Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He makes ridiculous comments like that often which is why no one takes him seriously. Obviously, no one wants to be deceived. A more ridiculous comment than that has never been made in the history of the world.
Daniel's 1260 vs. 1290 vs. 1335 vs 2300 Days Prophecies (Abomination of Desolation Was the Crucifixion)
- Thread starter Exegesis
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Do you know your Bible? What does your Bible show you about angels appearing on earth? See the Genesis 18 and 19 examples. Three men appeared at Abraham's tent door, and one of them was Lord Jesus before... He was born through woman's womb. What does Hebrews 13:2 say?
Angels don't need a flesh body to appear here on earth in our 'earthly' dimension, nor in order to live upon this earth.
But a lot of pastors believe angels put on a flesh body to appear on earth, but just the opposite idea is written in The Bible, like that Hebrews 13:2 verse. Many also wrongly believe that the image of 'man' began with flesh, when it actually originated from our Heavenly Father's Own Image Likeness, per Genesis 1:26-27.
Many also wrongly believe that the pit of hell, Satan's abode, is inside the earth, literally. The Biblical evidence is that Satan's realm and abode is in the 'heavenly' dimension. Only when that war in Heaven of Rev.12:7 forward happens will Satan with his angels be cast out of the heavenly dimension, and instead into our earthly dimension, in plain sight.
The parable God gave about Satan in Ezekiel 28 using the "king of Tyrus" as a type for Satan, reveals that Satan will be destroyed by being turned to ashes upon the earth in sight of all those who see him. That suggests here on earth in our 'earthly' dimension is where he will be destroyed, in plain sight.
How can all this be? some might ask. Why would Satan want to appear on earth in sight of men?
It's because of what Satan did in the 'old world', having coveted God's Throne. That is how he originally fell. Satan still wants to be GOD, and worshiped as GOD, and that is what he is coming to try to do, again. He cannot try to pull that off by hiding in the heavenly dimension, or just by possessing someone. The world has to see him as GOD on earth, like Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.
Davy
Well-Known Member
It is YOUR comments that are RIDDICULOUS. You must live in a BUBBLE. Or better yet, your head is definitely... in the sand when it comes to Bible prophecy about the end.
IF... you believe all will be well in Jerusalem during the coming "great tribulation", then THAT reveals you WANT to be deceived, almost like... YOU ARE ASKING FOR IT.
Are you pushing that everything's going to be OK in Israel during the trib, because the trib is ONLY upon Christians, because you are trying... to deceive others along with you? At this point based on what you have said, I'm inclined believe that is more of your purpose here than to speak what The Bible actually says as written.
You have no idea what I think I never said anything about Jerusalem or even believe what you said and think that I believe
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Just keep in mind that you're talking to someone who probably has the worst reading comprehension skills of anyone on this forum, so he does almost nothing but misrepresent what people believe.
Davy
Well-Known Member
In your post#15, ...
YOU said, and I quote:
"Hello again' the great tribulation is on the church not Isreal"
_________________________________________
I even copied your quoted misspelling of the name Israel.
____________________________________
YOU also said the following, and I quote:
"I do believe that it started the day Stephen was killed and it is still happening today."
______________________________________
Your above statement shows you believe the "great tribulation" began with the early 1st century persecution of Christ's Church, instead of believing the actual Bible Scripture prophecy where Jesus showed the "great tribulation" will happen at the very END of this world in the generation of His 2nd coming (Matthew 24:15-31).
Furthermore, I am well aware that Orthodox unbelieving religious Jews in today's state of Israel are 'trying'... to proclaim that God's Salvation is near with the coming of the Biblical Messiah, and they are petitioning for Christian Churches to join them in providing funds to build the next Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and that SAFETY will be in Jerusalem for the coming trib, which is all a LIE. Jerusalem at the very end of this world will be ground zero for Satan's headquarters over the whole earth. That is what Bible prophecy reveals. Thus YOUR deception is guaranteed if you REJECT the actual Bible prophecies written of about the end of this world.
You said that "I believe that all will be well with Jerusalem in the great tribulation". I didn't mention Jerusalem during the great tribulation so you have no idea what I believe. What I believe is exactually what the bible says about the great tribulation below so I'm not being deceived.
Revelation 7
The Great Multitude in White Robes
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb
Acts 7
The Stoning of Stephen
54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.
8 And Saul approved of their killing him.
The Church Persecuted and Scattered
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.I believe that Jerusalem has nothing to do with the great tribulation there is a wrath by God on Israel a tribulation but that is different than the great tribulation
Davy
Well-Known Member
WOW!! You can't even admit to what you said before! You need to man-up and admit that you said...
