Dancing With Jesus

[brionne]

I guess this is where we disagree, I fail to see where Paul said anything about having a bible, nor do I see in the scripture you posted any reference to the scriptures being "that which is perfect". I am familiar with this belief but disbelieve it for couple of reasons, one; theres a lack of scriptural support, two; there is scriptural support to the contrary and three; my own personal and genuine experiences with HolySpirit are to the contrary.

Paul was clearly speaking about miracles and prophecy as being only 'partial'....he then also says that he 'knows' only partially. This cannot mean anything except what he says it means...that what he knew and what he prophecied was only a 'partial knowledge' ....it wasnt complete.

The reason it wasnt complete was because the prophecies were not fulfilled and therefore no one quite knew exactly how they would unfold. Even Jesus said that he didnt know everything that was going to happen Mark 13:32
Its also in harmony with Daniels words at Daniel 12:4 .... true knowledge would become abundant in the 'time of the end'
We are living in the time of the end and its only because we have the complete bible that we can understand many of the prophecies in the bible...God has made understanding available but how would we know what we were understanding if it were not for the written word of God?

Again there's a huge difference between knowing about someone and being in a relationship with someone. If all you have to base your relationship on with someone is a third party's testimony of their relationship with this same someone then you really do not have a genuine relationship, wouldn't you agree?

not when it comes to God, no i wouldnt agree. God reaches out to us when we reach out to him. How will we reach out to him without some knowledge and if it wasnt for the bible, where would we get that knowledge from? I wouldnt get that knowledge from listening to a 3rd party...i would get it from Gods spirit inspired word. We must use our powers of reason rather then emotion when it comes to getting to know God. We need to be rational and logical and thats what the holy spirit and the word of God helps us to do.

What of all those in places like China that for many years had no bibles? Yet it was estimated that China had the largest group of believers in the world.

there will always be people who believe in God...its built into our consciousness because we are made in Gods image.

Don't get me wrong Pegg I appreciate the scriptures and read and study them almost everyday, but they do not take the place of HolySpirit, the text is not the Teacher, agreeing with the scriptures does not equal spiritual experience and believing in one's testimony of another does not equal relationship.

but the bible is breathed by Gods holy spirit...reading it is like reading the holy spirit. And while I agree that the holy spirit is what guides ones thinking, it will only do this this if your thinking is founded on Gods word in the first place. They really go hand in hand. Im sure you know yourself just how many varying christian beliefs are out there and they cannot logically ALL be based on the scriptures.

We must have our own genuine experience with God in order to have a relationship with Him. If we base our faith on the scriptures rather than our true and genuine experiences with God than we do not have a real relationship with Him but rather just a religious fantasy and virtual reality so to speak

But where does it all begin? Should our experience of God not begin with accurate knowledge? If we dont need that knowledge, why did the apostles bother with the preaching work? Why do churchs bother to keep their doors open?
Why did God bother to make the bible available to us at all???

While the scriptures are inspired and in many cases the written account of where God spoke to others, they are not the voice of God nor have they taken the place of the voice of God. God still speaks and it is of vital importance that we hear Him speak for ourselves, which is why the scriptures encourage us to to hear and listen to Him.

Joshua was told to read the law day and night Joshua 1:8
The reason told to him was so that he could be successful in carrying out his God-given responsibilities. Such regular reading of God’s Word can help you us in the same way. The more we know the more we can apply in our lives...the more we can live up to what God expects and if we do that that the holy spirit has more opportunity to work in us.

Limiting spiritual direction and growth by the scriptures alone is one of the causes and culprits of the many different translations of scriptures and the many different belief systems and micro kingdoms within the Christian religion. The only defense against such separatism is submitting to HolySpirits leading. He is the one who communicates to us and teaches us all that Christ is saying.

Actually, i think it works the opposite way. Its when people DONT read the bible that they come up with their own crazy ideas that are not based on the scriptures at all and then we end up with only part truths and outright lies. Not sticking to Gods word is what has caused the many thousands of divisions amongst christians. Its the very reason why there are so many different denominations today...its what caused the early church to split in the first place.

