Daniel's (Little Horn) Paul's (Man Of Sin) John's (The Beast) All The Same Bad Guy (The Antichrist)

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Zao is life

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Your reformed Preterist Escgatology Is Jesuit Catholic driven (Luis De Alcasar), trying to remove the future human man "The Antichrist" with false claims of 1st Century Fulfillment

Wikipedia: Preterism

At the time of the Counter-Reformation, the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar wrote a prominent preterist exposition of prophecy. Moses Stuart noted in 1845 that Alcasar's preterist interpretation advantaged the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants, and Kenneth Newport in an eschatological commentary in 2000 described preterism as a Catholic defense against the Protestant historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.

Due to resistance from Protestant historicists, the preterist view was slow to gain acceptance outside the Roman Catholic Church. Among Protestants preterism was first accepted by Hugo Grotius (1583-1645), a Dutch Protestant eager to establish common ground between Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church. His first attempt to do this in his "Commentary on Certain Texts Which Deal with Antichrist" (1640) attempted to argue that the texts relating to Antichrist had had their fulfillment in the 1st century AD. Protestants did not welcome such views but Grotius remained undeterred and in his next work, "Commentaries On The New Testament" (1641–50), he expanded his preterist views to include the Olivet discourse and the Book of Revelation.

Preterism continued to struggle to gain credibility within other Protestant communities, especially in England. The English commentator Thomas Hayne claimed in 1645 that the prophecies of the Book of Daniel had all been fulfilled by the 1st century, and Joseph Hall expressed the same conclusion concerning Daniel's prophecies in 1650, but neither of them applied a preterist approach to Revelation. However, the exposition of Grotius convinced the Englishman Henry Hammond (1605-1660). Hammond sympathized with Grotius' desire for unity among Christians, and found his preterist exposition useful to this end. Hammond wrote his own preterist exposition in 1653, borrowing extensively from Grotius. In his introduction to Revelation he claimed that others had independently arrived at similar conclusions as himself, though giving pride of place to Grotius. Hammond was Grotius' only notable Protestant convert, and despite his reputation and influence, Protestants overwhelmingly rejected Grotius' interpretation of Revelation, which gained no ground for at least 100 years.

By the end of the 18th century preterist exposition had gradually become more widespread. In 1730 the Protestant and Arian, Frenchman Firmin Abauzit wrote the first full preterist exposition, "Essai sur l'Apocalypse". Abauzit worked in the then independent Republic of Geneva as a librarian. This was part of a growing development of more systematic preterist expositions of Revelation. Later, though, it appears that Abauzit recanted this approach after a critical examination by his English translator, Leonard Twells.

The earliest American full-preterist work, The Second Advent of the Lord Jesus Christ: A Past Event, was written in 1845 by Robert Townley. Townley later recanted this view.]
Thank you for doing all that good homework.
 
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Zao is life

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Continue to regale us with your Jesuit futurism and blasphemous claim that Christ is antichrist.

You're still afraid to do the grammar in Daniel 9:27.
Copy @Truth7t7 I get so tired of (all your and everyone's) boxes with labels. I understand when I read Daniel 9:24-27 that it's chronological and already completed. But I also understand when I read the Revelation that Nero was not the beast of the Revelation, but a type of the beast, and Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the abomination he placed in the Tabernacle of God is the type of the man of sin mentioned by Daniel, who is also the second of two men called "son of perdition" in the N.T (the first one being Judas Iscariot) - and he has not come yet.

The resurrection from the dead has not come yet either.
The two witnesses have not risen from the dead yet either - therefore the beast by whose hand they are martyred has not ascended from the bottomless pit yet either.
The return of Christ has not come yet either.

But according to the definition of Partial Preterism, I don't fit into their box with a label. But neither do I fit into the Preterist box with a label. And since I do not believe Israel consists of anyone who does not even believe in Jesus, who is the Son of God, neither do I fit into the Dispensational box with a label. Nor do I fit into the Amillennial box with a label because I do not believe the thousand years commences before the return of Christ, and I do not believe that Satan was bound at Calvary.

Neither do I fit into the Premillennial box with a label because I do not believe that the NHNE follows the thousand years, but the thousand years is the same as Adam when he was still permitted to eat of the fruit of the tree of life and before God allowed Satan to test mankind. The first time it resulted in death, and there will be no 2nd sacrifice for sins and no 2nd resurrection from the 2nd death.

