Defending the Godhead (Trinity) & the Divine Nature of Christ

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Bible Highlighter

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I suppose you enjoy putting labels on people you disagree with, but I think you will find there is just one God. Keep in mind, one of the things Jesus was trying to do was set an example for us. He couldn't, therefore, say, "I am God."

You said I enjoy putting labels on people. No. I don’t. I only do so in order to warn others about false beliefs that are not found in God’s Word. Then I use Scripture to back the truth of what the Bible says to refute that false belief. Are there not any false beliefs out there that you are strongly against?
 

Bible Highlighter

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Nothing wrong with what you are saying, just dig a little deeper into the scriptures.

He expressed a belief in Modalism (of which I am intimately familiar with) and he never corrected me that is not what he believed. Anyways, Modalism is the false belief that there are no distinct persons in the Godhead or Trinity. Meaning, the Father did not send the Son; He was only sending Himself under a different name. In Modalism: Jesus prayed to Himself and Jesus did not pray to God the Father. John 1:1 says the Word was WITH God. The Word WAS God. How can the Word (Who is God) be WITH GOD if Modalism is true? It makes no sense. How can one blaspheme the Holy Spirit and never be forgiven and yet this is not the Son? This again does not make sense in Modalism because Modalism is saying there are no distinct persons in the Godhead or Trinity. Yes, they all exist together as one God, but there are distinctions in the Godhead or Trinity. The Father is not the Son, and vise versa. Jesus told the disciples that He would send ANOTHER COMFORTER. He did not say He was going to send Himself under a different name. Modalism is simply confusion.
 

Johann

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He expressed a belief in Modalism (of which I am intimately familiar with) and he never corrected me that is not what he believed. Anyways, Modalism is the false belief that there are no distinct persons in the Godhead or Trinity. Meaning, the Father did not send the Son; He was only sending Himself under a different name. In Modalism: Jesus prayed to Himself and Jesus did not pray to God the Father. John 1:1 says the Word was WITH God. The Word WAS God. How can the Word (Who is God) be WITH GOD if Modalism is true? It makes no sense. How can one blaspheme the Holy Spirit and never be forgiven and yet this is not the Son? This again does not make sense in Modalism because Modalism is saying there are no distinct persons in the Godhead or Trinity. Yes, they all exist together as one God, but there are distinctions in the Godhead or Trinity. The Father is not the Son, and vise versa. Jesus told the disciples that He would send ANOTHER COMFORTER. He did not say He was going to send Himself under a different name. Modalism is simply confusion.

Don't know what Modalism is.


Rom 15:14 I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, brimming with knowledge, and able to instruct one another.
Rom 15:15 However, I have written you a bold reminder on some points, because of the grace God has given me
Rom 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Rom 15:17 Therefore I exult in Christ Jesus in my service to God.


1Co 4:13 when we are slandered, we answer gently. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.
1Co 4:14 I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children.
1Co 4:15 Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
1Co 4:16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.


Eph 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.


Col 3:15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.
Col 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


1Th 5:15 Make sure that no one repays evil for evil. Always pursue what is good for one another and for all people.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice at all times.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 Give thanks in every circumstance, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
1Th 5:19 Do not extinguish the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt,
1Th 5:21 but test all things. Hold fast to what is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from every form of evil.
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


2Th 3:13 But as for you, brothers, do not grow weary in well-doing.
2Th 3:14 Take note of anyone who does not obey the instructions we have given in this letter. Do not associate with him, so that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.


Tit 3:10 Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition,
Tit 3:11 knowing that such a man is corrupt and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Just to encourage
 

Bob Estey

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It does not matter what you think. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. It matters what the Bible says. I presented a fool proof case that demolishes Modalism and you have given no logical and reasonable answers to explain why your belief is true in light of what I said with Scripture.
There is just one God.
 

Bob Estey

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Again, lets deal with John 1:1.

John 1:1 says the Word WAS God.
John 1:1 says the Word was WITH God.
WITH God.
WITH God.
WITH God.
This cannot make any sense if Modalism is true.
How can God (the Word) be WITH God and yet also be God if Modalism is true?
It makes no sense.
Jesus is God in flesh, Emmanuel (God with us - Matthew 1:23).
 

Bob Estey

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You said I enjoy putting labels on people. No. I don’t. I only do so in order to warn others about false beliefs that are not found in God’s Word. Then I use Scripture to back the truth of what the Bible says to refute that false belief. Are there not any false beliefs out there that you are strongly against?
If you don't enjoy it, why do you do it?
 

Johann

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But I think I have the correct understanding of the Trinity. I do not believe God is three different souls.
Bob, listen to me carefully, we are brothers in Christ Jesus, whether I believe in the Triune Godhead and you in YHVH, we still worship Yeshua HaMashiach, we believe in His death and resurrection and glorious ascension

1Co 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm.
1Co 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that He appeared to Cephas and then to the Twelve.
1Co 15:6 After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth.

