Defending the Trinity

[Purity]

That is exactly how the Enemy (Satan) speaks and works; by reversing the very points he is guilty of!

It is "speaking" to your post; interestingly, you do not answer the points made by these eminent men?

But a JW does not use the same documents!

Floyd.

Your posting reminds me of another toxic poster who once belonged to this forum and another; his name was ducky though he went by many names - he left in the end. He also was quick to call people the enemy and Satan.

Are you he?

 

[Floyd]

Your posting reminds me of another toxic poster who once belonged to this forum and another; his name was ducky though he went by many names - he left in the end. He also was quick to call people the enemy and Satan.

Are you he?

You are obviously on the run from the Word!

Can you answer the point made from scripture?

After all; you have for weeks been demanding "proof from the Word"!

Don't hold your breath regarding my departure (on second thoughts, please do). Joke.

When JWs come to my door; they get hard dealings (unless children are with them); and I always assure them of their doom; unless they trust Christ Jesus as Saviour.

I have seen JW children leave with quizzical expressions on their faces; compared with the shock they show when the encounter starts; it is shameful that your Groups have such callous regard for their young minds!

I know from an ex JW, that each area has a debriefing session upon returning the "home church"; which includes "records" on all the people who resist them at the door; and in some cases where they have been rattled by the householder; the "big guns" are sent in!

If you showed this zeal for the Truth we have tried to give you, you would be in good stead with our Lord; as it is; you are destined for "destruction" when you are judged at the "white throne" judgement (Rev.20:11); because, mark my words; that is your destiny, if you continue to deny Christ Jesus Messiah's Deity!!!

Try to cast off the indoctrination you have suffered and adopted!

Yes; you will lose many "friends" and even family; but you will gain freedom and joy beyond your present comprehension.

Surprising as it may seem to you; I shall remember you in my prayers!

Your talents and mental acuity can be a major tool for the Lord's work!

Should you become the Lord's man; please let me know; I would meet you next time in Melbourne.

Regards.

Floyd.

 

[justaname]

Yes, both the Israelites and the Brothers and Sisters at Corinth were drinking from the same Spiritual Rock - (God Words) Chrit himself drank of it also John 17:14

The Promised Son and his sacrifice would ratify all the spiritual types and antitypes including all the sacrifices under the Law. Romans 8:29

He was a promised Son in whom would be hid (placed) all the spiritual riches from God his Father.

Though Israel was baptised in Moses, God is His foreknowledge could, on account of the promised Son and his sacrifice ratify their faith and belief in His Holy Covenant - all things were reconciled in the Son.

Christ lives because he died - he did not pre-exist.

John 17:14 does not say what you imply. Being that Jesus was born of God and a woman He was never "of this world." Christ pre-existed.

Yes via the Holy Spirit born of a woman in the fallen and condemn line of Abraham and David without whom he could not have life.

Rom 1:1-3 Matt 1:1 etc etc.

Here you only point to Jesus' humanity. Nothing new, I fully admit the Lord came in the flesh.

Yes in the form of Logos and Holy Spirit descending upon Mary to cause conception - notice the word shall be (future tense) in both Luke 1 records and Isaiah's prophecies.

"He shall be great" (Luke 1:32)
"He was raised up out of the bowels of David 2 Sam 7:12
"Son of Man" as he represented mans sinful nature which he bore. Heb 2:7

So you admit the Logos preexisted...lets look to what Logos means.

33.100 λόγοςe, οῦ m: a title for Jesus in the Gospel of John as a reference to the content of God’s revelation and as a verbal echo of the use of the verbs meaning ‘to speak’ in Genesis 1 and in many utterances of the prophets—‘Word, Message.’ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν ‘the Word became a human being and lived among us’ Jn 1:14.

Lets look again to scripture to see what Paul moved in the Spirit by God says speaking of the Christ.

17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

This can also be translated "existed prior to." To research the Greek word for before...
67.17 πρόb; πρίν or πρὶν ἤ; ἄχρι οὗa: a point of time prior to another point of time—‘before, previous.’
πρόb: οἶδεν γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὧν χρείαν ἔχετε πρὸ τοῦ ὑμᾶς αἰτῆσαι αὐτόν ‘your Father knows what you need before you ask him’

Here it is clear Jesus is the Logos that preexisted and became flesh. The verses you presented speak to Jesus' incarnation.