 

[brionne]

Does He live in you? I'm concerned, I see no mention of HolySpirit or any spiritual experience in your post. Do you consider relating to the pages of the bible as a genuine and personal relationship with Him? Do you have a personal relationship with Abraham, Jacob, David, Ruth, Naomi, Rahab, Peter, Paul, Mary, Balaam, Jezabel, and Satan? Their mentioned in those pages also.

what do you consider a spiritual experience?

Perhaps we have different ideas on how the spirit interacts with us. This is how i view it. We were created in Gods image, yet we do not perfectly reflect that image. We fail to think the way God thinks due to our imperfection.

If we want the holy spirit to work in us, we need to try as best we can to reflect Gods image. His greatest image is that of Love but he also has other qualities and these qualities are what we should be striving towards. Faith is important but love is more important as Paul showed at 1 Corinthians 13:13 and he showed why love is the most important at Romans 13:10 ...it fulfills all laws.

But before the spirit can work in us we need to display Godly qualities and these are found in Galatians 3:13 If we dont cultivate such qualities in our own personalities, then the holy spirit cannot dwell in us....and this in turns means that for us to cultivate the qualities of the spirit we need knowledge of Gods way of thinking, his actions, his personality, his justice and righteousness because they are all tied in with his spirit. If we dont have that knowledge it will be very difficult for us to know how we ought to think about things, or what standards we should employ, or how to act the way God would act.

I experience the holy spirit when I apply Gods thinking in my life. Its not a visible thing or a miraculous event, rather its how I think, feel, react...it encompasses my goals, desires, standards & morals. It moves me to help others and to have compassion and empathy for those who are downtrodden. The holy spirit is a way of life for me.


but im interested in how you experience the holy spirit because you seem to have mentioned experiences.

sorry, Galatians 3:13 above should be Galatians 5:22-23

 

[Paul]

Pegg rembered this verse, as a reminder that He is always calling.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

and a little more

Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Wouldnt you love to learn from Him.

And you got these verses from ------

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Nice and simple........

The reason why christians never grow ..... .

you will only ever read about the wonderful experiences others have and never have them for yourself.

I give you credit, my brother. You tell it how it is.
Very impressive.
I hope it is understood in the spirit it was offered.

 

[jiggyfly]

Paul was clearly speaking about miracles and prophecy as being only 'partial'....he then also says that he 'knows' only partially. This cannot mean anything except what he says it means...that what he knew and what he prophecied was only a 'partial knowledge' ....it wasnt complete.

The reason it wasnt complete was because the prophecies were not fulfilled and therefore no one quite knew exactly how they would unfold. Even Jesus said that he didnt know everything that was going to happen Mark 13:32
Its also in harmony with Daniels words at Daniel 12:4 .... true knowledge would become abundant in the 'time of the end'
We are living in the time of the end and its only because we have the complete bible that we can understand many of the prophecies in the bible...God has made understanding available but how would we know what we were understanding if it were not for the written word of God?




not when it comes to God, no i wouldnt agree. God reaches out to us when we reach out to him. How will we reach out to him without some knowledge and if it wasnt for the bible, where would we get that knowledge from? I wouldnt get that knowledge from listening to a 3rd party...i would get it from Gods spirit inspired word. We must use our powers of reason rather then emotion when it comes to getting to know God. We need to be rational and logical and thats what the holy spirit and the word of God helps us to do.



there will always be people who believe in God...its built into our consciousness because we are made in Gods image.



but the bible is breathed by Gods holy spirit...reading it is like reading the holy spirit. And while I agree that the holy spirit is what guides ones thinking, it will only do this this if your thinking is founded on Gods word in the first place. They really go hand in hand. Im sure you know yourself just how many varying christian beliefs are out there and they cannot logically ALL be based on the scriptures.


But where does it all begin? Should our experience of God not begin with accurate knowledge? If we dont need that knowledge, why did the apostles bother with the preaching work? Why do churchs bother to keep their doors open?
Why did God bother to make the bible available to us at all???



