'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

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Earburner

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1. I find it very interesting that you quote 2Peter 3: 7-13 but you didn't quote it from verse 5-13. You see in verses 5 and 6 it shows you that in the days of Noah there was a heaven and earth destroyed. Then from verse 7 it tells us that the heaven and earth (different heaven and earth than in Noah's day)that are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Hi Barney,
2 Peter 3:5-6 is easily explained, because it should already be understood that God intervened in the original flow of water accumulating in the clouds as rain.
He directed that it shall be for 40 days/nights, that the rain would be continual for an appointed duration, with the earth's acquifiers also in upheaval. Therefore, the water increased far beyond what it had been, and covered the hills/mountains over all the earth.
It then took 150 days (5 mos.) for the water to recede over all the earth.
Genesis 7:24.

After the flood, God intervened again and stopped the rain/flood. Genesis 8:1-3.
So the issue is, after God's extreme intervention, the heavens of water were newly restored back, but now to a newer state, aka becoming in essence, a new heaven.
Note: If you recall, in the beginning the earth was originally covered with water, until God divided the waters, thus creating a heaven. In the flood event, God REMOVED that division for 40 days/nights, and then had to RESTORE the division, thus re-creating a new heaven, and of course a new earth.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Concerning the phrases such as Only GOD-Begotten GOD, GOD THE SON. There's no scriptures that are written that way in the manuscripts. I know some versions of the Bible invert the phrase," Son of God as God the Son," but there is no justification for it. I understand that people have the right to believe what they choose to believe. That doesn't mean I will agree with what they believe and they can argue about it all they want or think whatever they want about me but when such people invert such phrases as Son of God into God the Son they have no scriptural authority to do so, even though they think they do.

I know that you and others among Christendom believe that those who belief is GOD-THE-ONLY-GOD-BEGOTTEN “Son of Man” are the True Christians. The problem with that however is that
Jesus’ own words at John 20:17 says “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. Basically you and others as far as I can see, you're calling Jesus a liar. Jesus never claimed to be God and I think Jesus knew who he was.

Think what you will; give permission like you will; understand people's rights according to them and you if your highness approve. It doesn't mean God will agree or approve or permit. God is Almighty Saviour God whatever you want and like to think about Him in Christ Jesus God the Son.

I do tell you now, You have your Jesus equal / double nicely zipped in in your pocket, keep it that way. It won't deprive the rest of us of anything.
 

Earburner

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And I by the grace of God believe that Jesus is God the Son of God.
Amen!!
Mat. 16[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
[14] And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Hi Barney,
2 Peter 3:5-6 is easily explained, because it should already be understood that God intervened in the original flow of water accumulating in the clouds as rain.
He directed that it shall be for 40 days/nights, that the rain would be continual for an appointed duration, with the earth's acquifiers also in upheaval. Therefore, the water increased far beyond what it had been, and covered the hills/mountains over all the earth.
It then took 150 days (5 mos.) for the water to recede over all the earth.
Genesis 7:24.

After the flood, God intervened again and stopped the rain/flood. Genesis 8:1-3.
So the issue is, after God's extreme intervention, the heavens of water were newly restored back, but now to a newer state, aka becoming in essence, a new heaven.
Note: If you recall, in the beginning the earth was originally covered with water, until God divided the waters, thus creating a heaven. In the flood event, God REMOVED that division for 40 days/nights, and then had to RESTORE the division, thus re-creating a new heaven, and of course a new earth.

You can ignore it all you want to, but 2 peter 3:5,6 is very clear that a heaven and earth passed away at that time. I think you're denying the truth that's in the scriptures. You have a right to your beliefs however just don't expect me to agree with them. At 2 Peter 3:5,6 God had it written down that a heaven and earth past away and that heaven and earth that are now are a different heaven and earth than during the days of Noah. I will always let people go by their interpretation because that's their right. No one should speak out against you for exercising your rights, but other people have the same exact rights and can choose to disagree with you if they honestly do disagree with you. I honestly think you're wrong how you choose to see this scripture.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Think what you will; give permission like you will; understand people's rights according to them and you if your highness approve. It doesn't mean God will agree or approve or permit. God is Almighty Saviour God whatever you want and like to think about Him in Christ Jesus God the Son.

