Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are REALLY Leaving You

[Angelina]

Great read!... ^_^

Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are REALLY Leaving You
By John Pavlovitz ~ Church Leaders

You think it’s because “the culture” is so lost, so perverse, so beyond help that they are all walking away.
You believe that they’ve turned a deaf ear to the voice of God; chasing money, and sex, and material things.
You think that the gays and the Muslims and the Atheists and the pop stars have so screwed up the morality of the world that everyone is abandoning faith in droves.

But those aren’t the reasons people are leaving you.

http://www.churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/244545-dear-church-heres-people-really-leaving.html

 

[aspen]

Hmm...I have a different theory. I think people are leaving church because Protestants/Evangelicals teach their people that church is not important/fallible/should be constantly questioned and tested against the Bible. The over emphasis on this idea has encouraged people to bypass the middleman (church) and go to the source (Bible). Church is viewed as having no purpose outside Catholicism-sorry. Stripping the altars has consequences.

 

[pom2014]

I think its because they serve rotten fruit.

No one wants rotten fruit. Not even fallen people.

 

[Wormwood]

Pom, church leaders are people Jesus loves, too. Don't forget that.

I'd enjoy articles like this much more if they gave any meaningful suggestions. It seems everyone has a list of reasons as to why church is so terrible and pastors are so disconnected. What I don't see are lists of practical, helpful ways churches can be more effective. I guess its easier to criticize and tear down than encourage and build up.

 

[pom2014]

Wormwood, there is only one thing they need to do. Stop placing themselves on the throne and keep the King there.

There's nothing to tweak. No encouragement or build up. Obey The King. It's what all Christians must do.

We're at war. We are commanded by our liege, we follow those commands.
Wormwood, there is only one thing they need to do. Stop placing themselves on the throne and keep the King there.

There's nothing to tweak. No encouragement or build up. Obey The King. It's what all Christians must do.

We're at war. We are commanded by our liege, we follow those commands.

 

[Wormwood]

I never suggested that we should put ourselves on the throne. Our war is not against flesh and blood and church leaders need love and forgiveness like anyone else. I think you are wrong if you are suggesting people dont need encouragement and if they fail then they are the enemy or worthy of being treated poorly. We are even to "love our enemies" so how much more are we to love other Christians who may stumble and err from time to time.

 

[Ruth]

Great read!... ^_^Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are REALLY Leaving You
By John Pavlovitz ~ Church Leaders
You think it’s because “the culture” is so lost, so perverse, so beyond help that they are all walking away.
You believe that they’ve turned a deaf ear to the voice of God; chasing money, and sex, and material things.
You think that the gays and the Muslims and the Atheists and the pop stars have so screwed up the morality of the world that everyone is abandoning faith in droves.
But those aren’t the reasons people are leaving you.
http://www.churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/244545-dear-church-heres-people-really-leaving.html

Agreed thank you for posting, it is why I left my church and found one that focused on Jesus and loving the unloved, it does not spend money on modern hype trying to sell Jesus or on how cool and comtempory christians can be like the world.

 

[Angelina]

Hey...I didn't mean to offend anyone with this article brothers... :huh: but I can identify with the points the writer had made as a member of my own denomination and in a leadership role.

1. Sunday Service: New believers tend to enjoy the lights and sounds of Sunday service initially but as the writer points out, this can wear a little thin especially when you've been down the road a bit and you need something more meaningful to help combat the daily battles some folk may be facing. That's where home/house groups can help. Sunday service is not really the place for meaningful conversation and personal relationship building.

2. Church Lingo: This is true...for new believers who have come out of the world and enter another culture/society. Being saved is a lifechanging moment in ones life... entering in to an English speaking church can be a little daunting when the language is geared toward regular believers who understand the culture and lingo. His point is to Keep it simple and clear for the newbies amongst the regular attenders.

