'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?
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Earburner
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I am a JW. Don't care what anybody thinks about that either. Just thought I say that before you start persecuting JW. I can see for myself that what others in Christendom thinks and believes isn't true. I wasn't always a JW you know, I grew up in the Baptists and Pentecostal churches and saw all the hypocrisy from the preachers and the deacons and the other baptized members of the churches. Whether you or anyone agrees or disagrees with that is their personal choice but I'm not going to ignore what's going on in these so called churches of God nor will I ignore so many scriptures as most of the churches in Christendom do. Plus the Baptist and Pentecostal churches lied to me. I have always believed John 3:16 but these churches in Christendom who quote it, don't truly believe it. What do I mean by that? I found out a long time ago that Christendom doesn't believe Jesus to be the Only Begotten Son of God but instead they believe him to be God. So when the scriptures say that, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." That's what I believe. But Christendom doesn't. They believe it was God who gave himself to the world. That it was God who died for mankind, not the Only Begotten Son of God. Make sure you understand something too, it wasn't some JW that taught me that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who came to the world and died for mankind. Like I said it's what I have always believed before I was a JW now that I am a JW I still believe and it's what I will always believe no matter what anyone thinks about that.
VictoryinJesus
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Do you mind if I ask you a question concerning Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
“...this day have I begotten thee.” What “this day” ?
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
In speaking about Acts 13:33- With regard to Jesus’ resurrection from the dead, Paul applied part of Psalm 2 to that occasion, quoting God’s words, “You are my son, I have become your Father this day,” and he also applied words from God’s covenant with David, namely: “I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son.” (Ps 2:7; 2Sa 7:14; Ac 13:33; Heb 1:5; compare Heb 5:5.) By his resurrection from the dead to spirit life, Jesus was “declared God’s Son” (Ro 1:4), “declared righteous in spirit.”—1Ti 3:16.
Thus, it is seen that, even as David as a grown man could ‘become God’s son’ in a special sense, so, too, Christ Jesus also ‘became God’s Son’ in a special way, at the time of his baptism and at his resurrection, and also, evidently, at the time of his entrance into full Kingdom glory.
I know you and others like you will teach something different but the scripture Acts 13:33 doesn't teach that The Only Begotten Son didn't exist in heaven as the Only Begotten Son of God with his Father who is God. The point is that none like you have any faith to believe that The True God Jehovah actually does have a Only Begotten Son.
The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14;3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Loʹgos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God." What that means, to me, is that before The Only Begotten Son of God even became human and was given the name Jesus he existed in heaven with his Father who is God and he was still The Only Begotten Son of God. "Even before the world was," meaning even before this physical universe was created The Only Begotten Son of God existed in heaven with his Father who is God.(Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) You see even at that time even before he became human, even before God created this universe The Word who is the Only Begotten Son of God is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”—1Jo 4:9.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Barney,
First off, thank you for your testimony as a believer in the JW faith. I firmly believe that for every person who accepts and receives the Person of Jesus as their Lord and Savior (His Holy Spirit), they are born again into a NEW creature.
All of such, who are made to be a "new creature", are the new creation, and if you can accept it, we are the "new earth".
So then, lets reflect on what God said and how He said it, in KJV Isaiah 65:17 and Isaiah 66:22.
Now please consider Isaiah 55:9-9, as to how we should interpret the "new heavens and new earth".
We are to understand it not by our mind of understanding, but rather by His Mind, that is if you do HAVE His Holy Spirit living within you, aka "the mind of Christ" . KJV Romans 8:9
Without a doubt, according to KJV- NT scripture, this physical earth, as well as the physical heaven of celestial planets etc., will be DESTROYED.
KJV 2 Peter 3:7-13 Revelation 21:22-27
Revelation 22:1-5.
Now, I can deliver much more on explanation and scripture references for better understanding, but I will not do that here in this post, unless you have interest.
Remember, Adam was "created" from the elements of this earth. But, as you have already confirmed, Jesus' origin IS NOT OF this earth! I will leave it there for now for to dwell on.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Barney, I do know that you read the "New World" (NWO?) Translation of the scriptures, and not the KJV Bible.
To inform you, I have always read the KJV, but at one time, i did have a parallel edition bible of the NT scriptures, printed in eight translations (8TB), the KJV included.
As I would often reference that 8TB, I discovered from out of it, i could fabricate any doctrine that I could imagine. It nearly drove me insane, so much so, that I threw myself on God's Mercy, and vowed never to read it again, and went back to the KJV only, with the sole comittment to trust Him only for His guidance, as He promised in John 16:13. That was 30 years ago, and since then, i continue to ready and study only the KJV, and for that He has proved within me "his peace that passes all understanding".