YOU said, and I quote:
___________________________________________________________________________
"Hello again' the great tribulation is on the church not Isreal"
___________________________________________________________________________
And with what you later said in that same... post, that you believed it began with the persecution of the prophet Stephen (Acts 7), that reveals the false doctrine of men that falsely tries to claim the "great tribulation" is NOT for the very END of this world, but began with the early Church and continues.
Yep that's what I said and I'm not saying that I didn't say that are you even reading my post? The bible verses I provided even back that up.
That is what I said and believe then I added this to the bottom of my post
I believe that Jerusalem has nothing to do with the great tribulation there is a wrath by God on Israel a tribulation but that is different than the great tribulation
I also believe that the tribulation Jesus mentioned in Mathew 24 is different and talking about the end of the age the temple and sacrificial age that ended in 70AD not the end of the world. Thats why Jesu said that it would happen within the generation, and it did.
TrevorHL
Member
Greetings Exegesis,
Kind regards
Trevor
Yes, the 2300 years is a good place to start. I consider the 2300 years of the treading down of Jerusalem by a hostile Gentile Power starts at the overthrow of the Persian Ram by the Grecian Goat in BC 334-333 and the 2300 years brings us to AD 1967 when the Jews regained possession of Jerusalem.
Kind regards
Trevor
That's a good one for sure. I have a PDF that goes into a lot of detail:
Thanks for sharing!
Yes. I am trying to gage the level of intellect on this forum to see how much people know around here. Getting too deep in this topics tends to freak people out.
I see fallen angels and non-fallen angels as having different physiology.
I would interpret those as non-fallen.
I am not sure what you mean by 'flesh' as there are different kinds described in the Bible. There are bodies celestial, etc.. Jesus came back with flesh and bones.
It depends what you mean by 'put on'. The redeemed will clothe themselves with a heavenly tabernacle. The fallen angels can do the opposite and clothe themselves with an earthly tabernacle.
Are you suggesting that Adam was originally created as soul and spirit only? In other words, he was created as an 'ethereal' being (without a physical body) who was later clothed with an earthly tabernacle?
Why not both? He falls from heaven and he comes out of a bottomless pit.
Cast out of heaven in plain sight eh? I am not sure about that.
That I can agree with.
Satan wants to sit in the temple of God. I interpret that as the temple body.
By 'fell', you mean the forbidden fruit incident or something else?
I agree.
I agree.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You already revealed in you other posts that you wrongly believe the "great tribulation" began back in the Apostle's days, so already you place your belief on the matter OUTSIDE The Bible as written.
Just because at the start of Lord Jesus' Olivet discourse He mentions that the day would come when there would not be one stone atop another at the temple mount His disciples saw, does NOT mean all those SIGNS He gave were for 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.
Anyone with common sense ought to be able to figure out than when Jesus gave the SIGN of His future 2nd coming and gathering of His saints, that MUST mean the final generation on earth. The person with common sense doesn't need some deceived preacher telling them different, the Scripture speaks for itself.
Humm outside of what the scriptures show eh
Revelation 7
The Great Multitude in White Robes
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb
Acts 7
The Stoning of Stephen
54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.
8 And Saul approved of their killing him.
The Church Persecuted and Scattered
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I certainly do not. All angels have a spirit body, not a flesh body. The idea that an angel needs flesh to appear on earth in our earthly dimension is a myth from men's doctrines, mainly those who cannot think in The Spirit.
Definitely.
If you are referring to Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15, it is easy to read wrong what he said. He was only trying to explain the differences between the bodies of our earthly dimension vs. those of the heavenly. And the idea of 'celestial' bodies that he mentioned many confuse with spirit, which celestial actually refers to the bodies of planets, stars, nebula, galaxies, etc., which are still of our 'earthly' dimension. The whole universe is part of the earthly dimension, which is of material matter. Even the ether of outer space is made up of material matter, as there is no such thing as a pure vacuum.
But the heavenly dimension is one of Spirit, and not material earthly matter (Heb.11:3). Angels, cherubim, etc., are spirit beings. They have no need for a flesh body. They still have an outward image likeness though, just as our Heavenly Father does also. And it is the image of man. That is why the angels are called "sons of God".
Put on is just a Biblical expression. There's other Bible Scripture which explains in greater detail just what the resurrection body is, like in 1 Cor.15. Paul said it is a "spiritual body". That means one made up of Spirit. Paul also referred to it as the "image of the heavenly". In 2 Cor.5, Paul showed that we each 'already' have that spirit body dwelling inside our flesh body. In Matthew 10:28, Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul. So that means our soul also is not made of flesh, but is of Spirit. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 even gives us the detail about the "silver cord" which if it is severed, our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. That reveals that "silver cord" is something invisible to keeps our spirit body/soul attached to our flesh body while alive on earth. When our flesh dies, we no longer need a flesh body, as our spirit body with soul immediately appears in the heavenly dimension.
