'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[charity]

Hello again,

It is important that we have a true conception of what 'death' is being referred to in 1 Corinthians 15:53-55. For as can be seen by some of the responses within this thread, there is differing understanding concerning what it is. Yet the words of 1 Corinthians 15:21 leaves us in no doubt what is being referred to.

'For since by man came death,
by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in His own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.'
(1Corinthians 15:21-23)

* Death, in 1 Corinthians 15:54 therefore refers to that which came into the world, as a consequence of Adam's transgression.

* Christ rose victorious from the grave, and so will those that are Christ's at His coming, and it is then that the saying ' death is swallowed up in victory' will be realised.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

'Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.

'O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my beloved brethren,
be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,
forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.'
(1 Corinthians 15:55)

Hello there,

I have begun a study on resurrection, and began with reading through 1 Corinthians 15, a wonderful chapter on that subject.

The verses above show clearly that it is at the moment of our resurrection from the dead that death for us will be swallowed up in victory. Not at the moment of our death, but at our resurrection from the dead, which is yet to come.

Do you have any comment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Most people today when it comes to those humans who Jehovah God through his Only Begotten Son Jesus has judged as righteous believe they all will be in heaven and that when Armageddon happens most people believe that this physical universe along with planet Earth will be destroyed. Most people when they read in Scripture that a heaven and Earth is destroyed and see a new heaven and Earth take those scriptures literally to mean that Jehovah God will destroy the physical heavens(universe) along with planet Earth then literally create another heaven(universe) along with another planet Earth.
The point is when most people read about the resurrection in 1Corinthians 15 they believe that these scriptures are talking about all righteous mankind when in fact these scriptures are talking about the anointed of God. Those who will get a resurrection like Jesus and be given immortality and inherit incorruption will be kings, judges, and Priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom ruling over the Earth. However just as there will be those bought from among mankind who get a resurrection like Jesus and rule over the Earth there will be those on Earth(righteous mankind) who will be the subjects of that Messianic kingdom.
Those who get the heavenly resurrection who are given immortality and inherit incorruption at the moment of their resurrection, death isn't master over them no more. They are immortal and incorruptible so it's impossible for them to die.
However those righteous mankind on Earth after Armageddon and during that time called the Thousand year reign of Jesus Christ while Jehovah God through his Only Begotten Son will progressively take righteous mankind toward human perfection so that at the end of that thousand years every human on earth at that time will be perfect as the first man Adam was perfect before he sinned. Because of that no one will be dying because of sin because the sin that was brought into mankind by the first man Adam will be done away with. This doesn't mean righteous mankind on Earth are immortals as those who were resurrected into heaven. Righteous mankind are promised eternal life which is not the same as immortality but as long as righteous mankind loves The True God so much that they exercise faith that The True God Jehovah knows what is in the best interests of mankind and therefore obedient to Jehovah's command as to what is best for mankind and what isn't best for mankind they will continue to live without sickness or wars or hunger or homelessness without growing old but forever young.

 

[charity]

Most people today when it comes to those humans who Jehovah God through his Only Begotten Son Jesus has judged as righteous believe they all will be in heaven and that when Armageddon happens most people believe that this physical universe along with planet Earth will be destroyed. Most people when they read in Scripture that a heaven and Earth is destroyed and see a new heaven and Earth take those scriptures literally to mean that Jehovah God will destroy the physical heavens(universe) along with planet Earth then literally create another heaven(universe) along with another planet Earth.
The point is when most people read about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 they believe that these scriptures are talking about all righteous mankind when in fact these scriptures are talking about the anointed of God. Those who will get a resurrection like Jesus and be given immortality and inherit incorruption will be kings, judges, and Priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom ruling over the Earth. However just as there will be those bought from among mankind who get a resurrection like Jesus and rule over the Earth there will be those on Earth (righteous mankind) who will be the subjects of that Messianic kingdom.
Those who get the heavenly resurrection who are given immortality and inherit incorruption at the moment of their resurrection, death isn't master over them no more. They are immortal and incorruptible so it's impossible for them to die.
However those righteous mankind on Earth after Armageddon and during that time called the Thousand year reign of Jesus Christ while Jehovah God through his Only Begotten Son will progressively take righteous mankind toward human perfection so that at the end of that thousand years every human on earth at that time will be perfect as the first man Adam was perfect before he sinned. Because of that no one will be dying because of sin because the sin that was brought into mankind by the first man Adam will be done away with. This doesn't mean righteous mankind on Earth are immortals as those who were resurrected into heaven. Righteous mankind are promised eternal life which is not the same as immortality but as long as righteous mankind loves The True God so much that they exercise faith that The True God Jehovah knows what is in the best interests of mankind and therefore obedient to Jehovah's command as to what is best for mankind and what isn't best for mankind they will continue to live without sickness or wars or hunger or homelessness without growing old but forever young.

