is not the meal.

And with much enthusiasm and joy - I believe mjr and I are saying this.
When we are immersed in the breadth of His Love and depth and height and length of His Loving
Self, purely delighting in Him, that which He wants for us to know - the thought of needing to read
anything disappears ---like getting lost in the Dance - we are captured in that moment of movement
and there is no need for the lesson book any longer.

But without that lesson book could we have danced and danced with our Partner in unison?

Miss Hepburn

 

[brionne]

Paul said that there's more to it than that.
I dare not boast of anything else. I have brought the Gentiles to God by my message and by the way I lived before them. I have won them over by the miracles done through me as signs from God--all by the power of God's Spirit. In this way, I have fully presented the Good News of Christ all the way from Jerusalem clear over into Illyricum. Romans 15:18&19

I think what needs to be taken into consideration is that not all who saw Pauls miracles became believers and were converted. And we dont have hordes of christians going around performing miracles today in order to convince people of the reality of Christ....so what do we have by which to become convinced of the things pertaining to Christ and God?

We have the bible. Its the very thing Paul said we would have when the miracles were finished. 1Corinthians 13:8-10

Why did Paul say that they only had 'partial knowledge' back in the first century??? It was because they didnt have the complete word of God...and because they didnt have the complete word of God, they didnt have the full picture of Gods plan. If you were achristian living in the first century, you would have to wait to hear from someone to learn about christ. But today the complete word of God has been made available and we can access it every day.

Yes, if you attribute "The word of God to be exclusively the scriptures, but the scriptures themselves do not make such a claim and in fact the scriptures refer in several places that the word of God is Jesus. The letter always leads to death but the Spirit gives Life. History has proven this to be true.

Theres a good book on the subject you may be interested in Pegg, it's "Biblical Dyslexia" by Charles Wilhelm.

Jesus himself was a reader of the hebrew scriptures Matthew 4:4,7,10 Matthew 19:4,5 ....if it was important for Jesus (who was the word of God) to read from the written word, how much moreso for us? Especially considering we are told to 'follow his steps closely' 1John 2:6

Paul also showed himself to be a reader of Gods word even though he had been annointed with holy spirit and even though he was given gifts of miracles....2Timothy 4:13... if reading the word of God was important for Paul, then it must be even moreso for those of us who do not perform miracles or are annointed with holy spirit.

And the early christians didnt simply take the words of the apostles on face value Acts 17:11 shows that they recieved the words of the apostles but then examined the hebrew scriptures to make sure that what they were being told was in fact in harmony with scipture. So it should be with us. We should use the bible to give us conviction in what we believe. It should back up our beliefs and in that way it will strengthen our faith.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nice and simple, If you had Jesus standing in your room woth you, and you where reading the bible, ad you looked up and saw Him, and He said," come, let me teach you". What would you do, put the bible down and go to Him or would you say ", no Jesus I have the bible I dont need you.". The problem is that is exactly what you are saying, The reason why christians never grow is because they never ever look up and see Jesus for they are busy trying to please their flesh, by reading the bible, trying to be approved of God. Do you know why God approves of you, Its because Jesus died on the cross for you, so that all you would need to do is have Faith and believe in Him, but it seems to me that it wasnt enough for many, whom are always trying to add to the price, was it not enough for you, Would you rahter not learn from Jesus, who is the truth, would you rather try and work it out all for yourself, you want to believe every word the disciples say, and here is Jesus rebuking Peter, " Get the behind me satan". Yes the bible tells yyou of Jesus, now that you know He is real, go to Him learn from Him, or like most chritains you will only ever read about the wonderful experiences others have and never have them for yourself. Go give Jesus a chance, He is worth the price.

 

[brionne]

Nice and simple, If you had Jesus standing in your room woth you, and you where reading the bible, ad you looked up and saw Him, and He said," come, let me teach you". What would you do, put the bible down and go to Him or would you say ", no Jesus I have the bible I dont need you.". The problem is that is exactly what you are saying, The reason why christians never grow is because they never ever look up and see Jesus for they are busy trying to please their flesh, by reading the bible, trying to be approved of God. Do you know why God approves of you, Its because Jesus died on the cross for you, so that all you would need to do is have Faith and believe in Him, but it seems to me that it wasnt enough for many, whom are always trying to add to the price, was it not enough for you, Would you rahter not learn from Jesus, who is the truth, would you rather try and work it out all for yourself, you want to believe every word the disciples say, and here is Jesus rebuking Peter, " Get the behind me satan". Yes the bible tells yyou of Jesus, now that you know He is real, go to Him learn from Him, or like most chritains you will only ever read about the wonderful experiences others have and never have them for yourself. Go give Jesus a chance, He is worth the price.

love the sentiment but unfortunately I dont have Jesus standing in my room giving me personal instruction :lol:

I've come to know him thru the pages of the bible and by striving to live the life he lived. If it werent for the gospels, i'd know very little of how he dealt with people, his personal warmth, his emotions, his generosity and love. I'd never have known that he was approachable and humble nor would I have known that he was zealous for the word of God and worked hard to show from the scriptures that the religious leaders of his day had the completely wrong idea about Gods requirements.