3. The Vision ~ Building: Having a modern up to date building suited for various uses is fine but having a mission beyond the walls of the church is what being a christian is all about...reaching the lost and ministering to the needy. Partnering with other ministries already working in the field is awesome and so is creating a missions vision for your church where everyone gets an opportunity to roll up their sleeves and help like having a food Bank or a second hand clothing station or helping people out with fitting their kids for school - that kinda stuff.

4. The Battlefield: I've not encountered this one in any Church environment I have attended so perhaps this may be an individual or small group lobby thing. Unsure. What we do tend to get is a call to pray for various situations happening around the world. This may not be what the writer is referring to...

5. Love: Now that's a tricky one which each church body needs to mull over for themselves.

"So yes, Church, even if you’re right, even if we’re totally wrong; even if we’re all petty, and self-centered, and hypocritical, and critical, and (I’ll say it) “sinful,” we’re still the ones searching for a place where we can be known and belong; a place where it feels like God lives, and you’re the ones who can show it to us.

Even if the problem is me, it’s me who you’re supposed to be reaching, Church.

So, for the love of God; reach already."

Love it! Blessings!!!

 

[Wormwood]

Angelina,

I hope I didn't come across as though I were upset with you. I just think that articles like this surface almost daily anymore. I don't mind a healthy critique of the church. I think we are all comfortable to say that the Church has issues. I think the problem I have with articles like this is that they have nothing constructive to say. Imagine if someone came into your job and posted a listing of 10 ways you fail as an employee. Sometimes employees need to be shown what they are doing wrong. My point is, almost all of these articles that critique the church I have read have no meaningful insights or suggestions. As an employee at your job, you probably would not mind being shown what you are doing wrong as long as they show you how to do it right. But simply to point out faults is not overly helpful.

What you wrote is much nicer than this author. I mean, look at this list! You are the problem. Your Sunday service is worn thin. Your love doesn't look like love. You choose lousy battles. First, every church reader who reads this immediately is told that they are miserable failures for God. Has this guy been to the church of the person reading this? Probably not. Yet the way it is written is says, "Hey you, church leader, no one likes what you are doing on Sunday." I just don't think Jesus would make such blanket insults to people in his body...many of which put their heart and soul into what they do (even if some aren't as gifted as others). So, I am not saying that some of these critiques are not accurate. I am saying that these critiques are not universal (which is implied by the article) and that there is no real encouragement or advice.

Beyond the tone of the article, I think the author is wrong on a lot of issues. For instance, "Sunday morning isn't making a difference..." I think the problem many have with the church today is that they have unrealistic expectations. People want community, someone to be there all the time, depth, insight, growth, etc. However, most people work 40-50 hours a week, have kids activities for another 10 hours a week, and usually like to do something recreational from time to time on the weekend. And, they want the local church to meet ALL their spiritual needs. So, when is the church supposed to squeeze all this depth, insight, community, fellowship, etc., into the lives of people who are usually doing good to spare an hour on Sunday and an hour on Wednesday. The fact is, the Sunday gathering isn't SUPPOSED to be the be-all and end-all of someone's spiritual life. It is a time of encouragement, worship, teaching and communion that is to help people focus on the Lord the remainder of the week. It's just a short gathering for a specific purpose...and that purpose is to focus on God...not be people's "space, breath, conversation, and relationship." Pretty much every large church I know has small groups for such purposes. If the Sunday service is nothing more than a "rock show" for this author, than maybe the problem is in their heart, not the leadership of the church. Nobody can inject worship into another. Of course, if the church doesn't put on a "rock show" then the next article will be that the church is too old fashioned, disconnected and uninterested in the music and communication of contemporary culture. Sigh. I visited a church of 23,000 that had a 53 million dollar building that everyone and their dog loves to criticize. However, Thom Rainer did research on this church and found that they spent about half per square foot of their building per person attending than most of the churches of 50-100 that were criticizing their extravagance. Moreover, most churches I have heard of give a minimum of 10% of everything they receive to various missions, not to mention the various ministries in the church that work in the community. The reality is that we live in a culture that determines the value and importance of a message by the professional or unprofessional means by which it is presented. No one is going to see black and white movies, no matter how good the acting or plots may be. Many churches understand that in order to communicate with this media and musically inclined culture in a large group setting, it takes a lot of planning and professionalism. So most people that criticize churches for the inability to "see past their building" are usually very ignorant about the real issues.