Yes - he is the promised suffering servant who gave his life that all who manifest God like he did will have life Gal 5:24

It is good you admit this.

God can send anyone he pleases and raise up a prophet in the midst of his people at any stage throughout history. Jeremiah did not pre-exist but God Jer 1:5.

In this passage of the prophet it is speaking to God's foreknowledge, not to Jeremiah being sent or descending from heaven. Jesus descended and was sent by the Father. In such He has seen the Father. John 6:46
He can say this because of His unique preexistence with the Father.

Jesus was unique and a Son in that His Father was God and his Mary was a sinner.


....And it became flesh a dwelt amongst us because God (Yahweh) filled him with Grace and Truth Psalm 45:2

I know the One who pour grace into his lips and you are yet to discover the God of Israel the God of Jesus Christ

2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Repent and hear justname the truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ
Purity

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord...Blessed be our Lord Jesus the Christ through whom all things were made and in whom all things hold together...Blessed be the HolySpirit of God who indwells all who believe...One God forevermore...Amen

 

[Floyd]

justaname:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord...Blessed be our Lord Jesus the Christ through whom all things were made and in whom all things hold together...Blessed be the HolySpirit of God who indwells all who believe...One God forevermore...Amen

 

[Purity]

John 17:14 does not say what you imply. Being that Jesus was born of God and a woman He was never "of this world." Christ pre-existed.



Here you only point to Jesus' humanity. Nothing new, I fully admit the Lord came in the flesh.


So you admit the Logos preexisted...lets look to what Logos means.

33.100 λόγοςe, οῦ m: a title for Jesus in the Gospel of John as a reference to the content of God’s revelation and as a verbal echo of the use of the verbs meaning ‘to speak’ in Genesis 1 and in many utterances of the prophets—‘Word, Message.’ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν ‘the Word became a human being and lived among us’ Jn 1:14.

Lets look again to scripture to see what Paul moved in the Spirit by God says speaking of the Christ.

17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

This can also be translated "existed prior to." To research the Greek word for before...
67.17 πρόb; πρίν or πρὶν ἤ; ἄχρι οὗa: a point of time prior to another point of time—‘before, previous.’
πρόb: οἶδεν γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὧν χρείαν ἔχετε πρὸ τοῦ ὑμᾶς αἰτῆσαι αὐτόν ‘your Father knows what you need before you ask him’

Here it is clear Jesus is the Logos that preexisted and became flesh. The verses you presented speak to Jesus' incarnation.


It is good you admit this.


In this passage of the prophet it is speaking to God's foreknowledge, not to Jeremiah being sent or descending from heaven. Jesus descended and was sent by the Father. In such He has seen the Father. John 6:46
He can say this because of His unique preexistence with the Father.


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord...Blessed be our Lord Jesus the Christ through whom all things were made and in whom all things hold together...Blessed be the HolySpirit of God who indwells all who believe...One God forevermore...Amen

Nothing here presents any evidence for the pre-existence of Christ.
Its noted both you and Floyd believe Jesus has a God (creator) and a Father...
This is progress.

 

[justaname]

Nothing here presents any evidence for the pre-existence of Christ.
Its noted both you and Floyd believe Jesus has a God (creator) and a Father...
This is progress.

Apparently you have no desire to see truth even when it is presented plainly for you.

Logos is a title for Jesus in the Gospel of John... did you miss this part?

Just to keep things clear...there are various other instances where Christ's preexistence was presented where you have no recourse...like this one.

56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

It seems you attempt to make the case that Jesus needed to "become" the Christ...perhaps I am wrong in my assessment...but in either event for clarity:

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.


29 And He continued by questioning them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter *answered and *said to Him, “You are the Christ.”


Note here Peter did not say you will be the Christ...

 

[Purity]

Apparently you have no desire to see truth even when it is presented plainly for you.

Logos is a title for Jesus in the Gospel of John... did you miss this part?

Just to keep things clear...there are various other instances where Christ's preexistence was presented where you have no recourse...like this one.

56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

It seems you attempt to make the case that Jesus needed to "become" the Christ...perhaps I am wrong in my assessment...but in either event for clarity:

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.


29 And He continued by questioning them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter *answered and *said to Him, “You are the Christ.”


Note here Peter did not say you will be the Christ...