'It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body.
(1 Corinthians 15:44)

Hello @BARNEY BRIGHT,

Your response brings up several different points which could be discussed.
However, in relation to the moment when death will be swallowed up in victory, which is when this mortal shall put on immortality, and when corruption shall put on incorruption: that applies to everyone who is Christ's. For it is at the moment of the believers resurrection from the dead that this transformation from the natural to the spiritual will take place.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brionne]

Hello @brionne

What a lovely user name.

Yes it is descriptive of the change that will take place in the bodies of both those who will be 'asleep in Christ' at that time, and those who are 'alive and remain' unto the Lord's coming. Though I believe it will be the experience of all who believe regardless of when they are resurrected, for that is only one of the resurrections that will take place, isn't it?

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our risen Lord and Head.
Chris

have you any thoughts on what this 2nd resurrection may refer to?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

 

[Earburner]

1 Corinthians 15:23-28
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

The Day of the last enemy, death, will be destroyed and eliminated upon the Day of Jesus' Glorious return in flaming Fire.

All of His Saints, both dead and alive, who have His Holy Spirit, will be resurrected bodily, into His Immortal likeness.

The wicked dead, and those who are alive in their flesh only, having not the Holy Spirit, will be destroyed in the lake of fire, caused by Christ's Presence of Eternal Fire! The unsaved will never live again!!
People who are without the Holy Spirit can NEVER be resurrected!! EVER!!!
Romans 8:9

Hence, NO MORE DEATH!!
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; 2 Peter 3:10-12

 

[brionne]

Hello again,

It is important that we have a true conception of what 'death' is being referred to in 1 Corinthians 15:53-55. For as can be seen by some of the responses within this thread, there is differing understanding concerning what it is. Yet the words of 1 Corinthians 15:21 leaves us in no doubt what is being referred to.

'For since by man came death,
by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in His own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.'
(1Corinthians 15:21-23)

* Death, in 1 Corinthians 15:54 therefore refers to that which came into the world, as a consequence of Adam's transgression.

* Christ rose victorious from the grave, and so will those that are Christ's at His coming, and it is then that the saying ' death is swallowed up in victory' will be realised.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi charity,

Death for all mankind came thru Adam... but yes, thru Christ all will be made alive.

But do you notice there there are 2 resurrections?

1st is called the 'firstfruits' and the 2nd wave of resurrection occurs 'afterward at his coming'

this indicates 2 different groups will receive a resurrection.
Those who are firstfruits are explained further in Revelation 14:1 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads... 4... These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,

And these ones have a job to perform as 'priests & kings'
Revelation 20:6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years

We understand the role of priests and kings...they have the task of leading and guiding people. So it is reasonable to conclude that those who do go to heaven to rule as priests and kings are ruling over people from heaven where Jesus is enthroned. This means that not all of us will go to heaven therefore some must be resurrected to earth.

 

[charity]

Hi charity,

Death for all mankind came thru Adam ... but yes, thru Christ all will be made alive.

But do you notice there there are 2 resurrections?
1st is called the 'firstfruits' and the 2nd wave of resurrection occurs 'afterward at His coming'

... this indicates 2 different groups will receive a resurrection.
Those who are firstfruits are explained further in Revelation 14:1 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads... 4... These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,

And these ones have a job to perform as 'priests & kings'
Revelation 20:6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years

We understand the role of priests and kings...they have the task of leading and guiding people. So it is reasonable to conclude that those who do go to heaven to rule as priests and kings are ruling over people from heaven where Jesus is enthroned. This means that not all of us will go to heaven therefore some must be resurrected to earth.