I do tell you now, You have your Jesus equal / double nicely zipped in in your pocket, keep it that way. It won't deprive the rest of us of anything.

Like I said, think what you want of me, but me stating that the manuscripts nowhere have the phrase, "Son of God," as, "God the Son" is true. It's instead these many versions of the Bible who are taking liberties and inverting the phrase, "Son of God," to, "God the Son ," when nowhere in the manuscripts is the phrase, "Son of God," inverted to,"God the Son." I don't agree with any Bible translations or versions that invert the phrase, "Son of God," to, "God the Son," because of their belief. Too many people are trying to convince me that when God inspired the men he used to write the scriptures that when he inspired them to write down the phrase, "Son of God," it should have been, "God the Son." I however think that when God inspired men to write down the phrase, "Son of God," it was completely accurate and needs not to be inverted to, "God the Son."
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Your post addresses me. That means I claim what you say, <<that Jesus took that human life back>>. Bull I did not say that or anything near it.

Although when I used the word "you" I wasn't just talking about you but talking about those who say What they believe which is: they say that Jesus Christ himself was raised with the very same body in which he was crucified, and that fact sets the pattern for all the other dead who are to be resurrected. And Jesus now has that same body in heaven to which he ascended.
You stated that anyone who doesn't believe Jesus wasn't resurrected in the flesh is an Antichrist. So what flesh are you talking about if you're not talking about the same body that Jesus was put the death in? Most people like I said that believe in the Trinity believe Jesus was resurrected with the exact same body he was put to death in which was a human body. Are you saying you don't believe that? Because I'll tell you now that most people I've met who believe in the Trinity believe Jesus to have been resurrected with the exact same body he was crucified in and those who don't believe that are a part of the Antichrist teaching.
So if like you said you didn't say Jesus took that human life back nor anything near that, but then you say that anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus was resurrected in the flesh is an Antichrist. So what flesh are you talking about? Remember what I said though that so far everyone I talked to who believes in the Trinity when it comes to the resurrection of Jesus and what kind of body he was resurrected in they all say it was the exact same body that he was crucified in and those that disagree with that are a part of Antichrist teaching.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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And I by the grace of God believe that Jesus is God the Son of God.

Show me in the scriptures where it's written down where it says, "Jesus is God the Son of God." I can find many places where it is written down Jesus is the Son of God but not any place where it's written down. that says Jesus is God the Son of God
 

Earburner

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You can ignore it all you want to, but 2 peter 3:5,6 is very clear that a heaven and earth passed away at that time. I think you're denying the truth that's in the scriptures. You have a right to your beliefs however just don't expect me to agree with them. At 2 Peter 3:5,6 God had it written down that a heaven and earth past away and that heaven and earth that are now are a different heaven and earth than during the days of Noah. I will always let people go by their interpretation because that's their right. No one should speak out against you for exercising your rights, but other people have the same exact rights and can choose to disagree with you if they honestly do disagree with you. I honestly think you're wrong how you choose to see this scripture.
During the Flood, did Mount Arrarat get covered with water?
Yes! It did!

Was Mount Arrarat, Mount Arrarat, before the flood?
Yes! It was!

Was Mount Arrarat, Mount Arrarat, after the flood?
Yes! It was, and it still is?
Why? You don't know!!
But, I did explain it.

Now, when the Lord returns in all His Glory, in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), the resulting reality then, will be 2 Peter 3:10-12, being the Lake of Fire, engulfing the whole entire earth.
With the elements (dirt and rocks melting), it will be more like a Lake of LAVA!

Will Mount Arrarat still be there afterwards?
Nope! It won't even be a little hill, but rather a pile of lava instead!

So then, what shall appear after this physical earth and celestial heavens are destroyed?
Ans. 2 Peter 3:13, of which will be like nothing that we have ever known, or can imagine!
Why?
Ans. Jesus is the New Heaven, and we who are BODILY resurrected after His Immortal likeness, will be the New Earth!!
Why?
Because, WITHIN EACH OF US, who are of faith in Jesus, IS WHERE the Father desires TO DWELL.