Anyway, I know you didn't mean this article in a negative way but as something constructive to learn from. Please know I am not directing these comments at you, but articles like these. Because, when I read these, I don't see much constructive conversation going on. Most just contain negative criticisms that usually are not only very critical and all-encompassing in their attacks, but also not well thought out in their expectations. I think if these people spent as much time praying for and encouraging their church leaders as they did thinking up all their frustrations and writing articles about it, the church would be better off. Again, I am not saying the church and its leaders do not have their issues...that SHOULD be addressed, I am just saying that there is a more Christ-like approach than the ones these bloggers often take.

 

[Ruth]

I believe one of the problems with the church is they have become to sensitive, their feelings are hurt to easily, their feelings are not met by the church so the truth of scripture is not completelly told or taught by the leaders of the American churchs.

The blogger just told it as it is, and how she has experienced church.

When we read letters from the apostles to the church's they are straight forward and get to the point.

Can you imagine today if a pastor told someone to leave the church and hand them over to Satan for a time for they had sinned lustfully as apostle Paul did to the Corinthian church, or if a pastor told the women of the church to stop wearing all their bling to church, and come dressed modestly, as it teaches in 1 Peter

Many leaders of the church are more concerned with offending their congregation for fear they will lose monies and attendance.

We need true men of God in our church's who have a healthy fear of God and not a fear if they will be liked or not.

Amen to the blogger and thank you Angelina for sharing.

 

[Wormwood]

Ruth,

With all due respect:

1. This writer is not an Apostle.
2. The church in Corinth was dealing with horrific sexual immorality that they were bragging about. I don't think complaining that worship is too "polished" or that it doesn't meet the audience's felt needs for conversation, space, etc....and Christians bragging to each other about their sexual immorality and engaging in lawsuits with one another is even in the same ballpark.
3. How do you know that what is planned on Sunday is about being "liked"? The fact is, if people are not interested, they will not listen to the Word. There is a difference between amusing and engaging. I think pretty much every pastor would say they are not trying to amuse, but engage. Why is it okay to make assumptions about the motives of pastors and worship leaders? Would it be appropriate for me to make judgments about your motives in a worship service?

 

[Ruth]

Ruth,

With all due respect:

1. This writer is not an Apostle.
2. The church in Corinth was dealing with horrific sexual immorality that they were bragging about. I don't think complaining that worship is too "polished" or that it doesn't meet the audience's felt needs for conversation, space, etc....and Christians bragging to each other about their sexual immorality and engaging in lawsuits with one another is even in the same ballpark.
3. How do you know that what is planned on Sunday is about being "liked"? The fact is, if people are not interested, they will not listen to the Word. There is a difference between amusing and engaging. I think pretty much every pastor would say they are not trying to amuse, but engage. Why is it okay to make assumptions about the motives of pastors and worship leaders? Would it be appropriate for me to make judgments about your motives in a worship service?

You seem to want argue over claims I did not make so black and white as you seem to be interpreting my reply.

I am not making assumptions, I am stating a fact, any Christian that has been in the church scene long enough has witnessed what I confessed.

As far as judgment, yes it would be appropriate to make judgments on your brother and sisters in Christ, apostle Paul tells us to, the people we should not judge are the unbelievers. We are to discern false teachers, and test the fruits of other believers, and hold accountable those in WILFUL sin.

I do not think this women's blog needs such critizm, she is relating her experience and many others.

 

[justaname]

When church is a business these issues surface. When Church is the Body of Christ these issues dissolve. Too often the focus is on "doing" church as opposed to "being" the Church. Once we focus on Him and His will in our everyday lives as a unified Body, the numbers will not invoke any true meaning. It is Him who draws, we are to be the light. It seems the light is being sheltered when it needs to be brought to the mountain top and exposed for all to see.