Hello @brionne

I think it is good to quote the exact wording of 1 Corinthians 15:21-22), so that we know we understand each other:-

'For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'

* In Adam all die, yes, but not all 'in Adam' are 'in Christ'. So it is all who are 'in Christ' that shall be made alive. Do you agree?
* Again, let's see what is written regarding the firstfruits, in 1 Corinthians 15:20 & 23:-

'But now is Christ risen from the dead,
and become the firstfruits of them that slept.' (v.20)

'But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's
at His coming.' (v.23)

* So, Christ is the 'firstfruits' ('of them that slept'), and 'afterwards' they that are Christ's - 'at His coming'.
* This resurrection which takes place 'at His coming', is that of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion,
.. and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand,
.... having His Father's name written in their foreheads.

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters,
and as the voice of a great thunder:
and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:​

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,
.. and before the four beasts, and the elders:
.... and no man could learn that song
...... but the hundred and forty and four thousand,
........ which were redeemed from the earth.
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
.. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth.
.... These were redeemed from among men,
...... being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.'

* The 144,000 of the twelve tribes of Israel, who were redeemed from the earth must have part in the first of the two resurrections referred to in relation to the millennium reign, one before it, called 'the first resurrection', and one which comes after the 1,000 years is finished:-

'And I saw thrones,
.. and they sat upon them,
.... and judgement was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
.. for the witness of Jesus,
.... and for the word of God,
...... and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
........ neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
.......... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
.. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
.. on such the second death hath no power,
.... but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
...... and shall reign with Him a thousand years.'
(Rev 20:4-6)

* Those beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, are those seen by John in Revelation 6:9-10. here in Revelation 20:4-6 we see that their waiting is over - they have their part in the first resurrection:-

'And when He had opened the fifth seal,
.. I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,
.... and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
.. How long, O Lord, holy and true,
.... dost thou not judge and avenge our blood
...... on them that dwell on the earth?'
(Rev 6:9-10)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Have you any thoughts on what this 2nd resurrection may refer to?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

'But the rest of the dead lived not again
until the thousand years were finished. '
(Rev 20:5a)

Hello @brionne,

You asked for my comment regarding the resurrection which is said to take place after the 1,000 years were finished, which was one of two mentioned in relation to the millennial reign. In this resurrection, we are told by implication in Revelation 20:6, that those that are raised have the potential to be subject to the second death.

* I see no other record other than that of Revelation 20:11-15 to account for this second of these two resurrections:-

'And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it,
.. from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
.... and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
.. and the books were opened:
.... and another book was opened, which is the book of life:
...... and the dead were judged
........ out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:
and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.'

* Romans 2:5+, also speaks of a judgement, when mankind will be judged according to their works. Paul says in verse 16:-

'In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men
by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.'

* I don't know where to place this at present, but that a resurrection has to take place in order for it to be carried out is obvious: I just don't think it is the great white throne judgement of Revelation 20:11-15.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Earburner]

Hello @brionne

I think it is good to quote the exact wording of 1 Corinthians 15:21-22), so that we know we understand each other:-

'For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'

* In Adam all die, yes, but not all 'in Adam' are 'in Christ'. So it is all who are 'in Christ' that shall be made alive. Do you agree?
* Again, let's see what is written regarding the firstfruits, in 1 Corinthians 15:20 & 23:-

'But now is Christ risen from the dead,
and become the firstfruits of them that slept.' (v.20)

'But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's
at His coming.' (v.23)

* So, Christ is the 'firstfruits' ('of them that slept'), and 'afterwards' they that are Christ's - 'at His coming'.

* This resurrection which takes place 'at His coming', is that prophetically recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

-----------------------------

'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion,
.. and with him an hundred forty and four thousand,
.... having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters,
and as the voice of a great thunder:
and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:​

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,
.. and before the four beasts, and the elders:
.... and no man could learn that song
...... but the hundred and forty and four thousand,
........ which were redeemed from the earth.
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
.. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth.
.... These were redeemed from among men,
...... being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.'