Joshua was told to read the law day and night Joshua 1:8
The reason told to him was so that he could be successful in carrying out his God-given responsibilities. Such regular reading of God’s Word can help you us in the same way. The more we know the more we can apply in our lives...the more we can live up to what God expects and if we do that that the holy spirit has more opportunity to work in us.


Actually, i think it works the opposite way. Its when people DONT read the bible that they come up with their own crazy ideas that are not based on the scriptures at all and then we end up with only part truths and outright lies. Not sticking to Gods word is what has caused the many thousands of divisions amongst christians. Its the very reason why there are so many different denominations today...its what caused the early church to split in the first place.

Wow seems we disagree on more than I thought, well God bless you Pegg and I pray that you will experience God more and more each day.

what do you consider a spiritual experience?

Perhaps we have different ideas on how the spirit interacts with us. This is how i view it. We were created in Gods image, yet we do not perfectly reflect that image. We fail to think the way God thinks due to our imperfection.

If we want the holy spirit to work in us, we need to try as best we can to reflect Gods image. His greatest image is that of Love but he also has other qualities and these qualities are what we should be striving towards. Faith is important but love is more important as Paul showed at 1 Corinthians 13:13 and he showed why love is the most important at Romans 13:10 ...it fulfills all laws.

But before the spirit can work in us we need to display Godly qualities and these are found in Galatians 3:13 If we dont cultivate such qualities in our own personalities, then the holy spirit cannot dwell in us....and this in turns means that for us to cultivate the qualities of the spirit we need knowledge of Gods way of thinking, his actions, his personality, his justice and righteousness because they are all tied in with his spirit. If we dont have that knowledge it will be very difficult for us to know how we ought to think about things, or what standards we should employ, or how to act the way God would act.

I experience the holy spirit when I apply Gods thinking in my life. Its not a visible thing or a miraculous event, rather its how I think, feel, react...it encompasses my goals, desires, standards & morals. It moves me to help others and to have compassion and empathy for those who are downtrodden. The holy spirit is a way of life for me.


but im interested in how you experience the holy spirit because you seem to have mentioned experiences.

sorry, Galatians 3:13 above should be Galatians 5:22-23

Sounds a little bit like a gospel of good works to me Pegg. We definitely disagree on much concerning God , the scriptures and His redemptive plan, be blessed Pegg, I pray you will continually enter into a deeper understanding of and closer relationship with God.

But I'm sure your goal is the same as mine and that is to engage with the Truth. One day we will see perfectly when we see Him face to face.

I have many spiritual experiences some I can share, some I would struggle to put to words and some are too intimate and nobody's business. Those I can share are where the spiritual gifts and ministry gifts have been manifested through me by HolySpirit. Is there in particular experiences you are interested in?

Often, not always, some people will misinterpret or misunderstand or not even really read what another writes.
They can see words pop out of a sentence and take them out of context and jump to a conclusion - of course, I'm not talking about anyone here.

The Bible is a very important. We all here know that. There is no question.

However, the fine point here is that a roadmap is not the destination. You can refer back to it and double check that you are indeed on course, naturally. But it is not the end - the Goal - it points to the Goal and shows you the way to the Goal and inspires you to even desire the Goal. But, "it" is not the Goal.

Is that another way of saying it, mjr?

The menu is not the meal.


Miss Hepburn

Good post Miss H.

 

[brionne]

Sounds a little bit like a gospel of good works to me Pegg. We definitely disagree on much concerning God , the scriptures and His redemptive plan, be blessed Pegg, I pray you will continually enter into a deeper understanding of and closer relationship with God.

But I'm sure your goal is the same as mine and that is to engage with the Truth. One day we will see perfectly when we see Him face to face.

The way back to God (back to his image) is thru imitation of Jesus Christ, imitation of his great love, his ministry, his way of life... he lived a life approved by God and thus he could say that he was just like his father. That, i believe, should be the goal that christians attain toward, to become like God. Jesus gave us a glimps of who God is and this is why we are told to 'follow his steps closely'

everything i've mentioned above are not simply 'works' that can be done consciously...they are much more then that. They are evidence of having Gods spirit in your life. We should be looking at it as conforming to the holy spirit and the qualities of that spirit. Galatians 5:22-23 show us the holy spirit in action...if we have it, we must show these qualities in our life.