 

[pom2014]

This is the problem with the church just as it was with the synagogues under the Levites. It's a business. The clerics are in a career not a calling.
Money is king, not Yeshua.

They do as THEY will and lay claim to righteousness in doing so. These and all whom blindly follow them will be the ones our King will say I don't know you.

What modern people must comprehend is that we are not citizens of an oligarchy nor a democracy. This is an absolute monarchy. He is King, sovereign, our liege. His commands carry life and death. He says do it and it must be done.

To refuse means we are rebels. Traitors, wolvesheads. The wolf is hunted down and it's head goes on a pike. Rebellion equals death in an absolute monarchy. And this one has no escape. No hiding places. You WILL be found and you WILL pay. Death awaits the traitor.

Only two commands did he give. Only two! And the churches and their clerics do not obey them. They are in rebellion. They are not with our King, they will perish if they continue.

Their call they have turned away from. The church is our home. Open to followers to worship, fellowship, find shelter and arm themselves. They are keeps in the battle against the enemies. Feeding us, providing livery and giving is direction to where the battle fields are.

Instead they are vain structures. Guarded, closed, not giving the good need unless you pay for it. They are treasuries of worldly things with men of the world that are ordained by other men and their traditions. Continuing the order of Levi. Not Melchizedek as it should be. They over fed, over dressed and provided for like barons and lords and in some cases like kings. Given all the world has to offer.

Their message is obedience to them is obedience to God. Middle level mangers. Resellers of Grace. They are charlatans and greedy merchants of the Word. Selling all manner of things. Merchants in the temple.

We cannot burn them out or slaughter them as.we are commanded to love. And we should not, not only because we are commanded but because we would not personally profit from any life taken.

Instead we need to leave them to their iniquities. Go and found find places for the correct way. Priests of the order of Melchizedek and follow the commands that our sovereign King left for us.

It's in scripture, plain for all to see.

So we must leave them all. And shake the dust from our feet of them.

They have rebelled against the King and embraced mammon.

 

[Wormwood]

This is why the average church leader doesn't last more than 3 years in ministry before getting burnt out. Believe me pom, if it was all about the money, ministers would do anything other than ministry. Most ministers I know earn wages that classify them as poverty level income earners. Although, if that is how you feel, its probably best for everyone that you stay at home on Sunday morning.

 

[kbrenton]

Hi,

It is my understanding that we, the congregation, not the structure, are the Church. We are told to gather together to build each other up, encourage each other rebuke each other when necessary and be in the word of God. Church was not meant to be somewhere you went for an hour on Sunday, Church is the means in which we live out the rest of the week on the commandments God gave us. The leaders of the Church should be the laymen of the Church and the word of God the basis of what is taught. No one person should be responsible for what an individual believes. It is the responsibility for each person to know God's word for themselves and share it with others. Not just sit and blindly listen to another for their truth. Jesus came to fulfill the law and get rid of the need for a priest to the speak for us to God. Jesus' death on the cross gave us direct contact with God and we should all be taking advantage of that. The gatheringof Christians together was never meant to be so rigid and ruling. Our time of fellowship should be lead by the Holy Spirit and GGod's leading. Our fellowship should give us the encouragement for the coming week and be the responsibility of the whole congregation not a select few. I do not mean a free for all but certainly not a mindless hour of fluff. Church is what we make it, not what is made for us. We should be giving what we want to receive and then more.

God Bless, Kim

 

[Wormwood]

Kim,

I agree with much that you have written. Unfortunately, we have denoted the local gathering of believers (usually at a building) as "the church" or "the local church." It would probably be best if people referred to it as the local gathering, but we are kinda stuck with the terminology. So yes, the church is the people and the focus should not be on a building or where you gather for an hour on Sunday.