And it best be happening NOW, by us receiving the Gift of His Holy Spirit, otherwise we will be declared to be "none of His" upon His return. Romans 8:8-9.
"Ye must be Born Again [now].
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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During the Flood, did Mount Arrarat get covered with water?
Yes! It did!

Was Mount Arrarat, Mount Arrarat, before the flood?
Yes! It was!

Was Mount Arrarat, Mount Arrarat, after the flood?
Yes! It was, and it still is?
Why? You don't know!!
But, I did explain it.

Now, when the Lord returns in all His Glory, in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), the resulting reality then, will be 2 Peter 3:10-12, being the Lake of Fire, engulfing the whole entire earth.
With the elements (dirt and rocks melting), it will be more like a Lake of LAVA!

Will Mount Arrarat still be there afterwards?
Nope! It won't even be a little hill, but rather a pile of lava instead!

So then, what shall appear after this physical earth and celestial heavens are destroyed?
Ans. 2 Peter 3:13, of which will be like nothing that we have ever known, or can imagine!
Why?
Ans. Jesus is the New Heaven, and we who are BODILY resurrected after His Immortal likeness, will be the New Earth!!
Why?
Because, WITHIN EACH OF US, who are of faith in Jesus, IS WHERE the Father desires TO DWELL.

And it best be happening NOW, by us receiving the Gift of His Holy Spirit, otherwise we will be declared to be "none of His" upon His return. Romans 8:8-9.
"Ye must be Born Again [now].

I understand that it's your interpretations you have faith in, so be it, but like I said the scripture at 2Peter 3:5,6 is very clear. I'll believe what's written down, you continue to believe your interpretations. I have no faith in an imperfect persons interpretations. You have a right to your interpretations, I just disagree with your interpretations.
Also the scriptures don't say planet earth is thrown into the lake of fire. It says, the wild beast, the false prophet, Satan and his demons, those humans who worship Satan, death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire, but nowhere does it say planet earth is thrown into the lake of fire.
Also you're interpreting the scripture at 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 to mean the planet is being destroyed when it's obvious it's intelligent beings, wicked mankind being destroyed not the planet itself.
I understand that like many others, you believe that 2 Peter 3:10-12 when talking about the elements being destroyed you believe it's the dirt and rocks that being talked about being destroyed. I believe the elements which are destroyed is the spirit that
motivates ungodly mankind to think, plan, speak and act in their God-dishonoring way will be dissolved or reduced to nothingness. (Compare Acts 9:1; Ephesians 2:1-3.) This will spell the end for all the philosophies, theories, arrangements and schemes that reflect the spirit of mankind alienated from the Most High.

If this text (2 Peter 3:7, 10 mean that the literal planet Earth is to be consumed by fire, Such a literal view, conflicts with the assurance contained in such texts as Matthew 6:10, Psalm 37:29 and 104:5, also Proverbs 2:21, 22. The term “earth” in the quoted text of 2 Peter 3: 7,10 I believe must be understood in a different sense than the literal planet Earth.

At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society. I believe that's the case at 2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1.

Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the globe itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is “discovered”; that is, Jehovah will sear away as by fire all disguise, exposing the wickedness of ungodly human society and showing it to be worthy of complete destruction. That wicked society of humans is also “the first earth,” referred to at Revelation 21:1 (KJ).
 

atpollard

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'Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,

then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.


'O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my beloved brethren,
be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,
forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.'

(1 Corinthians 15:55)

Hello there,

I have begun a study on resurrection, and began with reading through 1 Corinthians 15, a wonderful chapter on that subject.

The verses above show clearly that it is at the moment of our resurrection from the dead that death for us will be swallowed up in victory. Not at the moment of our death, but at our resurrection from the dead, which is yet to come.

Do you have any comment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
ALREADY AND NOT YET ...

Baptists have a tendency to see the truth of “Already and not yet” in all of the great truths of God and our Christian walk. The truth that you have touched upon is no different.