Boxes with labels don't work for me. I wish all Christians would throw all of them into the trash and just go back to discussing with one another how they understand various portions of biblical scripture, and why - because boxes with labels are just convenient "heresy" labels to slap on one another so as to subtly accuse one another of heresy.

In fact I'm almost convinced our Lord has no time for all this theology in the churches and boxes with labels creating volumes of literature that lead away from a knowledge of Jesus, and hence of God, and used by saints to (figuratively) condemn one another's beliefs in the false belief that "whoever disagrees with me fits into this category, therefore his mind is bound in (one or another) dungeon with a label, and whatever he says must be false."
 
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Truth7t7

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I understand when I read Daniel 9:24-27 that it's chronological and already completed.
I Strongly Disagree

Daniel 9:27, it clearly states the bad guy is present on earth to the "Consummation" or "The Ultimate End" you act as if the truth presented is non-existant, as you cling to preterist reformed eschatology in fulfillment

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2:
the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations
he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

Truth7t7

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Continue to regale us with your Jesuit futurism and blasphemous claim that Christ is antichrist.

You're still afraid to do the grammar in Daniel 9:27.
Sorry Pal, Jesus Isn't The "HE" In Daniel 9:27 Making Abomination

Daniel 9:27, it clearly states the bad guy is present on earth to the "Consummation" or "The Ultimate End" you act as if the truth presented is non-existant, as you cling to preterist reformed eschatology in fulfillment

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2:
the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And
he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations
he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

covenantee

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Copy @Truth7t7 I get so tired of (all your and everyone's) boxes with labels. I understand when I read Daniel 9:24-27 that it's chronological and already completed. But I also understand when I read the Revelation that Nero was not the beast of the Revelation, but a type of the beast, and Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the abomination he placed in the Tabernacle of God is the type of the man of sin mentioned by Daniel, who is also the second of two men called "son of perdition" in the N.T (the first one being Judas Iscariot) - and he has not come yet.

The resurrection from the dead has not come yet either.
The two witnesses have not risen from the dead yet either - therefore the beast by whose hand they are martyred has not ascended from the bottomless pit yet either.
The return of Christ has not come yet either.

But according to the definition of Partial Preterism, I don't fit into their box with a label. But neither do I fit into the Preterist box with a label. And since I do not believe Israel consists of anyone who does not even believe in Jesus, who is the Son of God, neither do I fit into the Dispensational box with a label. Nor do I fit into the Amillennial box with a label because I do not believe the thousand years commences before the return of Christ, and I do not believe that Satan was bound at Calvary.

Neither do I fit into the Premillennial box with a label because I do not believe that the NHNE follows the thousand years, but the thousand years is the same as Adam when he was still permitted to eat of the fruit of the tree of life and before God allowed Satan to test mankind. The first time it resulted in death, and there will be no 2nd sacrifice for sins and no 2nd resurrection from the 2nd death.

Boxes with labels don't work for me. I wish all Christians would throw all of them into the trash and just go back to discussing with one another how they understand various portions of biblical scripture, and why - because boxes with labels are just convenient "heresy" labels to slap on one another so as to subtly accuse one another of heresy.

In fact I'm almost convinced our Lord has no time for all this theology in the churches and boxes with labels creating volumes of literature that lead away from a knowledge of Jesus, and hence of God, and used by saints to (figuratively) condemn one another's beliefs in the false belief that "whoever disagrees with me fits into this category, therefore his mind is bound in (one or another) dungeon with a label, and whatever he says must be false."
There would be far fewer issues if those who used the labels understood their histories and meanings. I'm an historicist, not a preterist.
Error70x70 is well aware of this, but persists with his incessant deliberate obdurate misrepresentations. Historicism does not subscribe to the preterists view of the identity of antichrist, whom they typically consider to be Nero. Rather, historicism represents the Reformation recognition of antichrists as described in 1 John 2:18, with the apostate Roman papacy being the singular prevailing manifestation of antichrists in that era, against whom the Reformers were called by God into spiritual battle, and by Whose grace and mercy they were successful. We today are the spiritual beneficiaries of that success.

Of the two, preterism and futurism, the latter is by far the most antichristian, antiscriptural, pernicious and egregious, as seen in the fabrication of "The Antichrist" of Jesuit futurist Francisco Ribera applied in a variety of irrelevant Scriptural settings, and in the astounding blasphemy which declares Christ to be "The Antichrist" in Daniel 9:27. This blasphemy is unequivocally repudiated by the witness and testimony of the entirety of the post-apostolic true Christian Church, over more than 17 centuries from the ECF's to the Reformers.