I disagree that pastors are acting as "priests" and that the local gathering is about one person being responsible for what others believe and forces them to believe what is taught blindly. I think if anyone has that perspective, then they are in error. Most pastors I have ever heard would also passionately reject any such idea. However, the Bible is very clear that the local church should have leaders and that those leaders should be in charge of teaching and acting as "overseers for your souls" and have responsibilities as "those who must give an account."

These leaders are also commanded to not only guide the teaching of the local gathering of believers, but also make sure things are done in an orderly way.

As for what generally takes place on Sunday morning at the local gathering: First, I agree that many local gatherings are too routine and should encourage more involvement from those who attend. However, much of what takes place with paid staff, and organized programming on Sunday morning is more of a result of our culture dictating what must be done...and not some distorted agenda from church leaders. The reality is that people live ridiculously busy lives and usually have an hour or two to spare a week for "church." Due to dense city populations (large cities in the first century would have probably been 20-50k people!) and large Christian gatherings (100s to 1000s of people) it makes sense to have organized, planned teaching times for those hundreds to thousands of people who gather for an hour or two on Sunday. Moreover, it also makes sense that a number of these teachers would be full time, paid workers. Paul received pay at times for his work so he could be focused on the ministry, except when he thought it might prevent people from hearing the Gospel. It is unrealistic to expect that people who work 40-60 hours a week and have family activities on top of that to be able to devote the time necessary to minister to hundreds or thousands of other Christians. Most local church organizations use a healthy combination of people who are full-time, part-time and volunteer workers to accomplish all the counseling, teaching, encouragement, benevolence, and discipline that local Christians may require. Not only that, but in our culture, people associate the value of your message with the effort and professionalism associated with sharing it. People are used to universities, media presentations and the very best teaching, that can be offered. If the church in this culture were to just gather together weekly with no real planning, preparation, or leaders who were educated and highly capable leaders...most people in our culture would not come to hear the Gospel preached.

Finally, most local gatherings I have been to do not limit their ministry to a one hour meeting on Sunday. Most of them have small groups, weekday mens and womens meetings, missions activities, sunday morning classes, etc. There are plenty of ways for laypeople to lead all of these groups and classes. I think its unfair to suggest that the only thing that happens with church organizations is a Sunday morning show where people are blindly taught what to believe. I don't know of any local church gathering that is structured to function in this way. If this is your experience, I would encourage you to look elsewhere as it is certainly not the norm.

 

[Axehead]

I like this comment by "Don't Gruber Me".

"This diatribe is just as man-centered as what he is attacking. Reading the whole article, I see no mention of the real problem. The real problem is that by and large, many churches are man-centered instead of a Christ-centered and because of that, they will naturally be executing the agenda of men rather than Christ. That is what happens when you gather unto men and Christ is no longer the preeminent, Head of the Church."

So, true. Christ has moved on from many of these organizations, long ago and they don't even realize it.

Axehead

 

[Tess]

I think that a large part of the problem is that people see the church as judgmental and non -welcoming. Now I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, I think that a lot of churches are genuine Christ-centered communities, but I think that a lot of people perceive the church as un-welcoming.

Personally, I like it when churches focus on the community amongst the congregation, and outreach helping the local community, so I would like to see more of that in churches.

 

[Axehead]

I think that a large part of the problem is that people see the church as judgmental and non -welcoming. Now I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, I think that a lot of churches are genuine Christ-centered communities, but I think that a lot of people perceive the church as un-welcoming.

Personally, I like it when churches focus on the community amongst the congregation, and outreach helping the local community, so I would like to see more of that in churches.

If our only goal would be to see more of Jesus in ourselves and others, then all these other things would not matter anymore. We are not to look at the Church (each other) and judge them for not doing enough, or not being more loving or welcoming or whatever. The Church is people not a club but we have made it into a club and therefore we judge it according to performance and other outward measures. If they are un-welcoming, we should be more welcoming. If they are unloving, we should be more loving. Maybe they just need to see an example. Can we be the examples that radiate Christ? A lot of churches are mission grounds and need to be evangelized, too. Comparing ourselves with others or this church with that church is a trap many of us fall into.

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.