Dead in Sin !

[ChristisGod]

Thank You.
I think we are walking side by side except we see the road differently.
And that's ok.. Jesus chooses the paths and we walk where He leads.
At the end of the journey.. All roads lead to HIM!

HUGS

Ziggy here is a reliable source on the issue read this and ask Jesus for wisdom and guidance apart from CL or my influence.

Question: "Is sinless perfection possible in this life?"

Answer: Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.

The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfect should be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”

As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.

It is true that the Bible calls us to be “perfect as [our] heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48). The Greek word for “perfect” here is telios. It means “brought to its end, completed, or perfect.” So, to be “perfect” in this sense is not how perfectionists so often imagine it. Rather, it is to be completed in Christ. Philippians 1:6 says that completion is the work of God. He created us, saved us, and is faithful to perfect us.

This is not to say that we have no responsibility to grow in our faith (2 Peter 3:18). We must cooperate with God’s work in us (His perfection of us)—see Philippians 2:12. We are called to live godly lives and to submit to God. But the focus of the Bible’s commands is not on others’ perception of us, as is so often the idol of the perfectionist. Instead, the focus is on our heart’s posture toward God. got questions

hope this helps !!!

 

[Ziggy]

I REFUSE TO BE A PING PONG BALL..

GO PADDLE SOMEWHERE ELSE

THANK YOU!

MUCH LOVE
HUGS

 

[ChristisGod]

I REFUSE TO BE A PING PONG BALL..

GO PADDLE SOMEWHERE ELSE

THANK YOU!

MUCH LOVE
HUGS

I know what you mean I was once a competitive table tennis champion( ping pong is for novices ) in the SF Bay Area and played tournaments all the time.

 

[brightfame52]

Being dead in sin is a spiritual issue, man hasn't Spiritual life. Man has naturally physical life and vitality Man can hear see and do other things physically, think and reason and so forth, however he can't do things in the realm of the Spirit and Spiritual
That is because naturally dead in trespasses and sins.

 

[Ziggy]

Being dead in sin is a spiritual issue, man hasn't Spiritual life. Man has naturally physical life and vitality Man can hear see and do other things physically, think and reason and so forth, however he can't do things in the realm of the Spirit and Spiritual
That is because naturally dead in trespasses and sins.

Paul says that while we are in this earthy tabernacle, which is the flesh, always at war with the spiritual.. that we should overcome such desires to walk according to the flesh.
The Bible tells us exactly what sin IS..

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

That law is God's Law. And God gave man His laws long before he gave them to Moses.
Abraham kept God's laws.
I believe Adam and Eve had them as well. And with one bite they broke them all.
God gave Moses a set of Laws He wrote with His own finger. When Moses came down from the mountain, he was mad because the children that were just "saved" from Egypt, had already started corrupting everything God taught them in the wilderness.
They made themselves an idol, like Egypt had. They were eating and drinking and ....whatever..
So when Moses saw them he bacame angry and Broke the first set of commandments God had written by the Spirit.
That is, with His own finger.
He told Moses to come back up the mountain and then told Moses to take 2 stones and rewrite the commandments
These Commandments were made of stone for stony hearts. They would not be able to hear or understand the
Spiritual Law until Jesus would come and God would remove the stony heart and give us one of flesh.
He would also pour on us His Holy Spirit. So not only would we be able to hear and understand them,
but by the Grace of God and the Faith of his son, we too could keep the Spirit of the Law.

Those laws are in the hearts and minds of every born again believer that does not walk after the desires or lusts of the flesh.
There will always be temptations. Always something pulling you to try to get you to do something that goes against that spiritual law.
And as long as we are residing in this world, we can be confident that the Lord will always help us overcome.
Sometimes things take lots of prayers and fastings, sometimes the desires just disappear.
The Lord knows what each of us is able to handle and where we are weak.
And he has given us His Spirit the same one as Jesus who was able to overcome all sin while he was on earth.
We just need to Follow the Lord and His Spirit in us and we will be walking in Him on His paths.

Thank You brightfame52!
HUGS

 

[brightfame52]

Paul says that while we are in this earthy tabernacle, which is the flesh, always at war with the spiritual.. that we should overcome such desires to walk according to the flesh.
The Bible tells us exactly what sin IS..

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

That law is God's Law. And God gave man His laws long before he gave them to Moses.
Abraham kept God's laws.
I believe Adam and Eve had them as well. And with one bite they broke them all.
God gave Moses a set of Laws He wrote with His own finger. When Moses came down from the mountain, he was mad because the children that were just "saved" from Egypt, had already started corrupting everything God taught them in the wilderness.
They made themselves an idol, like Egypt had. They were eating and drinking and ....whatever..
So when Moses saw them he bacame angry and Broke the first set of commandments God had written by the Spirit.
That is, with His own finger.
He told Moses to come back up the mountain and then told Moses to take 2 stones and rewrite the commandments
These Commandments were made of stone for stony hearts. They would not be able to hear or understand the
Spiritual Law until Jesus would come and God would remove the stony heart and give us one of flesh.
He would also pour on us His Holy Spirit. So not only would we be able to hear and understand them,
but by the Grace of God and the Faith of his son, we too could keep the Spirit of the Law.