When was DEATH swallowed up in VICTORY?
  • [PAST] about 2000 years ago when a certain Savior died and rose again snatching the keys of victory from the ruler of this dark age and became the first of many Children of God that would follow Him in victory.
  • [PRESENT] In 1979, when that same Son of Man reached into the darkness and snatched ME from Spiritual Death into Spiritual Life ... claiming me as His Own Possession and forever altering the trajectory of my Life and Eternity.
  • [FUTURE] We see in a mirror dimly, but it will not always be so. There is coming a day when our faith will become reality and we shall be both transformed and called into His Eternal Presence.
So the answer to “when” is “Already and not yet.”

Arthur
Particular Baptist
 

bbyrd009

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How interesting...,
I had always thought of "'O death, where is thy sting? as a fear of death being removed when saved. I can say that that was the first thing that I lost when submitting to Him fully.
yes
I will read 1 Corinthians 15 now and see if my muddled brain can see what you see.
In Him always!
Nancy
k well if it does just go shoot yourself imo k
 
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bbyrd009

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Surely I've been more clear than this!

Jesus died a righteous death - a paradox actually. Because a righteous man is to live. Yet having completed His obedience, He released His Spirit in death. But being righteous, He inherited the eternal life promised before creation, and returned from among the dead.

And God, now revealing the mystery hid from ages past, that it would not just be Jesus, but "I, and the children God has given me", His children, born from God, sharing the live possessed by the Son.

The Adamic Humanity judged and condemned, but we are now made alive from among the dead, justified in our new creation, righteous and holy, no longer the man of sin, no longer bearing his guilt or stain. Now we are taken out of Adam and are alive in Christ, the new humanity, God's spirit children.

Yet for all this, I'm still in that old Adamic body. And it will die. But one day I won't be subject to death, and then will be fulfilled, death is swallowed up in victory.

Much love!
tomorrow, huh
 

Earburner

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Also the scriptures don't say planet earth is thrown into the lake of fire. It says, the wild beast, the false prophet, Satan and his demons, those humans who worship Satan, death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire, but nowhere does it say planet earth is thrown into the lake of fire.
Please describe the Lake of Fire.
Is it only 100 acres large, or maybe 10,000 acres? If you don't know, then one can say the whole earth!!
As it was so with the Flood, by which heaven rained down rain from heaven, and all the aquifers of the whole earth were unleashed!
So in likeness (type and antitype), Jesus, in all His Glory, shall return from Heaven
in flaming fire, raining fire down from Heaven, and all of the LAVA of the Mantel, underneath the Crust of the whole earth, will be unleashed, hence "the Lake of Fire", of which is where the Beast and the False Prophet are (on earth), as well as hell, which are all the graves of the unsaved!

Yes!! All of the earth, the heavens (planets, sun, moon) the beast, the false prophet, the unsaved dead, shall be burned up!
Read 2 Peter 3 until you understand!!
 

bbyrd009

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tomorrow? Hard to know what you have in mind . . .
today is what i have in mind marks, wadr
tomorrow is not Anywhere that i can find, i challenge you to Quote a "tomorrow," although i agree it is written so that that is easy to assume ok. I submit that that is bc we each come in our own time, so "tomorrow" is for ppl who havent gotten it yet, thats all. And only Yah knows when, right not even the Son knows when? Bc life, more abundantly happens today, as long as it is called "today"
.
Just a small thing . . . "caught up in clouds" may mean that we are caught up into the water vapor that hangs in the sky, or that clouds of us will rise to meet Jesus. I believe the wording interprets correctly either way.
ok but lets not forget that we have a perfectly acceptable idiom for "clouds" too, meaning "obscures" or whatever, that require One Eye and not two, to even see eh. Wadr all of the Two Eyed interps, the appearances thing? Prolly not i bet
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
 
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bbyrd009

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I don't think most of us would be able to see what you see Mark :D
ha well i dunno, you said it already, i believe what you believe, its not really a puzzle imo

i mean we avoid this convo with esp little kids, but go try and have a conversation with a three year old about when they are going to probably die lol, and see what happens, more or less? :)
bc you are talking to an immortal imo, spiritually speaking anyway