So, where am I going with this?
The 1611 KJV is translated from the "Textus Receptus Greek text, whereas
the JW- New World Translation, and ALL the newer translations of today, are translated from the "Westcott & Hort" Greek text.
After my horrendous and frustrating experience of reading that 8TBible, sorry but i don't trust any bible that is translated from "Westcott and Hort" AT ALL, and shall continue to warn Christians to DESTROY them.
As for my 8TBible, my level of frustration and confusion was so bad, I literally tore it up (3" thick), so that no other person could find it and read it! Really, it was that bad. I almost gave up in my walk in Christ. But thank God, He never gave up on me, and brought me back through the KJV.
I warn you! Don't be corrupted!
To inform you, I have always read the KJV, but at one time, i did have a parallel edition bible of the NT scriptures, printed in eight translations (8TB), the KJV included.
As I would often reference that 8TB, I discovered from out of it, i could fabricate any doctrine that I could imagine. It nearly drove me insane, so much so, that I threw myself on God's Mercy, and vowed never to read it again, and went back to the KJV only, with the sole comittment to trust Him only for His guidance, as He promised in John 16:13. That was 30 years ago, and since then, i continue to ready and study only the KJV, and for that He has proved within me "his peace that passes all understanding".
So, where am I going with this?
The 1611 KJV is translated from the "Textus Receptus Greek text, whereas
the JW- New World Translation, and ALL the newer translations of today, are translated from the "Westcott & Hort" Greek text.
After my horrendous and frustrating experience of reading that 8TBible, sorry but i don't trust any bible that is translated from "Westcott and Hort" AT ALL, and shall continue to warn Christians to DESTROY them.
As for my 8TBible, my level of frustration and confusion was so bad, I literally tore it up (3" thick), so that no other person could find it and read it! Really, it was that bad. I almost gave up in my walk in Christ. But thank God, He never gave up on me, and brought me back through the KJV.
I warn you! Don't be corrupted!
Unlike the Islam-like <Christendom> like the JWs, the <Christendom> of "true believers" believe Jesus to be the Only GOD-Begotten GOD, GOD THE SON, born "GOD-the-Son-of-Man" of a woman on earth (not what JWs believe Him to be born, a man the son of man on earth).
Therefore when the Scriptures say "For God so loved the world that He gave his Only begotten Son so that whosoever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life", it is because HE WHOM they believe in is GOD-THE-ONLY-GOD-BEGOTTEN “Son of Man”.
That's what I believe. And so does true Christianity. We do not believe <it> was GOD who gave Himself; we believe GOD it was who gave HIMSELF to save the world. And indeed GOD it was who died for the sins of man, the inimitable “Only Begotten Son”: of God: “GOD the Son”.
Make sure you understand anyone who (like the JWs) says he understands fully, understands least, for no man, least oneself, can teach you this.
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Yes everyone needs "God" to die. God didnt die Jesus did,
Mat_8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Mat_12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Yet HE is also the son of God
Mat_16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Anybody declaring Jesus came from the dead, resurrected <<to spirit life>>, "not in the flesh, is Antichrist". Finis
GOD "the Son of Man standing : GOD : The Right Hand of God."
"THIS JESUS YE CRUCIFIED GOD RAISED LORD AND CHRIST" : "my GOD".
Yes that you do every time you speak.absolutely no understanding, but plenty of anger to go around.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Hi Gerhard, nice to see (hear) you again!
I trust that the Lord has been blessing you with all the spiritual blessings of His Grace!
In His Name,
Earburner
Earburner
Well-Known Member
In support of GE, I submit:
John 20[7] Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
1 John 1[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
Col. 1[18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning [of new creatures], the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
bbyrd009
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I find it very interesting that you quote 2Peter 3: 7-13 but you didn't quote it from verse 5-13. You see in verses 5 and 6 it shows you that in the days of Noah there was a heaven and earth destroyed. Then from verse 7 it tells us that the heaven and earth (different heaven and earth than in Noah's day)that are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Concerning Revelations scriptures you quoted:
Hundreds of years before John’s day, Jehovah had said to Isaiah: “For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.” (Isaiah 65:17; 66:22) This prophecy was initially fulfilled when faithful Jews returned to Jerusalem in 537 B.C.E. after their 70-year exile in Babylon. In that restoration, they formed a cleansed society, “a new earth,” under a new governmental system, “new heavens.” The apostle Peter, however, pointed to a further application of the prophecy, saying: “But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” (2 Peter 3:13) John now shows that this promise is fulfilled during the Lord’s day. “The former heaven and the former earth,” Satan’s organized system of things with its governmental structure influenced by Satan and his demons, will pass away. The turbulent “sea” of wicked, rebellious mankind will cease to exist. In its place will be “a new heaven and a new earth”—a new earthly society under a new government, God’s Kingdom.—Compare Revelation 20:11.