Those laws are in the hearts and minds of every born again believer that does not walk after the desires or lusts of the flesh.
There will always be temptations. Always something pulling you to try to get you to do something that goes against that spiritual law.
And as long as we are residing in this world, we can be confident that the Lord will always help us overcome.
Sometimes things take lots of prayers and fastings, sometimes the desires just disappear.
The Lord knows what each of us is able to handle and where we are weak.
And he has given us His Spirit the same one as Jesus who was able to overcome all sin while he was on earth.
We just need to Follow the Lord and His Spirit in us and we will be walking in Him on His paths.

Thank You brightfame52!
HUGS

I see no relation this post has in regards to the issue. But thanks anyway

 

[farouk]

"No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it."

@Nancy Good verse there!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Satan sometimes wins a battle and kills good people, but Christ wins the war.

 

[Enoch111]

A person before they can come to God aright, in faith and repentance, they must first be spiritually raised from the dead !

This is essentially what the Calvinists teach (falsely). That a person is regenerated BEFORE he or she is saved. Since it is only in regeneration that one is spiritually raised from the dead. But how can one be saved BEFORE he is saved? That is a total absurdity.

Here is the Bible truth (which can be fully supported by Scripture).

1. All human beings are spiritually dead when they are born. That is because of Adam.

2. All human beings need to be "born again" (regenerated) in order to enter and to see the Kingdom of God.

3. The Gospel itself -- the Word of God -- is the "incorruptible seed" of the New Birth.

4. The Gospel can be understood by those who are spiritually dead. That is why the Gospel is called "the POWER OF GOD unto salvation" (Rom 1:16).

5. Those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This corresponds to the "baptism with the Spirit".

6. It is the Holy Spirit who "quickens" or makes alive the dead spirit of the sinner by effecting the New Birth. This is called "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost".

TITUS 3: SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is essentially what the Calvinists teach (falsely). That a person is regenerated BEFORE he or she is saved. Since it is only in regeneration that one is spiritually raised from the dead. But how can one be saved BEFORE he is saved? That is a total absurdity.

Here is the Bible truth (which can be fully supported by Scripture).

1. All human beings are spiritually dead when they are born. That is because of Adam.

2. All human beings need to be "born again" (regenerated) in order to enter and to see the Kingdom of God.

3. The Gospel itself -- the Word of God -- is the "incorruptible seed" of the New Birth.

4. The Gospel can be understood by those who are spiritually dead. That is why the Gospel is called "the POWER OF GOD unto salvation" (Rom 1:16).

5. Those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This corresponds to the "baptism with the Spirit".

6. It is the Holy Spirit who "quickens" or makes alive the dead spirit of the sinner by effecting the New Birth. This is called "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost".

TITUS 3: SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Well said, Enoch!

 

[brightfame52]

This is essentially what the Calvinists teach (falsely). That a person is regenerated BEFORE he or she is saved. Since it is only in regeneration that one is spiritually raised from the dead. But how can one be saved BEFORE he is saved? That is a total absurdity.

Here is the Bible truth (which can be fully supported by Scripture).

1. All human beings are spiritually dead when they are born. That is because of Adam.

2. All human beings need to be "born again" (regenerated) in order to enter and to see the Kingdom of God.

3. The Gospel itself -- the Word of God -- is the "incorruptible seed" of the New Birth.

4. The Gospel can be understood by those who are spiritually dead. That is why the Gospel is called "the POWER OF GOD unto salvation" (Rom 1:16).

5. Those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This corresponds to the "baptism with the Spirit".

6. It is the Holy Spirit who "quickens" or makes alive the dead spirit of the sinner by effecting the New Birth. This is called "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost".

TITUS 3: SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

It's a biblical teaching that man is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5 so why scoff the truth into a name of a man?

 

[Enoch111]

It's a biblical teaching that man is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5 so why scoff the truth into a name of a man?

Did you notice that I did NOT deny the truth? Please read my post carefully and confirm that it conforms to Gospel truth. All are spiritually dead until they are born again. But they are not born again until and unless they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Did you notice that I did NOT deny the truth? Please read my post carefully and confirm that it conforms to Gospel truth. All are spiritually dead until they are born again. But they are not born again until and unless they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Duh how can a Spiritually dead person perform spiritual action like repentance and believing in Christ?

 

[Enoch111]

Duh how can a Spiritually dead person perform spiritual action like repentance and believing in Christ?