Do you believe the scriptures? Is your faith/trust firmly in Christ?
 

Bible Highlighter

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Don't know what Modalism is.


Rom 15:14 I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, brimming with knowledge, and able to instruct one another.
Rom 15:15 However, I have written you a bold reminder on some points, because of the grace God has given me
Rom 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Rom 15:17 Therefore I exult in Christ Jesus in my service to God.


1Co 4:13 when we are slandered, we answer gently. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.
1Co 4:14 I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children.
1Co 4:15 Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
1Co 4:16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.


Eph 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.


Col 3:15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.
Col 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


1Th 5:15 Make sure that no one repays evil for evil. Always pursue what is good for one another and for all people.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice at all times.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 Give thanks in every circumstance, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
1Th 5:19 Do not extinguish the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt,
1Th 5:21 but test all things. Hold fast to what is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from every form of evil.
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


2Th 3:13 But as for you, brothers, do not grow weary in well-doing.
2Th 3:14 Take note of anyone who does not obey the instructions we have given in this letter. Do not associate with him, so that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.


Tit 3:10 Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition,
Tit 3:11 knowing that such a man is corrupt and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Just to encourage

So you are saying I am divisive because I am exposing false teaching? You said you don’t know what Modalism is. Yet, I told you what it is. Perhaps you simply don’t understand it?

Here is on article explaining it.

What Is Modalism? - One Minute Apologist
(Note: I agree with this article on that Modalism is unbiblical. That does not mean I agree with everything this author or this website says).
 

Bible Highlighter

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But I think I have the correct understanding of the Trinity. I do not believe God is three different souls.

The different persons all act in harmony as one God as one soul. They don’t disagree with each other because they are all one God.
But listen to Jesus. He was not talking in a Modalist way when talking with God the Father here:

Matthew 26:39 says,
“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

Jesus desired for the cup to pass from Him, but He ultimately knew that He had to do as the Father will’s and not as He willed. This showed a distinction (or difference) in wills between the Father and the Son. Jesus was limited in knowledge during His time on Earth, and He had His desire but knew He had to ultimately do the desire of His Father. This really again does not make any sense in Modalism. There are two wills going on here. Therefore, Modalism does not compute. It is on a crash course to self destruction.
 

Bob Estey

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Bob, listen to me carefully, we are brothers in Christ Jesus, whether I believe in the Triune Godhead and you in YHVH, we still worship Yeshua HaMashiach, we believe in His death and resurrection and glorious ascension

1Co 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm.
1Co 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that He appeared to Cephas and then to the Twelve.
1Co 15:6 After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth.

Do you believe the scriptures? Is your faith/trust firmly in Christ?
I believe in Jesus Christ, and I don't think the Bible lies.
 

Bob Estey

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The different persons all act in harmony as one God as one soul. They don’t disagree with each other because they are all one God.
But listen to Jesus. He was not talking in a Modalist way when talking with God the Father here:

Matthew 26:39 says,
“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

Jesus desired for the cup to pass from Him, but He ultimately knew that He had to do as the Father will’s and not as He willed. This showed a distinction (or difference) in wills between the Father and the Son. Jesus was limited in knowledge during His time on Earth, and He had His desire but knew He had to ultimately do the desire of His Father. This really again does not make any sense in Modalism. There are two wills going on here. Therefore, Modalism does not compute. It is on a crash course to self destruction.
One soul is one soul. Three souls are three souls.
 

Bible Highlighter

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I think it is false to say there are three Gods.

Uh, no. I am not saying there are three separate gods like the Mormons falsely believe. The Trinity or Godhead is that the Lord our God is one God and yet He also exists as three distinct persons. One being… three persons. Both are true.
Think of it like those paper chain cuts that are holding hands. Think of sort of like Siamese twins. They can have one body and multiple heads. While God is not exactly presented in these ways (of course), it will hopefully show you that God is one and yet He is three. God is one spiritual spirit being and yet, there are distinctions of persons within that one being as a whole. It’s not a contradiction. Then again… I never had a problem accepting the Bible’s teaching on the Trinity or the Godhead because I already thought outside of the box. Modalism denies the Trinity (even though you say you believe in the Trinity). The Trinity or Godhead is defined as the Lord our God is one God and yet also exists as three distinct persons. One being, and yet three persons of that one being.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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One soul is one soul. Three souls are three souls.

We are actually made in the image of God, right?
We are three and yet one just like God.

Paul says to keep our soul, spirit, and body blameless until the coming of the Lord Jesus (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

We have a….

1. Soul (Mind, will, and emotions).
2. Spirit (Spiritual body; Note Paul says there is a natural body and a spiritual body).
3. Body (Physical body).

My body is not my spirit and my soul is not my body and yet they are all one together. Think. God is the same way.
The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father, etcetera, and yet with the Holy Spirit they are all one God.
 
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