Yes the Messiah was promised as early as Gen 3:15 though we know he was in the Logos of God before the foundation of the earth as you were Rom 8:19

Know justaname, we are not God - just in case you were thinking of going there.

John 5:30 compare John 8:28

“Lifted Up The Son of Man”

Obvious reference to the crucifixion John 3:14; 12:32.

Here is a clear prediction:

• of the manner of his death
• their involvement in his rejection Acts 2:23 cp John 13:19
• that as a result, some would be converted Acts 2:36-37
• The “lifting up” would prove (v26):

(1) that he was “God manifest” in his total rejection of self to declare God’s righteousness
Rom 3:24-26

(2) RSV: “do nothing by my own authority” – his supreme sacrifice could not have come from
mere human sentiment John 5:19-23, 30; 7:16

(3) as “son of man” he is representative of all men John 12:31-33; Eph 3:4-6. Their question: “Who is this ‘son of man’?” John 12:34

The Christians here after so much learning in Nicean Christology still unwittingly ask the question - "Who is this Son of Man?"

And yet he confounds you all because you do not have ears to hear.

 

[justaname]

Yes the Messiah was promised as early as Gen 3:15 though we know he was in the Logos of God before the foundation of the earth as you were Rom 8:19

Know justaname, we are not God - just in case you were thinking of going there.

You are a funny fellow... :lol:

All jokes aside, you have lost the debate...

Again Jesus is the Logos of God and you agree the Logos preexisted the incarnation. No one denies the incarnation has a beginning, yet the Logos is eternal.

Christ is the rock from which those baptized into Moses drank their spiritual drink.

In Jesus' own words, before Abraham was born, I Am...explaining to the Jews He preexisted.

Jesus unlike the prophets was sent by the Father and descended from heaven. Only someone who exists can be sent and can descend.

Jesus has seen the Father and is from God as explained in the gospel of John.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. This explains the incarnation of Jesus the Christ. God with us...

Phillip if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.

Jesus accepts worship... none but God is to be worshipped.

Let Us create him in Our image... God from the beginning of scripture has described Himself as plural in nature.

God is fully revealed in the Son for He is the exact image of the invisible God, the exact imprint of His nature, in whom the fullness of Deity is pleased to dwell in bodily form. The Word is God, Jesus is the Word. Jesus is our Mighty God, the Eternal Father, the God of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Elijah. Jesus is David's Lord, the Lord of all.

The name of Jesus is above all names. This means Jesus' name is above YHWH or at the least equal to it. If the name of Jesus is equal to God then the equation can be written:

Jesus=God God=Jesus
or
Jesus equals God God equals Jesus

Father, Son, HolySpirit. One God, the God of Israel...Triune in revelation to those who are in Christ, those who have the indwelling HolySpirit of God.

Do not deny the Lord that purchased you, come out of Babylon.

 

[Purity]

You are a funny fellow... :lol:

All jokes aside, you have lost the debate...

Again Jesus is the Logos of God and you agree the Logos preexisted the incarnation. No one denies the incarnation has a beginning, yet the Logos is eternal.

.

Condescension followed by the doctrine of incarnation which has no Scriptural support.
See how you are forcing mans philosophies upon the Word rather than going directly to the truth.
By the way the debate isn't even off the ground as you have provided no Scriptural evidence except for your literal approach to 1 Cor 10 which is inexcusable for one who considers themselves spiritual.

Nowhere in the Bible in any passage, chapter, book does God speak of entering sinful flesh - the doctrine is abhorrent and a stench in His nostrils. It only reveals the believers has no idea of His righteousness which is clearly the case here.

Now there is nothing funny about that a person believing Jesus is fully God and fully sinful flesh...what worse is they believe in something which cannot be explained; to make God the author of confusion.

Truth is coming justaname - and the One who judges justly will manifest Himself through the Son in the earth once more - not as a lamb but a lion.

Come Lord Jesus.

 

[justaname]

Condescension followed by the doctrine of incarnation which has no Scriptural support.
See how you are forcing mans philosophies upon the Word rather than going directly to the truth.
By the way the debate isn't even off the ground as you have provided no Scriptural evidence except for your literal approach to 1 Cor 10 which is inexcusable for one who considers themselves spiritual.

Nowhere in the Bible in any passage, chapter, book does God speak of entering sinful flesh - the doctrine is abhorrent and a stench in His nostrils. It only reveals the believers has no idea of His righteousness which is clearly the case here.