* The 144,000 who were redeemed from the earth must have part in the first of two resurrections referred to in relation to the millennium reign, one before it, called 'the first resurrection', and one which came after the 1,000 years were finished:-

'And I saw thrones,
.. and they sat upon them,
.... and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
.. for the witness of Jesus,
.... and for the word of God,
...... and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
........ neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
.......... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
.. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
.. on such the second death hath no power,
.... but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
...... and shall reign with Him a thousand years.'
(Rev 20:4-6)

* Those beheaded for the for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, are those seen by John in Revelation 6:9-10. here in Revelation 20:4-6 we see that their waiting is over - they have had their part in the first resurrection:-

'And when he had opened the fifth seal,
.. I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,
.... and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
.. How long, O Lord, holy and true,
.... dost thou not judge and avenge our blood
...... on them that dwell on the earth?'
(Rev 6:9-10)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes! There are/were two bodily resurrections. The one that took place immediately during the Resurrection of Christ, and that which is upon His Glorious return from Heaven, in flaming FIRE.
Mat. 27[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[52] And the graves were opened; and many [not all of the] bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

1 Thes. 4:[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There is NO resurrection of the unsaved wicked!
The wicked dead, and those who are alive in their flesh only, having not the Holy Spirit, will be destroyed in the lake of fire, caused by Christ's Presence of Eternal Fire! The unsaved will never live again!!
People who are without the Holy Spirit can NEVER be resurrected!! EVER!!!
Romans 8:9

Hence, NO MORE DEATH!!
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; 2 Peter 3:10-12

 

[charity]

Hello again,

There is a resurrection for 'the church which is His body the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.'(Ephesians 1:22-23), which Paul came to hope for, and expressed in Philippians 3:11: the word translated, 'resurrection' used there being different from that used elsewhere:- Gr. 'exanastasis'):-

'Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss
.. for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:
.... for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,
...... and do count them but dung,
........ that I may win Christ,
.......... And be found in him,
............ not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
.............. but that which is through the faith of Christ,
................ the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know Him,
.. and the power of His resurrection,
.... and the fellowship of his sufferings,
...... being made conformable unto His death;
........ If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. (exanastasis)
Not as though I had already attained,
.. either were already perfect:
.... but I follow after,
...... if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended:
.. but this one thing I do,
.... forgetting those things which are behind,
...... and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
........ I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.'
(Php 3:8-14)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

* Paul's later epistles:- Ephesians, Philippians, Colossions, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon.

 

[charity]

Yes! There are/were two bodily resurrections. The one that took place immediately during the Resurrection of Christ, and that which is upon His Glorious return from Heaven, in flaming FIRE.
Mat. 27[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[52] And the graves were opened; and many [not all of the] bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

1 Thes. 4:[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There is NO resurrection of the unsaved wicked!
The wicked dead, and those who are alive in their flesh only, having not the Holy Spirit, will be destroyed in the lake of fire, caused by Christ's Presence of Eternal Fire! The unsaved will never live again!!
People who are without the Holy Spirit can NEVER be resurrected!! EVER!!!
Romans 8:9

Hence, NO MORE DEATH!!
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; 2 Peter 3:10-12

'Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;
and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened;
and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after His resurrection,
and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.'
Mat 27:50-53)

Hello @Earburner,

The words of 1 Corinthians 15:53, make clear that the Lord Jesus Christ was the firstfruits of them that slept: afterwards they that are Christ's at His coming. There is no mention of what took place at Matthew 27:50-53. In fact it is only recorded in Matthew, it is not recorded in the other Gospels. With such an event as this, would you not think it would be mentioned at least in one other place in Scripture? Could this have been a partial fulfilment of John 5:25.