Let me just say that reading the bible does not draw our attention away from Jesus...it instills it and embeds the word of God in our minds and thru meditation we come to appreciate the type of person he was and then we can know how to imitate his lifecourse....thats what brings us close to jesus.

 

[mjrhealth]

love the sentiment but unfortunately I dont have Jesus standing in my room giving me personal instruction :lol:

I've come to know him thru the pages of the bible and by striving to live the life he lived. If it werent for the gospels, i'd know very little of how he dealt with people, his personal warmth, his emotions, his generosity and love. I'd never have known that he was approachable and humble nor would I have known that he was zealous for the word of God and worked hard to show from the scriptures that the religious leaders of his day had the completely wrong idea about Gods requirements.

Let me just say that reading the bible does not draw our attention away from Jesus...it instills it and embeds the word of God in our minds and thru meditation we come to appreciate the type of person he was and then we can know how to imitate his lifecourse....thats what brings us close to jesus.

Pegg have you ever invited Him in, oh and yes it does take your attention away from Jesus, for you anly choose to know about Him, when He can share the secrest of His heart with you if really want Him. He is always with you, you are just looking with your worldy eyes and cant see,

In His LOve

 

[mjrhealth]

Pegg rembered this verse, as a reminder that He is always calling.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

and a little more

Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Wouldnt you love to learn from Him.

 

[brionne]

Wouldnt you love to learn from Him.

i do learn from him

 

[jiggyfly]

We have the bible. Its the very thing Paul said we would have when the miracles were finished. 1Corinthians 13:8-10

Why did Paul say that they only had 'partial knowledge' back in the first century??? It was because they didnt have the complete word of God...and because they didnt have the complete word of God, they didnt have the full picture of Gods plan. If you were achristian living in the first century, you would have to wait to hear from someone to learn about christ. But today the complete word of God has been made available and we can access it every day.

I guess this is where we disagree, I fail to see where Paul said anything about having a bible, nor do I see in the scripture you posted any reference to the scriptures being "that which is perfect". I am familiar with this belief but disbelieve it for couple of reasons, one; theres a lack of scriptural support, two; there is scriptural support to the contrary and three; my own personal and genuine experiences with HolySpirit are to the contrary.

Again there's a huge difference between knowing about someone and being in a relationship with someone. If all you have to base your relationship on with someone is a third party's testimony of their relationship with this same someone then you really do not have a genuine relationship, wouldn't you agree?

What of all those in places like China that for many years had no bibles? Yet it was estimated that China had the largest group of believers in the world.

Don't get me wrong Pegg I appreciate the scriptures and read and study them almost everyday, but they do not take the place of HolySpirit, the text is not the Teacher, agreeing with the scriptures does not equal spiritual experience and believing in one's testimony of another does not equal relationship. We must have our own genuine experience with God in order to have a relationship with Him. If we base our faith on the scriptures rather than our true and genuine experiences with God than we do not have a real relationship with Him but rather just a religious fantasy and virtual reality so to speak.

While the scriptures are inspired and in many cases the written account of where God spoke to others, they are not the voice of God nor have they taken the place of the voice of God. God still speaks and it is of vital importance that we hear Him speak for ourselves, which is why the scriptures encourage us to to hear and listen to Him. Limiting spiritual direction and growth by the scriptures alone is one of the causes and culprits of the many different translations of scriptures and the many different belief systems and micro kingdoms within the Christian religion. The only defense against such separatism is submitting to HolySpirits leading. He is the one who communicates to us and teaches us all that Christ is saying.

 

[jiggyfly]

love the sentiment but unfortunately I dont have Jesus standing in my room giving me personal instruction :lol:

I've come to know him thru the pages of the bible and by striving to live the life he lived.

Does He live in you? I'm concerned, I see no mention of HolySpirit or any spiritual experience in your post. Do you consider relating to the pages of the bible as a genuine and personal relationship with Him? Do you have a personal relationship with Abraham, Jacob, David, Ruth, Naomi, Rahab, Peter, Paul, Mary, Balaam, Jezabel, and Satan? Their mentioned in those pages also.