When Jehovah made the Law covenant with the then new nation of Israel, he promised: “I shall certainly put my tabernacle in the midst of you, and my soul will not abhor you. And I shall indeed walk in the midst of you and prove myself your God, and you, on your part, will prove yourselves my people.” (Leviticus 26:11, 12) Now Jehovah is making a similar promise to faithful humans. During the thousand-year Judgment Day, they will become a very special people to him.
During the Millennial Reign, Jehovah will “reside” among mankind in a temporary arrangement, he being represented by his royal Son, Jesus Christ. At the end of the Thousand Year Reign, however, when Jesus hands the Kingdom over to his Father, no royal representative or intercessor will be needed. Jehovah will reside spiritually with “his peoples” in a permanent and direct way. (Compare John 4:23, 24.) What a lofty privilege for restored humanity!
In truth, there is no need to construct a literal temple here. The ancient Jewish temple was just a pattern, and the reality of that pattern, the great spiritual temple, has existed since Jehovah anointed Jesus as High Priest in 29 C.E. (Matthew 3:16, 17; Hebrews 9:11, 12, 23, 24) A temple also presupposes a priestly class offering sacrifices to Jehovah on behalf of the people. But all those who are part of New Jerusalem are priests. (Revelation 20:6) And the great sacrifice, Jesus’ perfect human life, has been offered once for all time. (Hebrews 9:27, 28)
Who are these “nations” walking by means of the light of New Jerusalem? They are people, once a part of the nations of this wicked world, who respond to the light shed through this glorious heavenly city. Foremost among them are the great crowd, who have already come out of “all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues” and who worship God day and night in company with the John class. (Revelation 7:9, 15) After New Jerusalem comes down from heaven and Jesus uses the keys of death and of Hades to resurrect the dead, they will be joined by millions more, originally from “the nations,” who come to love Jehovah and his Son, the Lamblike Husband of New Jerusalem.—Revelation 1:18.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Concerning the phrases such as Only GOD-Begotten GOD, GOD THE SON. There's no scriptures that are written that way in the manuscripts. I know some versions of the Bible invert the phrase," Son of God as God the Son," but there is no justification for it. I understand that people have the right to believe what they choose to believe. That doesn't mean I will agree with what they believe and they can argue about it all they want or think whatever they want about me but when such people invert such phrases as Son of God into God the Son they have no scriptural authority to do so, even though they think they do.
I know that you and others among Christendom believe that those who belief is GOD-THE-ONLY-GOD-BEGOTTEN “Son of Man” are the True Christians. The problem with that however is that
Jesus’ own words at John 20:17 says “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. Basically you and others as far as I can see, you're calling Jesus a liar. Jesus never claimed to be God and I think Jesus knew who he was.
I know that you and others among Christendom believe that those who belief is GOD-THE-ONLY-GOD-BEGOTTEN “Son of Man” are the True Christians. The problem with that however is that
Jesus’ own words at John 20:17 says “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. Basically you and others as far as I can see, you're calling Jesus a liar. Jesus never claimed to be God and I think Jesus knew who he was.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Many say that Jesus Christ himself was raised with the very same body in which he was crucified, and that fact sets the pattern for all the other dead who are to be resurrected. And Jesus now has that same body in heaven to which he ascended.’ I understand that some have been taught this in the religious churches that they have attended. But does the apostle Paul agree with that? Does the apostle Peter agree with that? In 1 Peter 3:18, 19 he says, according to The New English Bible of 1961: “For Christ also died for our sins once for all. He, the just, suffered for the unjust, to bring us to God. In the body he was put to death; in the spirit he was brought to life. And in the spirit he went and made his proclamation to the imprisoned spirits.” Other modern translations of 1 Peter 3:18, 19 read similarly. So the scriptures show that Jesus was resurrected as a spiritual being.
At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text of 1 Peter 3:18 the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”
So You believe what you want. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Also when it comes to the scriptures after Jesus was resurrected you claim that Jesus took that human life back. The scriptures however show that Jesus willingly came to sacrifice his human life. He didn't take that human life back. He was resurrected as a powerful spiritual being who was given immortality and inherited incorruption. The scriptures show that Jesus appeared in different forms to his Apostles after his resurrection. Mark 16:12.
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