None of us will show them perfectly of course, but they are certainly worth striving for.

Those I can share are where the spiritual gifts and ministry gifts have been manifested through me by HolySpirit. Is there in particular experiences you are interested in?

what are your ministry gifts?

 

[mjrhealth]

Do you really know God, I have a friend who came to Christ without a bible, She was taught by Him face to face, 6 years to learn the 1st paragraph in genesus, and you think you know it all, then She asked if she copuld go to church, and HE said yes, fot there you will find like minded people, well that proved to be the beggining of the wrecking of her faith, for she went believeing they would love Jesus like she did, and she was proven wrong, for she found they acted like they did love Jesus, but they dont know Him, then came the bible, and well like me it made it even harder to follow Jesus, for He says one thing and the bible often contardicts who He really is, For once after reading the bible, and He appeared to her and so she started to put a hankerchief on her head for she had read that a women must be covered, and He said, what are you doing and she said, the bible tells me i must be covered, and His response," did I tell you to cover yourself, and she said no,. So you see, you know lots about mens opinions of God by reading the bible, but you will never come to know His heart and mind or His nature by reading it, for it is full of mens opinions, just like all these chrstian forums, and you wonder why there is so much division, oh how satan laughs at us, for it is so simple but we make it so complicated, my flesh realy greievs me for it hinders me so much in my walk.

You say we must wall in faith, well do it then, take a step in faith, go to Jesus and ask Him, " Is this how it really is" and believe that He will answer you. It can do nothing but bring you into the truth, if that is what you really want.

In His LOve

 

[mjrhealth]

n order to imiate him?

Well apes imitate , thats why its called aping, birds can imitate sounds, fish can change their colour to match their surrounding, men can appear to be so wonderful yet be so nasty, even satan can appear as an agle of light to those who are in darkness, We are not here to imitate Christ, we are here to let Him live His life throuigh us, and the ony way that can happen is for you to let Him into your life and let Him change you and let Him conform you to His image, that cannot be learned through books, but doing it your way will keep you in bondage, and how will you know He is there, its when you can tell people all about your experieneces with Him, and they will note the excitement in your voice, and you wont need the bible to do it.

Knowing Christ is an experience not a book.

in His LOve

 

[jiggyfly]

The way back to God (back to his image) is thru imitation of Jesus Christ, imitation of his great love, his ministry, his way of life... he lived a life approved by God and thus he could say that he was just like his father. That, i believe, should be the goal that christians attain toward, to become like God. Jesus gave us a glimps of who God is and this is why we are told to 'follow his steps closely'

everything i've mentioned above are not simply 'works' that can be done consciously...they are much more then that. They are evidence of having Gods spirit in your life. We should be looking at it as conforming to the holy spirit and the qualities of that spirit. Galatians 5:22-23 show us the holy spirit in action...if we have it, we must show these qualities in our life.

None of us will show them perfectly of course, but they are certainly worth striving for.

I consider those HolySpirit's works in and through me, I simply can not take any credit for someone else's work.

what are your ministry gifts?

Again they're not "my" ministry gifts they are the works of Christ via HolySpirit to the body. But at one time or another all of them have manifested and ministered through me.

Well apes imitate , thats why its called aping, birds can imitate sounds, fish can change their colour to match their surrounding, men can appear to be so wonderful yet be so nasty, even satan can appear as an agle of light to those who are in darkness, We are not here to imitate Christ, we are here to let Him live His life throuigh us, and the ony way that can happen is for you to let Him into your life and let Him change you and let Him conform you to His image, that cannot be learned through books, but doing it your way will keep you in bondage, and how will you know He is there, its when you can tell people all about your experieneces with Him, and they will note the excitement in your voice, and you wont need the bible to do it.

Knowing Christ is an experience not a book.

in His LOve

Huge amen Mjrhealth!