The incessant deliberate obdurate misrepresentations of Error70x70 should have resulted in his eviction from this forum long ago. Keep this in mind in any exchanges that you have with him.
 
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covenantee

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Sorry Pal, Jesus Isn't The "HE" In Daniel 9:27 Making Abomination

Daniel 9:27, it clearly states the bad guy is present on earth to the "Consummation" or "The Ultimate End" you act as if the truth presented is non-existant, as you cling to preterist reformed eschatology in fulfillment

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2:
the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And
he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations
he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Still suffering from hallucinatory psychosis, I see.

You're still afraid to do the grammar in Daniel 9:27. The blasphemy continues.

Debunked again.
 

Truth7t7

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I'm an historicist, not a preterist.
Historicism is Preterist in its teaching and belief, your teachings and belief are "Preterist"

It falsely teaches preterism in that Matthew 24:15 (Daniel's AOD) and Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation) has been "Fulfilled"

If you don't believe the above mentioned events are fulfilled, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Jesus Is The Lord
 

covenantee

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Historicism is Preterist in its teaching and belief, your teachings and belief are "Preterist"

It falsely teaches preterism in that Matthew 24:15 (Daniel's AOD) and Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation) has been "Fulfilled"

If you don't believe the above mentioned events are fulfilled, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Jesus Is The Lord
You've just confirmed the misrepresentations which I've described.

But you're intent upon being a dispensationalized futurized apostasized Jesuit.

Congratulations.

You've certainly distinguished yourself.
 

Truth7t7

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You've just confirmed the misrepresentations which I've described.

But you're intent upon being a dispensationalized futurized apostasized Jesuit.

Congratulations.

You've certainly distinguished yourself.
I don't believe in a future pre-trib rapture or millennial kingdom on this earth, I believe and teach the church is the Israel of God

I don't believe I would make a very good follower of Darbys dispensationalism, big smiles
 

covenantee

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I don't believe in a future pre-trib rapture or millennial kingdom on this earth, I believe and teach the church is the Israel of God

I don't believe I would make a very good follower of Darbys dispensationalism, big smiles
Darby would welcome you with open arms.

And big smiles.
 
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Zao is life

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I Strongly Disagree

Daniel 9:27, it clearly states the bad guy is present on earth to the "Consummation" or "The Ultimate End" .
That's where your mistake begins. Consummation does not mean the ultimate end of our Age. It means the ultimate end of anything.

The consummation Daniel was talking about came in 70 A.D.

It's noticeable that whenever it suits your interpretation of any passage of scripture, you interpret words to mean what you decide they have to mean - not according to what they actually do mean.
 
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Zao is life

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There would be far fewer issues if those who used the labels understood their histories and meanings. I'm an historicist, not a preterist.
Error70x70 is well aware of this, but persists with his incessant deliberate obdurate misrepresentations. Historicism does not subscribe to the preterists view of the identity of antichrist, whom they typically consider to be Nero. Rather, historicism represents the Reformation recognition of antichrists as described in 1 John 2:18, with the apostate Roman papacy being the singular prevailing manifestation of antichrists in that era, against whom the Reformers were called by God into spiritual battle, and by Whose grace and mercy they were successful. We today are the spiritual beneficiaries of that success.

Of the two, preterism and futurism, the latter is by far the most antichristian, antiscriptural, pernicious and egregious, as seen in the fabrication of "The Antichrist" of Jesuit futurist Francisco Ribera applied in a variety of irrelevant Scriptural settings, and in the astounding blasphemy which declares Christ to be "The Antichrist" in Daniel 9:27. This blasphemy is unequivocally repudiated by the witness and testimony of the entirety of the post-apostolic true Christian Church, over more than 17 centuries from the ECF's to the Reformers.

The incessant deliberate obdurate misrepresentations of Error70x70 should have resulted in his eviction from this forum long ago. Keep this in mind in any exchanges that you have with him.
I just see him as someone who is convinced with what he believes and is a little excitable. I actually like him. Just so you know, he is neither a Preterist nor a Futurist, and I know his views on Daniel 9:27. It's more way out than you think. He has a very unique belief regarding the the timing of the AoD of Matthew 24;15 and has linked this to Daniel 9:27.
 
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Truth7t7

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That's where your mistake begins. Consummation does not mean the ultimate end of our Age. It means the ultimate end of anything.

The consummation Daniel was talking about came in 70 A.D.