Jesus said that they could and they would. See Mark 16:15,16.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's a biblical teaching that man is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5 so why scoff the truth into a name of a man?

What Calvinists don't understand is how someone who is spiritually dead can on their own repent and come to Christ. They can't. That is why the Father draws them to understand that they are helpless. That is what the Ten Commandments were for - to show us our sin, and the power of our sinful flesh that opposes the commandments. Once that is acknowledged through being honest with ourselves, that is when we CAN repent. No one can come to Jesus unless the Father who sent Him draws him. John 6:44.

This is where the next error in Calvinism comes in - believing that the Father doesn't draw everyone, only the elect. But it is not the will of the Father that ANY should perish, but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth. That elitism of Calvinism stops them from witnessing. But that is in direct opposition to Christ's command for all of us, not just the apostles. Mark 16:15 "And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." It is NOT God who makes some not believe. God has done everything possible that none should perish.

The next error in Calvinism is their belief that we do not have free will to choose. That would mean that God is fighting His own will that none should perish, by hardening some of those Jesus died for to not accept Him.

That brings us to the next error in Calvinism. The belief that Jesus didn't die for the whole world, but only for the elect.

Don't you see that it starts with one error, and the next error mutates from the first, and so on. That is like a plane that takes off a little off center and by the time they land, they are in the ocean.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ziggy here is a reliable source on the issue read this and ask Jesus for wisdom and guidance apart from CL or my influence.

Question: "Is sinless perfection possible in this life?"

Answer: Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.

The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfect should be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”

As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.

It is true that the Bible calls us to be “perfect as [our] heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48). The Greek word for “perfect” here is telios. It means “brought to its end, completed, or perfect.” So, to be “perfect” in this sense is not how perfectionists so often imagine it. Rather, it is to be completed in Christ. Philippians 1:6 says that completion is the work of God. He created us, saved us, and is faithful to perfect us.

This is not to say that we have no responsibility to grow in our faith (2 Peter 3:18). We must cooperate with God’s work in us (His perfection of us)—see Philippians 2:12. We are called to live godly lives and to submit to God. But the focus of the Bible’s commands is not on others’ perception of us, as is so often the idol of the perfectionist. Instead, the focus is on our heart’s posture toward God. got questions

hope this helps !!!

What this post has not dealt with are the primary verses that speak of the doctrine of entire sanctification...

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

and 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, and Colossians 2:11 (nlt).

Duh how can a Spiritually dead person perform spiritual action like repentance and believing in Christ?

I believe that it is in Psalms 119 that the Psalmist asks the Lord to quicken him.

Is the Psalmist spiritually dead or alive?

If dead, then how does he ask the Lord to quicken him?

If alive, then why does he ask the Lord to do what He has already done?

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus said that they could and they would. See Mark 16:15,16.

No Jesus did not say they could. You are making things up from your imagination.

 

[brightfame52]

What this post has not dealt with are the primary verses that speak of the doctrine of entire sanctification...

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

and 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, and Colossians 2:11 (nlt).



I believe that it is in Psalms 119 that the Psalmist asks the Lord to quicken him.

Is the Psalmist spiritually dead or alive?

If dead, then how does he ask the Lord to quicken him?

If alive, then why does he ask the Lord to do what He has already done?

The psalmist had to be Spiritually alive to pray a spiritual prayer, now I'm not going to repeat that okay. A Spiritually dead person cannot pray a spiritual prayer.

 

[brightfame52]

What Calvinists don't understand is how someone who is spiritually dead can on their own repent and come to Christ. They can't. That is why the Father draws them to understand that they are helpless. That is what the Ten Commandments were for - to show us our sin, and the power of our sinful flesh that opposes the commandments. Once that is acknowledged through being honest with ourselves, that is when we CAN repent. No one can come to Jesus unless the Father who sent Him draws him. John 6:44.

This is where the next error in Calvinism comes in - believing that the Father doesn't draw everyone, only the elect. But it is not the will of the Father that ANY should perish, but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth. That elitism of Calvinism stops them from witnessing. But that is in direct opposition to Christ's command for all of us, not just the apostles. Mark 16:15 "And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." It is NOT God who makes some not believe. God has done everything possible that none should perish.

The next error in Calvinism is their belief that we do not have free will to choose. That would mean that God is fighting His own will that none should perish, by hardening some of those Jesus died for to not accept Him.

That brings us to the next error in Calvinism. The belief that Jesus didn't die for the whole world, but only for the elect.

Don't you see that it starts with one error, and the next error mutates from the first, and so on. That is like a plane that takes off a little off center and by the time they land, they are in the ocean.

A person who is being drawn by the father is not spiritually dead but alive. The drawing is proof of that.

 

[Ziggy]

Jesus told the aduterous woman..
go and sin no more.
repent.
John cried out REPENT
and many were baptised.
none of these was spiritual before repenting.

hugs