Now there is nothing funny about that a person believing Jesus is fully God and fully sinful flesh...what worse is they believe in something which cannot be explained; to make God the author of confusion.

Truth is coming justaname - and the One who judges justly will manifest Himself through the Son in the earth once more - not as a lamb but a lion.

Come Lord Jesus.

I can see you are now in a place of full denial. I have provided scriptural evidence. Please re-read my last multiple posts (our entire dialogue).

The promise of the HolySpirit is Jesus' doctrine. God's HolySpirit makes His abode in those who believe.

Remember Jesus did not "become" the Christ, Jesus is the Christ upon incarnation as Peter's confession reveals. Also the Christ or Logos (another name for the Christ) preexisted. You affirm the Logos preexisting, I have proven Jesus is the Logos.

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

In response to your Ben Adam sidebar, note Jesus is also Ben Elohim. You seem to conveniently forget this...
Admit your defeat...

 

[Purity]

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Yes I agree Paul is making reference to the post-resurrectional state of Jesus, in which he bears a glorified body.

If you read the following verse Col 2:10 then pop over to Heb 1:1-3 you will find out how this took place.

The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. Thus he became so far better than the angels as he has inherited a name superior to theirs.

Ok for the tenth time.

He became - tn Grk “having become.” This is part of the same sentence that extends from v. 1 through v. 4 in the Greek text
Not essence but the representation of the essence
Effulgence emanating from a glorious source
Sustained all things through His Fathers Word
Sins were purged in his own body - he was redeemed and saved
He sat down next to God a position inherited not previously his
A name also inherited
Now for the first time superior to the angels - again proving no pre-existence.

Who place the fullness of God in Jesus? Col 2:9

Phil 2:9,10,11 God (Yahweh) has highly exalted Jesus and bestowed upon him a name, divine nature, kingdom, angels, saints etc.

All this as a result of Jesus death and resurrection.

All of these things are dependant on Phil 2:8 - not a pre-existent son but an obedient son who died on the cross.

While I continue to preach 1 Cor 1:23 and you the Trinity from Nice it may be advisable for you to stop and consider who it is you are representing? From over here it's Athanasius of Alexandria.

Again Jesus is the Logos of God and you agree the Logos preexisted the incarnation. No one denies the incarnation has a beginning, yet the Logos is eternal.

Incarnation is the doctrine, which took classical shape under the influence of the controversies of the 4th-5th cents. Was formally defined at the Council of Chalcedon of 451. It was largely moulded by the diversity of traditions in the schools of Antioch and Alexandria, the one stressing the human aspects of the incarnate Christ, the other His Divinity.

Even wormwood would not question the validity of this historically proven fact.

Note how the doctrine of incarnation came about:

1. Took classical shape
2. During a time of controversies
3. Formally defined around a table of men
4. Moulded by a diversity of traditions

This justaname is what you put your confidence and trust in? A designed and formulated doctrine 450 years after the true Gospel was taught?

What's amazing bout this 1. You wont acknowledge this as fact though theologians do 2. You will ignore it because in denial you could not fathom your faith is built upon such precarious doctrines of men.

All I can hope for you is when the Master provides the truth you will be humble enough to discard all these notions and accept his true Sonship.

Purity

 

[Floyd]

I can see you are now in a place of full denial. I have provided scriptural evidence. Please re-read my last multiple posts (our entire dialogue).

The promise of the HolySpirit is Jesus' doctrine. God's HolySpirit makes His abode in those who believe.

Remember Jesus did not "become" the Christ, Jesus is the Christ upon incarnation as Peter's confession reveals. Also the Christ or Logos (another name for the Christ) preexisted. You affirm the Logos preexisting, I have proven Jesus is the Logos.

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

In response to your Ben Adam sidebar, note Jesus is also Ben Elohim. You seem to conveniently forget this...
Admit your defeat...

With this one jusaname; and JWs generally, you will have a long wait for them to admit defeat!
Good try though; but we had already been through the hoops.
JWs in general will not see Truth until the Lord returns (they are worshipping "another jesus"; one of those that our Lord warn of! They are genuinely blinded!
We have to remember that they exist in a fear based system, which grips them as only Satan can!
That's probably why Purity in particular held on to his anonymity as long as he could; he knew we would not entertain his rubbish otherwise!
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

Floyd, the issue you have is post 331 stands against justaname on two fronts.