It's noticeable that whenever it suits your interpretation of any passage of scripture, you interpret words to mean what you decide they have to mean - not according to what they actually do mean.
No the "consummation" didn't take place in your reformed preterist 70AD, it's future and is seen in 2 Peter 3:10-12 (The End) in the Lord's fire in final judgment "Dissolved"
 

Truth7t7

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He's correct in that he says the man of sin will seat himself in the church.

You're parroting the standard claims of Dispensational Futirism regarding the temple of the man of sin.
The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
 

covenantee

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I just see him as someone who is convinced with what he believes and is a little excitable. I actually like him. Just so you know, he is neither a Preterist nor a Futurist, and I know his views on Daniel 9:27. It's more way out than you think. He has a very unique belief regarding the the timing of the AoD of Matthew 24;15 and has linked this to Daniel 9:27.
He can most accurately be described as a "partial futurist", which is an improvement over a "full futurist", but he refuses to recognize the incongruity of his views. The original definitions of preterism and futurism revolved exclusively around the Jesuit's counter-reformation commentaries on Revelation, and their efforts to attempt to identify antichrist therein as other than the apostasized papacy. There is no mention of Daniel or Matthew in the Wikipedia descriptions of these commentaries by Alcazar and Ribera. I've explained how historicism differs from preterism, but he refuses to understand. I've also repeatedly challenged him to use grammar to ascertain the identify of "he" in Daniel 9:27, but he refuses, for the obvious reason that it would further expose his incongruities. So he persists in perpetuating the dispensational blasphemy which malinterprets "he" as "The Antichrist". I and others have also repeatedly identified his incongruities in Matthew 24, but he remains intransigent.

So "incorrigible" seems particularly applicable to Bro. Error70x70.
 

Zao is life

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No the "consummation" didn't take place in your reformed preterist 70AD, it's future and is seen in 2 Peter 3:10-12 (The End) in the Lord's fire in final judgment "Dissolved"
One of the things that are gonna be dissolved in that day is your false notion regarding a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:27 and the consummation :Broadly:
 

Zao is life

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The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Right, and he will open his mouth in blasphemy against God to blaspheme His name, His Tabernacle, and those dwelling in heaven - just like the man of sin when he sits in the Tabernacle of God and claims God-status.

And just like the man of sin's appearance is in accordance with the working of Satan with all kinds of lying wonders, so the false prophet will produce miracles and lying wonders to deceive people into worshiping the beast and his image.

And just like the man of sin is destroyed by Christ in the brightness of His coming and the breath of His mouth, so the beast is destroyed by Christ.
 
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Zao is life

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He can most accurately be described as a "partial futurist", which is an improvement over a "full futurist", but he refuses to recognize the incongruity of his views. The original definitions of preterism and futurism revolved exclusively around the Jesuit's counter-reformation commentaries on Revelation, and their efforts to attempt to identify antichrist therein as other than the apostasized papacy. There is no mention of Daniel or Matthew in the Wikipedia descriptions of these commentaries by Alcazar and Ribera. I've explained how historicism differs from preterism, but he refuses to understand. I've also repeatedly challenged him to use grammar to ascertain the identify of "he" in Daniel 9:27, but he refuses, for the obvious reason that it would further expose his incongruities. So he persists in perpetuating the dispensational blasphemy which malinterprets "he" as "The Antichrist". I and others have also repeatedly identified his incongruities in Matthew 24, but he remains intransigent.

So "incorrigible" seems particularly applicable to Bro. Error70x70.
The word "incorrigible" applies to every eschatological / theological position which is incapable of change when scripture points out the inconsistencies of a position - the word refers to almost everyone on this board and all other Christian boards too.

The word "incorrgiible" applies to everyone who resides in a box with a label.
 

Truth7t7

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Right, and he will open his mouth in blasphemy against God to blaspheme His name, His Tabernacle, and those dwelling in heaven - just like the man of sin when he sits in the Tabernacle of God and claims God-status.

And just like the man of sin's appearance is in accordance with the working of Satan with all kinds of lying wonders, so the false prophet will produce miracles and lying wonders to deceive people into worshiping the beast and his image.

And just like the man of sin is destroyed by Christ in the brightness of His coming and the breath of His mouth, so the beast is destroyed by Christ.
Sorry Pal, you secretly run about the magic curtain of Oz walking on rice paper, hiding your reformed interpretation on the "man of sin"

No (The Beast) seen below isn't a "Spirit" as you suggest, but will be a future literal individual human man as scripture clearly teaches

The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Turn the light on in the room, get off that reformed rice paper

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.