Thus our spirit body with soul is NOT made of material matter at all, but is made of Spirit. In John 4:24, he said "God is a Spirit". And the Hebrews 11:3 verse reveals that God created the material universe by His Spirit, yet the material universe still is not... Spirit.
I find that many brethren, including many pastors, are Biblically illiterate on this matter, and rely more on their fleshy understanding instead of searching out these details that are written in God's Word.
We won't know that until our flesh dies, or is changed. So if you are thinking that your flesh is part of your actual 'person', then you haven't paid attention to Bible Scripture which shows different, particularly what Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul said. Jesus said those of the resurrection are 'as' the angels of God in heaven. He meant that literally, whether you want to believe it or not.
Those are just expressions, idioms. Revelation 12:7-11 shows Satan will be cast out of HEAVEN down to this earth at the end of this world. So if hell and the bottomless pit is literally inside the earth, which means in our 'earthly' dimension, then how is it he is back in HEAVEN again per Rev.12:7? And there are pastors who wrongly believe that war of Rev.12:7 was history, when it was not, just because they cannot fathom how Satan could be in Heaven still when he is supposed to have originally fallen from heaven.
It's all a euphemism, and even comparable to our earthly dimension operations. We have prisons here on earth for the wicked, in places of separation. The bottomless pit, and hell, represents a place of separation in the Heavenly away from God. It's even called Satan's prison (Rev.20:7; Isaiah 42:7; Isaiah 49:8; Isaiah 61:1; 1 Peter 3:18-19).
If you are still here when it happens, you still may not be sure about that. But since hearing about now, you might understand then. Go over that Rev.12:7-17 Scripture very closely. Those are not events that happened at Satan's original fall.
Interpreting Paul's "temple of God" in 2 Thess.2:3-4 will be the downfall of many brethren when that happens during the coming "great tribulation". The early Church fathers, like Hippolytus, interpreted that "temple of God" to mean a literal stone temple in Jerusalem that the "man of sin" will sit in to play God, and I agree with him, as that is how that Scripture is actually written.
It is men's doctrines from the crept in unawares that have tried to change the meaning of that to Christ's Temple of The Spirit, which is blasphemy, because per Ephesians 2 the Temple of The Spirit is made up of the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ Himself as its CORNERSTONE. So how... could that ever... be corrupted by any spirit, or any flesh man, or religious organization? And understanding that ought to be really easy, which just goes to show one how deceived even some preachers are.
Oh no, you need to back up quite a bit in your timeline thinking. Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne in the 'old world', in the "world that then was". Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3 was actually defining 3 world earth ages, not 2.
In the 1st world earth age, which was before God created Adam, it was back then when Satan drew a third of the angels ("stars" per Rev.12:3-4) to earth with him in rebellion because he wanted to be GOD, and coveted GOD's throne. This was also hinted at in the parable of Ezekiel 28 about the "king of Tyrus" that I mentioned. Satan was originally created by God 'perfect in his ways' that Scripture says. It was Satan's original job as a 'covering cherub' to guard God's Throne. Satan originally served God in the beginning. But Satan coveted God's Throne instead, and that is how he fell originally, even having been the first to have sinned in the beginning (1 John 3:8),
So when... did Satan originally 'serve'... God at His Throne, one must ask their self? That was definitely prior to the man Adam and prior to Adam and Eve's sin. By the time Satan was in Eden tempting Eve, he was already in his role as adversary against God, showing he had already fallen. Many brethren have a difficult time thinking back that far in the Biblical timeline, yet it is written. It's just not popularly taught, as most congregations as a whole wouldn't understand, so most Church systems think.
Bummer you don't understand the difference yet. Unfortunately, I will not be able to have any meaningful discussion with you on this topic.
Indeed.
Is there a reason you ignored my reference to Jesus having flesh and bones after the resurrection?
He even goes out of the way to mention spirit. Looks like you got it wrong. Strike one.
Predictable response. Any kind of contradiction to your beliefs is the Bible's fault, not yours. You claim it must be a 'figure of speech' by which you yourself will define instead of letting the Bible define it. Strike two.
You have part of the equation solved. That is a good start. Let's take a look at the verse:
Obtaining the glorified body is a multi-stage process. What you have figured out is the first stage. Yes, the redeemed are raised as soul + spirit only. They do not have a physical body yet. Obviously, when the Harpazo happens, the redeemed are in an ethereal state.