'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
The hour is coming, and now is,
when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God:
and they that hear shall live.'
(Joh 5:25)

Personally, I wonder if these 'saints' were awakened to natural life, as Lazarus was, and that they would, like him, in due time die again: but I have no confirmation of this, so it has to be left there, as a thought of mine only. All we know is that they went into Jerusalem and appeared unto many. Nothing is said about them ascending into heaven. In fact John said,

'And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but He that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven.'
(Joh 3:13)

The Lord Jesus Christ was at least 40 days upon the earth after His resurrection, prior to His final ascension into Heaven.
If Israel had repented and received Him as their Messiah during the 40 years of the Acts period, then He would have returned (Acts 3:18-21), and those who were awakened as described in Matthew 27, could well have been among those who would have risen to meet their Lord in the air, as spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. But that repentance did not come, as God foreknew, so it awaits a future day.

* All of mankind will be raised to judgement, for all have to stand before the judgement seat of Christ: but for the believer in Christ Jesus there will be no condemnation.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Earburner]

'Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;
and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened;
and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after His resurrection,
and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.'
Mat 27:50-53)

Hello @Earburner,

1. The words of 1 Corinthians 15:53, make clear that the Lord Jesus Christ was the firstfruits of them that slept: afterwards they that are Christ's at His coming.

2. There is no mention of what took place at Matthew 27:50-53.

3. Personally, I wonder if these 'saints' were awakened to life, as Lazarus was, but that they would, like him, in due time die again:
4. but I have no confirmation of this, so it has to be left there, as a thought of mine only. All we know is that they went into Jerusalem and appeared unto many.

5. The Lord Jesus Christ was at least 40 days upon the earth after His resurrection, prior to His final ascension into Heaven.
6. If Israel had repented and received Him as their Messiah during the 40 years of the Acts period, then He would have returned (Acts 3:18-21), and those who were awakened as described in Matthew 27, could well have been among those who would have risen to meet their Lord in the air, as spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. But that repentance did not come, as God foreknew, so it awaits a future day.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you for your reply.
1. Those "first fruits", spoken of them that slept, is definitely speaking of Israel of faith. They had been dead for many years, HAVING NOT received "the promise" of the Gift of the Holy Spirit, the vehicle of Eternal Life. Much of Christianity is in error concerning that issue.
Please remember that without the shedding of Christ's Blood, there is no remission (forgiveness/removal) of sin.
Therefore, all of Israel, who died in faith, were still waiting for the Promise of the Gift of Eternal Life, aka the Holy Spirit.

Prior to Pentecost, the Holy Spirit could NOT be permanently given to anyone.
So then, did they also receive the H/S in the Day of Pentecost? YES! But at that time, only those who died as martyrs.
It is revealed in KJV- Revelation 6:9-11

All others, who were Israel of faith, will be included in the "great multitude", King David being one of them. If you recall, David wasn't a martyr, and his unopened grave site is still with us to this day!
Acts 2:29, 34.
2. KJV- Revelation 6:9-11 is the reality of what took place on Pentecost for all of Israel who died as a martyr. "White Robes" is symbolic of the Holy Spirit.
3. No, they were awakened martyrs, and were resurrected in the time of Jesus' Resurrection. However, as shown in Rev. 6, they are resting, "asleep in Jesus", but now with the Gift of the Holy Spirit, aka Eternal life.
4. Yes, dead for years, and now after Jesus' Resurrection, they were risen from their graves and walking around, being visibly seen by others.

 

[Earburner]

5. Yes! Unfortunately, we have no record of where those resurrected saints went. But i dare say that they were not resurrected back into their old flesh and blood.
6. I cannot deny that there was a resurrection in Mat. 27. And most assuredly, I also can't call it a resuscitation either.