 

[fivesense]

We have the bible. Its the very thing Paul said we would have when the miracles were finished. 1Corinthians 13:8-10

Why did Paul say that they only had 'partial knowledge' back in the first century??? It was because they didnt have the complete word of God...and because they didnt have the complete word of God, they didnt have the full picture of Gods plan. If you were achristian living in the first century, you would have to wait to hear from someone to learn about christ. But today the complete word of God has been made available and we can access it every day.

Jesus himself was a reader of the hebrew scriptures Matthew 4:4,7,10 Matthew 19:4,5 ....if it was important for Jesus (who was the word of God) to read from the written word, how much moreso for us? Especially considering we are told to 'follow his steps closely' 1John 2:6

Paul also showed himself to be a reader of Gods word even though he had been annointed with holy spirit and even though he was given gifts of miracles....2Timothy 4:13... if reading the word of God was important for Paul, then it must be even moreso for those of us who do not perform miracles or are annointed with holy spirit.

And the early christians didnt simply take the words of the apostles on face value Acts 17:11 shows that they recieved the words of the apostles but then examined the hebrew scriptures to make sure that what they were being told was in fact in harmony with scipture. So it should be with us. We should use the bible to give us conviction in what we believe. It should back up our beliefs and in that way it will strengthen our faith.

It occurred to me Pegg, while going through your responses, the kenosis, the emptying of Christ in order to become flesh, must have been so complete that the Holy Spirit says this:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phl 2:8

Being found in fashion as a man....I am forced to consider how it must have been through His knowledge of the Writings that He became aware of who He was and His mission, seeing Himself at every turn of the page since He started to read them. It dawned on Him at an early age( "I must be about my Father's business"), and I am willing to bet that the emptying was so complete, so absolute, that His knowledge alone of the Holy Scriptures is what brought forth that recognition. This would be amazing were it so, and only goes to show the depth of the humiliation He endured by leaving the heavens to become like us. It also agrees with your confidence in the Written Word.

fivesense

I also want to add Pegg, that there were those who followed Him for the loaves and the fishes. They were not concerned with being transformed by the renewing of their mind, but how well their soul was prospering in His presence. Maturity comes with growing in wisdom and knowledge, and discernment comes from execising one's faculties. Mysticism has its roots in the believer who will not submit to the Word as it is revealed, but insists on flight and fancy through imagination. It is not the Christ of God they are seeking, they are looking to amplify the own egos by spirits not yet reconciled to the Glorious One.

 

[brionne]

It occurred to me Pegg, while going through your responses, the kenosis, the emptying of Christ in order to become flesh, must have been so complete that the Holy Spirit says this:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phl 2:8

Being found in fashion as a man....I am forced to consider how it must have been through His knowledge of the Writings that He became aware of who He was and His mission, seeing Himself at every turn of the page since He started to read them. It dawned on Him at an early age( "I must be about my Father's business"), and I am willing to bet that the emptying was so complete, so absolute, that His knowledge alone of the Holy Scriptures is what brought forth that recognition. This would be amazing were it so, and only goes to show the depth of the humiliation He endured by leaving the heavens to become like us. It also agrees with your confidence in the Written Word.

fivesense

yes thats a good point. You might also recall the event in Jesus life when, as a 12 yr old, he went missing for 3 days when the family were returning home from the passover in jerusalem. Luke 2:46-47 He was found sitting with the teachers in the temple questioning them and giving his own answers, and the people listening were said to be amazed at his understanding. It shows that even as a young boy he had learnt from the scriptures and could reason on them well enough to sit with learned men and have a deep spiritual discussion.....all this before he was annointed in holy spirit.

The important point in all this is that knowledge (John 17:3) leads us to the holy spirit....not the other way around imo.

 

[jiggyfly]

Maturity comes with growing in wisdom and knowledge, and discernment comes from execising one's faculties. Mysticism has its roots in the believer who will not submit to the Word as it is revealed, but insists on flight and fancy through imagination. It is not the Christ of God they are seeking, they are looking to amplify the own egos by spirits not yet reconciled to the Glorious One.