What you have yet to understand is the next stage. That is when the redeemed are clothed after partaking of the fruit on the Tree of Life. It is obvious you have no understanding of that as well. Strike three.
You are kind of right. The soul is different from the spirit, yet they work in harmony. Physical life is tripartite.
Yes.
The redeemed first go to Abraham's Bosom, i.e., Paradise. The unredeemed first go to Hell.
Your comment is contradictory.
I will have to comment on that another time.
And, here we go with the bla bla bla "my understanding is superior" spiel. So tiresome.
Yes!!! Do you get it yet? You are so close to having it all solved.
Here we go again... lol. One minute the Word of God is literal, the next minute it is not. How convenient.
Do you understand that this has happened many times already?
You literally gave the answer in your post.
It is past, potentially present, and yet also future. You believe there was only one war, and it hasn't even happened yet? Michael fights one time and that's it? That is definitely incorrect if that is what you believe.
Ah, the meat of the word. Good. There is potential for you and I to have a deeper discussion on this one day.
'When' it happens? It happens all the time. Yet another piece of the puzzle you need to work on:
It was already at work way back then and goes on every day.
Oh I am sure. Thanks.
I have a tremendous amount of research into the Book of Revelation. Chapter 12 is a specialty for me. I understand it more than most people on the internet. I'm not bragging, it's just fact.
I agree.
Strike four.
There is a poster on this forum that is always chastising others for believing 'doctrines of men'. Have you met him?
How ironic.
No comment.
Cornerstone = Abraham's seed. Born again is literal. You definitely have trouble with understanding naked (spirit + soul) vs. clothed (spirit + soul + body).
Lol, you sure love pointing fingers don't you? Just as an FYI, there are some very intelligent people that read these posts of yours and when they see comments like that, it makes you look ignorant. Moreover, it reduces your credibility by quite a bit. I would suggest dropping that huge chip on your shoulder and humble yourself a tad. Your constant bullying tactics make you appear insecure and unhinged. Just sayin.
I mean, just look at your typical 'freak out session' you had at the begginning of the thread:
Again, your constant 'crying wolf' does nothing but make you look bad.
Yikes. I rejected those teachings eons ago as being extremely unbiblical. Oh well. We will have to agree to disagree. I appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to share your thoughts.
Davy
Well-Known Member
If you are thinking our flesh body is what the resurrection is about, then yes, I understand that very well, that that idea is not written in God's Word but is an old Jewish traditional idea. I have shown the Bible Scripture to prove what I'm saying on that too (Eccl.12:5-7; 2 Cor.5; 1 Cor.15; Matt.22:30; 1 Peter 4:5-6).
As for angels having flesh bodies, nope, afraid not, no such idea written anywhere in God's Word. Nor did Christ have a flesh body when He appeared to Abraham back in the Old Testament. If you say He did, then that would mean Christ had already been born once already through woman's womb, which definitely is fallacy and a lie. At the end of John 8 Jesus showed that He had met Abraham, and the 'blind' Pharisee Jews there picked up stones and tried to stone Him for declaring Himself as The I AM in Abraham's day.
You mean Luke 24:39. I didn't see you reference that. And I had already explained, maybe not here but in other of my posts, per 1 Corinthians 15 Apostle Paul showed that Christ's flesh body was 'quickened' to the spiritual body type, which is what the resurrection is, a spiritual body. Maybe you missed... reading the following and instead just accepted the old Jewish traditions about the resurrection:
1 Cor 15:45-50
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
If Apostle Paul had not taught the above Truth, then the deceived could have their way with men's fabrications of what the resurrection is about.
Lord Jesus' flesh body was not found. You know why? Because like Paul said above (and Peter also in 1 Peter 3:18), that Lord Jesus' flesh body was 'quickened' by The Spirit to a heavenly spirit body. OUR flesh body won't be, but decays and is no more like Eccl.12:5-7 shows. But Lord Jesus' flesh body was different in that it was never found, and once changed, it retained the marks of His crucifixion. That is not what happens with our flesh bodies, we are not Christ. He was GOD come in the flesh, remember? We aren't.
I have not got it wrong.
You simply heed men's doctrines instead of keeping God's Word as written. Your view from fleshy men's minds is where the strike out is, because it goes directly against what Apostle Paul taught in that 1 Corinthians 15 Scripture I just posted.
Your view tells me immediately that you don't really study all of God's Word, but just pull bits n' pieces from it that you want, and instead you create your own Bible version from the bits n' pieces. That's what MEN'S DOCTRINES do, which YOU are on, and thus YOUR words are NOT to be trusted.
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