 

[Earburner]

You quoted John 3:13, as if to say that no one can ascend into Heaven AFTER Christ's Resurrection, when in reality that verse speaks of the time of when Jesus spoke it, which was when He was among us as flesh and blood, before His Glorification into New and Immortal Life.
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

'It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body.
(1 Corinthians 15:44)

Hello @BARNEY BRIGHT,

Your response brings up several different points which could be discussed.
However, in relation to the moment when death will be swallowed up in victory, which is when this mortal shall put on immortality, and when corruption shall put on incorruption: that applies to everyone who is Christ's. For it is at the moment of the believers resurrection from the dead that this transformation from the natural to the spiritual will take place.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I believe those who are resurrected to heaven applies only to the anointed. These anointed are the ones who will get a resurrection like Jesus who when resurrected received immortality and inherited incorruption.These are the ones who will be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom that Jesus is king of. These anointed along with their Lord and king Jesus are the ones who will rule over Earth. I don't believe they will rule over an empty Earth. I also haven't found a scripture that says the planet Earth will be destroyed. Every time when people quote a Scripture to me about what they say proves planet Earth will be destroyed, that scripture that they quote is speaking about a world of wicked mankind being destroyed, not the planet itself.
Also I've discovered in the scriptures that it's always been Jehovah God will for the planet Earth to be inhabited. So since there will be those who will be bought from mankind and be resurrected with a resurrection like Jesus and receive immortality as he did and inherit incorruption as he did and be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom ruling over the planet Earth, I believe that means there will be billions resurrected back on planet Earth who will receive eternal life and that these anointed along with their Lord and King Jesus will rule over theses who are resurrected back on paradise Earth.

 

[Earburner]

No one can deny that Jesus Himself IS "the First Resurrection" .
"Blessed and holy is that hath part in the first resurrection..."
Are you "born again"?
If so, are you not now a "partaker of the divine nature (His)"?
If so, then you are a participant in HIS Resurrection, who is the "First".

 

[Earburner]

^Edit: ...is he that hath part

 

[Earburner]

I believe those who are resurrected to heaven applies only to the anointed. These anointed are the ones who will get a resurrection like Jesus who when resurrected received immortality and inherited incorruption.These are the ones who will be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom that Jesus is king of. These anointed along with their Lord and king Jesus are the ones who will rule over Earth. I don't believe they will rule over an empty Earth. I also haven't found a scripture that says the planet Earth will be destroyed. Every time when people quote a Scripture to me about what they say proves planet Earth will be destroyed, that scripture that they quote is speaking about a world of wicked mankind being destroyed, not the planet itself.
Also I've discovered in the scriptures that it's always been Jehovah God will for the planet Earth to be inhabited. So since there will be those who will be bought from mankind and be resurrected with a resurrection like Jesus and receive immortality as he did and inherit incorruption as he did and be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom ruling over the planet Earth, I believe that means there will be billions resurrected back on planet Earth who will receive eternal life and that these anointed along with their Lord and King Jesus will rule over theses who are resurrected back on paradise Earth.

But aren't we now kings and priests UNTO GOD now??
Rev. 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Please notice that John was speaking in the present tense of that which is done by Christ for all born again Christians NOW, while in their fleshly lives here and now!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

But aren't we now kings and priests UNTO GOD now??
Rev. 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Please notice that John was speaking in the present tense of that which is done by Christ for all born again Christians NOW, while in their fleshly lives here and now!

Honestly I don't believe myself to be one of the anointed. When the New testament, Matthew through Revelations was written, God through his Only Begotten Son Jesus, inspired these scriptures to be written by those who were the anointed back then. So when the Apostle John was used to write Revelations which would include the scriptures you quoted he was speaking to the anointed like him, because every true believer back then was an anointed Christian. Also there is a remnant of the anointed on earth today and yes those scriptures you quoted apply to them as well, but they don't apply to all Christians on Earth today. Like I said there is a remnant of the anointed on Earth today but most Christians on Earth today are of the earthly class. Those who will not be in heaven but will be subjects of the kingdom living on a paradise Earth.

 

[Earburner]

The word "priest" (unto God) and its meaning from the Strongs:
Word: iereuj

Pronounce: hee-er-yooce'

Strongs Number: G2409

Orig: from 2413; a priest (literally or figuratively):--(high) priest. G2413

Use: TDNT-3:257,349 Noun Masculine

Heb Strong: H3547 H3549

1. 
   1) a priest, one who offers sacrifices and in general in busied with sacred rites
   1a) referring to priests of Gentiles or the Jews,
   2) metaph. of Christians, because, purified by the blood of Christ and brought into close intercourse with God, they devote their life to him alone and to Christ