Are you referring to spiritual maturity here? If so, what kind of knowledge and wisdom?

You made some strong accusations about those believers involved in what is termed mysticism. Do you have any sources to support your opinion? Some of the writings of the mystics I have read reveal humble and modest character, so I am curious as to which ones you are referring.

yes thats a good point. You might also recall the event in Jesus life when, as a 12 yr old, he went missing for 3 days when the family were returning home from the passover in jerusalem. Luke 2:46-47 He was found sitting with the teachers in the temple questioning them and giving his own answers, and the people listening were said to be amazed at his understanding. It shows that even as a young boy he had learnt from the scriptures and could reason on them well enough to sit with learned men and have a deep spiritual discussion.....all this before he was annointed in holy spirit.

The important point in all this is that knowledge (John 17:3) leads us to the holy spirit....not the other way around imo.

So in your opinion where does this knowledge come from and what is this a knowledge of? Are you familiar with the term gnosticism?

I wonder what you make of this scripture?
"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we don't know what you mean. We haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." Paul said, "John's baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later." As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied.

 

[fivesense]

Are you referring to spiritual maturity here? If so, what kind of knowledge and wisdom?

You made some strong accusations about those believers involved in what is termed mysticism. Do you have any sources to support your opinion? Some of the writings of the mystics I have read reveal humble and modest character, so I am curious as to which ones you are referring.

So in your opinion where does this knowledge come from and what is this a knowledge of? Are you familiar with the term gnosticism?

I wonder what you make of this scripture?
"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we don't know what you mean. We haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." Paul said, "John's baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later." As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied.

Hi Jiggyfly, thanks for being a part of this thread and poking around.

Mysticism is defined as a religion based on mystical communion with an ultimate reality. It can be seen practiced by the reclusive enclaves of monastics and the Buddhist venerates. The fact that the Body is one, and all are headed towards the same consummation, transformation into the image of Jesus Christ, the advancements in the spirit realm must be made towards that end. Individual practice of a "higher" communion with God, apart from the awareness of the Body as a whole only leads to self-aggrandizement and pre-occupation. The eye cannot say, "I have no need of thee" to the hand, and vice versa. This is typical of those who believe themselves to be at a level different than the rest of the Body. They perceive themselves to be unique and separate from the rest, as a result of their many revelations. Paul was so impacted by the intensity of the revelations he received of the Lord, that a messenger of Satan was enlisted by God to control the tendency to become too self-exaltant.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me
a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2C 12:7

Not being able to discern the Body is a serious impediment to any believer, and being overly absorbed with one's spiritual side can lead to an imbalance. I was involved with Rosicrucianism for several years which is a form of Christian mysticism. I know the agenda and the philosophy that is promoted. It does not involve the Body, though it is extremely spiritual in its essense and teaching. It is a deception and a counterfeit of the works of God.


As to wisdom and knowledge, and the Source of that for us, without the Scriptures to define the parameters of the will of God, i.e, to become All in all, it would become a smorgasboard of unlimited spiritual venues. The Holy Writ has put forth those things which are of value to God, and He has made plain the way to life for the age to come. To approach this way according to knowledge outside the Scriptures' confirming power and witness is to invite deception and error. What can be known of God by human reasoning is confined and limited to what has been spoken and recorded there. As to the never ending desire of the flesh and mind for more of a good thing, it must be gotten lawfully and in an orderly manner, with the aid of Holy Spirit. Once again, all these things must lend themselve to the goal, transformation into the image of the Son that the Father may become All in all.

Concerning Acts 19, and Paul's activities, it will be noted that these were Jewish believers (disciples) not Gentiles. None but the Jew was baptized with John's baptism at this time, the Jews from Jerusalem not willing to go the the nations with the evangel, but only to their own race,

Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled
as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. Ac 11:19

The record is true, and the fact that the Jewish believers did not preach to the Gentiles, other than Cornelius and the Ethiopian eunich, is established and evidenced by Holy Spirit and is irrefutable. Those who would wish to extend their activities to the whole world are wishful in their thinking and expand the Word of God at their own whim.