1. Col 2:9 is speaking of Jesus' glorified state post resurrection
2. Alexandrian philosophy is the root of their faith and not the Holy Writ.

Lets see how they/you deal with the facts.
Purity

p.s in your ignorance you assumed I was a JW, I am not - rather funny really.

 

[Floyd]

Floyd, the issue you have is post 331 stands against justaname on two fronts.

1. Col 2:9 is speaking of Jesus' glorified state post resurrection
2. Alexandrian philosophy is the root of their faith and not the Holy Writ.

Lets see how they/you deal with the facts.
Purity

p.s in your ignorance you assumed I was a JW, I am not - rather funny really.

Ahh, but you hide behind a cloak of secrecy re your affiliations; and did not deny your JW status over a period of time.
In my opinion whether JW, extreme Calvinist, or nothing at all, you are trouble, and an heretic of the worst kind; which despite your protestations; makes you a trouble maker.
You are not honest in any of your communications!
Your denial of Christ Jesus Deity is your condemnation!
You worship and promote a "false jesus"; one of those that our Lord warned of; of which there are now many ; all of them of one source, and with one agenda; falsehood; and the disturbance of the weak in faith and understanding!

Satan's people: (Separate study)

Satan's Motivation: (Separate study)

Satan's origins; (Separate study)

Floyd.

 

[Purity]

Ahh, but you hide behind a cloak of secrecy re your affiliations; and did not deny your JW status over a period of time.
In my opinion whether JW, extreme Calvinist, or nothing at all, you are trouble, and an heretic of the worst kind; which despite your protestations; makes you a trouble maker.
You are not honest in any of your communications!
Your denial of Christ Jesus Deity is your condemnation!
You worship and promote a "false jesus"; one of those that our Lord warned of; of which there are now many ; all of them of one source, and with one agenda; falsehood; and the disturbance of the weak in faith and understanding!

Satan's Motivation: (Separate study)

Satan's origins; (Separate study)

Floyd.

A devils rant?

You are so foolish to believe in such mystical notions - soon you will be wanting to call me a witch and burn me at the stake.

Be at peace Floyd and don't allow 4000 years of mythology cloud you judgement.
Return the Word and discard all your ungodly notions...they pollute your soul and make you very uninteresting.
Purity

 

[Floyd]

A devils rant?

You are so foolish to believe in such mystical notions - soon you will be wanting to call me a witch and burn me at the stake.

Be at peace Floyd and don't allow 4000 years of mythology cloud you judgement.
Return the Word and discard all your ungodly notions...they pollute your soul and make you very uninteresting.
Purity

Satan's people: (Separate study)

Funny; I thought you were a man; they were the majority of the so-called witches who were burned at the stake (totally unjustifiably).

However, you are still trouble, and in trouble with the "Great Judge", come the "white throne" judgement

Interesting that you removed the above link; don't you want people to know you?

I also found it of significance that early in the encounter, you defended Satan, as well as denying Christ Jesus' Deity.

No defence for you I'm afraid!



[SIZE=26pt]Satan’s people: (Rev. 14;9-12).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]It is not an exaggeration to say this is probably the most profound warning in the whole of Scripture, which is delivered by the third angel. ([/SIZE]We must remember that these messengers are being heard by all mankind, verse 6[SIZE=14pt]!) The following warning given is so profoundly strong and uncompromising, that most readers shrink from accepting its clear message. However, we know that all Scripture is from the Holy Spirit (2 Tim. 3:16.) The severity of the warning does not at first glance seem to accord with The Almighty God of Love. However; when properly and prayerfully perceived, it becomes clear that even at this extreme stage of evil (adherence to Satan,) that has by then been reached, merciful Jehovah Zabeoth has given a [/SIZE]last warning to the people of earth[SIZE=14pt]. After that warning, there is no way of escape! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]At this present moment in time it is very easy for people to escape future judgment and damnation, by accepting in Truth in their hearts (innermost being,) that Jesus Christ died for their sin, on The Cross, at Calvary, outside the walls of Jerusalem, approx. 2000 years ago, but that acceptance of Jesus and His sacrifice must be sincere, and not just a verbal comment![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]That sacrifice, which is acceptable to Jehovah God, IS THE ULTIMATE, BECAUSE CHRIST ON THE CROSS WAS GOD INCARNATE! Once this offered gift of salvation (being made whole) is removed, the way to Salvation and God becomes much harder, as is being shown in Rev.14. Once the warning of V.9-12 are given there are only TWO OPTIONS open to mankind.
1) Be for Jehovah Zebaoth and Christ;
2) Serve Satan, receive his mark and worship him.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Once the second option is taken men and women will be seen as they truly are for the first time (tares,) with no subterfuge, disguise or other ways of covering their true identity. They are children of Satan, and TOTALLY unredeemable, and will receive the same punishment reserved for Satan and his angels eventually. As one third of Heaven’s angels fall under the guile, lies and deceit of Satan, so will countless human beings. The torment that they will have to endure for “an Age,” (v 11 translates correctly as an "Age time," not for "ever and ever" as per AV. Strongs number 165 has the statement "especially a Jewish Messianic period", which clearly points to the punishment being for the duration of the Millennial. That corresponds with Rev. 20:10 which shows that Satan and his are consigned to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone at the end of Millennial,) has turned many good men and women from studying these verses. They must be understood in the context of Satan's totally perverse rebellion against THE ONE TRUE LOVING GOD, whose purpose in the defeat of Satan is only to prove HIS GREAT LOVE for HIS created beings, (see notes in Revelationsmessage Chp 12:V.12 a) b) c,) and to deal with the "mystery of iniquity!" (2Thess. 2:7.)[/SIZE]

 

[justaname]

Purity,

I believe you to be a Mormon which is another cult, yet whether you are Mormon, Gnostic, or otherwise it is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is you are incorrect in your interpretation of the scriptures. (2Peter 3:16)

Your "becoming" idea is flawed. It is through Him all things are made (preexistent). Peter claims Jesus is the Christ. Jesus claims He is currently a King to Pilot. Jesus is born of God and woman (ancient claims of deity). The becoming you speak of is the becoming flesh. Divinity took on flesh. You have no revelation, you have misinterpreted and misapplied the scriptures.

I think you need to rethink your faith claims. Galatians 1:8 2Corinthians 11:4

Ignatius of Antioch "In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).

"...God Himself appearing in the form of a man, for the renewal of eternal life."( Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians 4:13)

From Justin Martyr "...He preexisted as the Son of theCreator of things, being God, and that He was born a man by the Virgin." (Dialogue With Trypho, 48 )

From Polycarp "O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever"


The Trinity is a Christian concept from the conception of Christianity.

 

[Purity]

Divinity took on flesh. .....

Its just not there is it justaname - many have sought in vain.

The Trinity is a Christian concept from the conception of Christianity.[/size]

Yes a concept it is and that is what it will remain until he comes to correct nearly 2000 years of apostate teaching.
Not long now - be patient.

From Justin Martyr .....
From Polycarp .......

From Jesus quoting from Deut 6:4

Jesus answered, "The first is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

When he said One - he meant One.

 

[justaname]

Its just not there is it justaname - many have sought in vain.


Yes a concept it is and that is what it will remain until he comes to correct nearly 2000 years of apostate teaching.
Not long now - be patient.

From Jesus quoting from Deut 6:4

Jesus answered, "The first is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

When he said One - he meant One.

But it is there...the fact you deny it does not invalidate it.

The Word was God...The Word (God) became flesh...

And Jesus also said "I and the Father are One"
When He said One He meant One.

 

[Purity]

Regarding the doctrine of incarnation:

"The Definition of incarnation was scarcely a solution; it only determined the limits to orthodoxy. Within these limits further refinements were added in the later patristic and medieval periods. Orthodox theologians held that the duality of natures entailed a duality of wills. They also emphasized that the Incarnation was an act of the whole Godhead, not of one Person acting independently." The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church

What you believe is not in the Bible its something which history has recorded as being formulated and refined; filtered through theologians and philosophers and its a process still at work today. Ironically in this forum, unlike others, I am yet to find a Trinitarian who can honestly state their faith has been founded upon the early beliefs of those EFC's who you just quoted.

In terms of your above quote where Jesus said "he and his Father were one"; Jesus also said John 17:22.

Does this mean all Gods children are God?

God manifestation is the key to the Bible and if you want to understand how God reveals himself through His children you only need to read your Bible.

You can add this post to http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19981-defending-the-trinity/?p=225278 which is still unanswered.

(By the way, good evening Wormwood 12:36am here in Melbourne...I trust you are comfortable there in the back?)