The gifts of the Spirit, meant to herald the approaching Kingdom of God and the presence of the King on earth, are Jewish and functional. With Israe'ls refusal to administer the evangel, the gifts are in abeyance til His advent once again for the saints and judgment of the nations. This passage, Acts 19:6, is in fulfillment of Joel 2:27, and the promise of God to Israel. Peter declares its fulfillment in Acts 2:16. Had all Israel repented the last portion of the terrors described by Peter would not have been forestalled, and the secret of the Body would never have been revealed or needed.

By the way Jiggyfly, I enjoyed Madam Guyon's writing much, and her dedication to God and His loveliness are irreproachable. But considering the forementioned things, we are all in this phase of God's plan together, and priorities must be sought out with care.

fivesense

 

[truthquest]

I think we all agree that the bible is important. Man does not live on bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. (Matt. 4:4) Reading and studying the bible brings us closer to God and builds us up spiritually and equips us for every good work. 2Tim. 3 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, [sup]17[/sup] that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
And this is eternal life: to know You, the only true God, and to know Him, Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent. (John 17:3)
The word of God is the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is necessary in spiritual warfare. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. (Eph. 6:17)
But we also take time to meditate on these things. I remember the days of old; I meditate on all Your doings; I ponder the work of Your hands. (Psalm 143:5) We ponder the things that God has made that gives evidence of God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen...so that men are without excuse. (Rom. 1:20) We look into the sky at night and see the stars; To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal? Says the Holy One. Lift your eyes and look to the heavens. Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing." (Isa. 40:25-26)
I believe it is important to read and study the bible daily to make sure that what we are being taught or what we believe is true. Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)

 

[jiggyfly]

As to wisdom and knowledge, and the Source of that for us, without the Scriptures to define the parameters of the will of God, i.e, to become All in all, it would become a smorgasboard of unlimited spiritual venues. The Holy Writ has put forth those things which are of value to God, and He has made plain the way to life for the age to come. To approach this way according to knowledge outside the Scriptures' confirming power and witness is to invite deception and error. What can be known of God by human reasoning is confined and limited to what has been spoken and recorded there. As to the never ending desire of the flesh and mind for more of a good thing, it must be gotten lawfully and in an orderly manner, with the aid of Holy Spirit. Once again, all these things must lend themselve to the goal, transformation into the image of the Son that the Father may become All in all.



fivesense

OK can you give me some scripture concerning God's Love? What is the breadth? What is the length? What is the depth? What is the height?

Concerning Acts 19, and Paul's activities, it will be noted that these were Jewish believers (disciples) not Gentiles. None but the Jew was baptized with John's baptism at this time, the Jews from Jerusalem not willing to go the the nations with the evangel, but only to their own race,

Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled
as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. Ac 11:19

The record is true, and the fact that the Jewish believers did not preach to the Gentiles, other than Cornelius and the Ethiopian eunich, is established and evidenced by Holy Spirit and is irrefutable. Those who would wish to extend their activities to the whole world are wishful in their thinking and expand the Word of God at their own whim.

The point I was making with this scripture is that they had not even heard of HolySpirit, so Pegg's statement that "knowledge leads us to HolySpirit" is not conducive with the scriptures. They had no knowledge of HolySpirit yet they were baptized in HolySpirit, prophesied and spoke in other tongues

The gifts of the Spirit, meant to herald the approaching Kingdom of God and the presence of the King on earth, are Jewish and functional. With Israe'ls refusal to administer the evangel, the gifts are in abeyance til His advent once again for the saints and judgment of the nations. This passage, Acts 19:6, is in fulfillment of Joel 2:27, and the promise of God to Israel. Peter declares its fulfillment in Acts 2:16. Had all Israel repented the last portion of the terrors described by Peter would not have been forestalled, and the secret of the Body would never have been revealed or needed.

So do you believe that the believers at Corinth were all Jewish? Didn't the promise include all flesh and not just Jewish flesh? What do you make of those who were of other nationalities but converted to Judaism, do they receive the spiritual gifts? Do you have any scripture that speaks of this abeyance directly?

 

[mjrhealth]

Knowledge, what good does it do,

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Even satan knows the scriptures, as for knowing about God,

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble

So now you are equal to satan in your knowledge.

As for Jesus, He was God from the begginning, Born of the Spirirt by the Spirirt, Why is it that He says, " the words that I SPEAK they are spirirt and they are Life. God spoke a word, Mary believed and so Life was conceived within Her, and so Gods word'Jesus " was born in the flesh, and it was because of His flesh that He says,

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

If you in your flesh cannot stop sinning for 2 minutes do you think Jesus would of being able to not sin for 30 years unless He was walking in the spirit. Why do you think He was in constant prayer,?

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

And this speak volumes of todays christians

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Pich your church or bible version and relplace Paul and Apollos with them.

As for the apostels whe nall the rest left for it got too hard

Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus is the only one with the words of Life, so to whom will you go,

In His LOve

Missed a bit

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

I hate quoting scripture, but carnall christians lick it up like mik

 

[truthquest]

Knowledge, what good does it do,

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Even satan knows the scriptures, as for knowing about God,

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble

So now you are equal to satan in your knowledge.

As for Jesus, He was God from the begginning, Born of the Spirirt by the Spirirt, Why is it that He says, " the words that I SPEAK they are spirirt and they are Life. God spoke a word, Mary believed and so Life was conceived within Her, and so Gods word'Jesus " was born in the flesh, and it was because of His flesh that He says,

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

If you in your flesh cannot stop sinning for 2 minutes do you think Jesus would of being able to not sin for 30 years unless He was walking in the spirit. Why do you think He was in constant prayer,?

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

And this speak volumes of todays christians

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Pich your church or bible version and relplace Paul and Apollos with them.

As for the apostels whe nall the rest left for it got too hard

Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus is the only one with the words of Life, so to whom will you go,

In His LOve

Missed a bit

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

I hate quoting scripture, but carnall christians lick it up like mik

Knowledge (of the word of God) is power against the enemy, Satan the devil.

Quote:" How qould it be, if your partner was a famous person and a book was written about them, and so everday you read it, while your partner waits in bed for you to go and love them. How long do you think that relationship will last."

"Partner" is a politically correct term when used this way. Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer the terms, "my husband" or "my wife".

 

[mjrhealth]

We can go on quoting scripture a day

1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

But it wont get you any closer to Christ or make you any more knowledgable then the devil

In His LOve

 

[brionne]

So in your opinion where does this knowledge come from and what is this a knowledge of? Are you familiar with the term gnosticism?

I wonder what you make of this scripture?
"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we don't know what you mean. We haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." Paul said, "John's baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later." As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied.

The knowledge that I speak of is the knowledge of God as revealed to us in the pages of his inspired word. It is the knowledge of his purpose, his plans, his dealings with the nations, his moral standards, his justice, wisdom and power. The bible is the only source of this knowledge.

I do know a bit about the gnostics and im guessing that that 'scripture' you are using may have come from them? If so, then i dont think anything of the scripture because its not a scripture inspired by God.

Unfortunately, gnosticism did not begin in christianity, it had its roots in babylonish religions...even in eastern mystic religions which is opposed to God. I say they are opposed to him because they do not originate with the Almighty God but originate in the minds of men.

 

[jiggyfly]

The knowledge that I speak of is the knowledge of God as revealed to us in the pages of his inspired word. It is the knowledge of his purpose, his plans, his dealings with the nations, his moral standards, his justice, wisdom and power. The bible is the only source of this knowledge.

I do know a bit about the gnostics and im guessing that that 'scripture' you are using may have come from them? If so, then i dont think anything of the scripture because its not a scripture inspired by God.

Unfortunately, gnosticism did not begin in christianity, it had its roots in babylonish religions...even in eastern mystic religions which is opposed to God. I say they are opposed to him because they do not originate with the Almighty God but originate in the minds of men.

Guess again, the scripture I quoted is Acts 19:2-6.
We obviously disagree on the abilities of HolySpirit. Be blessed Pegg.