Democrat Catholics

[Brakelite]

Tell you what, next time I lie - point it out.
Good luck . .

A technique I have noticed over the years with Catholics on forums is their reluctance to genuinely engage. They often all a question, and when it is answered, there is no acknowledgement. If you persist, you get blocked. I do give you credit BoL for engaging more than your fellows in this forum. Mary engages, but has a very narrow track along which she refuses to deviate from. Scripture to her is meaningless because whatever the church says is authoritative over and above scripture.
I know the Knights of Columbus were formed with the noble sounding intention to refute lies regarding Catholicism. I get that. There are lies repeated throughout Christendom regarding Adventism. I think though as I read Catholic apologists whether the defense of "truth" has evolved into more a defense of revisionism... Particularly in regards to history. A "few bad popes" becomes a simple glitch, but the church itself is presumed to have always remained faithful, despite the radical changes and abominable practices those "few bad popes" brought into the church and encouraged. There is a profound lowering of benchmark standards when Catholics speak of their own history, but a exaltation of those benchmark standards when discussing the reformation. A blindness to their failings, or at least to the extent of them, but a penchant for maximizing the failings of others.

 

[Brakelite]

We ALL get accused of lying here.

The difference is that I don't

ALL of Europe was Catholic prior to the 16th century

 

[BreadOfLife]

ALL of Europe was Catholic prior to the 16th century

Problem with that statement??

 

[Jlentz]

Chatholcism was always a false religion. Not Christian organization at all. I list them with Buddha, Jehovah Witness and Mormons.

 

[BreadOfLife]

A technique I have noticed over the years with Catholics on forums is their reluctance to genuinely engage. They often all a question, and when it is answered, there is no acknowledgement. If you persist, you get blocked. I do give you credit BoL for engaging more than your fellows in this forum. Mary engages, but has a very narrow track along which she refuses to deviate from. Scripture to her is meaningless because whatever the church says is authoritative over and above scripture.
I know the Knights of Columbus were formed with the noble sounding intention to refute lies regarding Catholicism. I get that. There are lies repeated throughout Christendom regarding Adventism. I think though as I read Catholic apologists whether the defense of "truth" has evolved into more a defense of revisionism... Particularly in regards to history. A "few bad popes" becomes a simple glitch, but the church itself is presumed to have always remained faithful, despite the radical changes and abominable practices those "few bad popes" brought into the church and encouraged. There is a profound lowering of benchmark standards when Catholics speak of their own history, but a exaltation of those benchmark standards when discussing the reformation. A blindness to their failings, or at least to the extent of them, but a penchant for maximizing the failings of others.

A "Few bad Popes"? Certainly there were.

There were bad Apostles. Judas comes to mind, as Jesus Himself referred to him as a "devil" (John 6:71).
However - no matter how abhorrent the behavior of some of these bad Popes - the Holy Spirit did not allow them to TEACH error (John 16:12-15).

As to your comment in RED - I'm sure there are those who fit this description - but I certainly don't. I accept the Church's history - "bad guys" and all because we have learned from them. Besides, it's not Christ's CHURCH that is evil - but some of the men within it that were and still are. That is the same case in every Protestant denomination.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Chatholcism was always a false religion. Not Christian organization at all. I list them with Buddha, Jehovah Witness and Mormons.

That's because you're wither filled with hate - or you are simply ignorant of Scripture and history.
I'm betting that BOTH are true . . .

 

[Illuminator]

Whichever one happened to be Catholic at the time.
For example. The Spanish armada was an attempt by the Papacy to invade and take over Britain using Spain as a vehicle. So sad that so many monks and priests lost their lives and that the Pope lost so much money and prestige when his ships embraced the rocks on the Irish coast.
Another example. When England was protestant, the Papacy used her period there to attempt to overthrow the government. Remember the gunpowder plot? Guy Fawkes?

English Protestants have had a Catholic boogeyman to focus their hate on for centuries. Fawkes would have been the Osama bin Laden of Catholics, had he succeeded. I wouldn’t doubt it, in fact, if it were actually Divine Providence that prevented Fawkes from carrying out his conspired terrorist act in 1605...
...
So how shall a Catholic regard Guy Fawkes Day? Well, if you’re in England, I suppose you could enjoy the fireworks. But it should be understandable if this holiday of Protestant patriotism makes the Catholics nervous.

For the astute cultural observer, whoever and wherever you may be, it can be instructive to take a step back and marvel at our de-Christianized society’s contradictions. The Protestants wanted to be more Christian than the Catholics, and yet we’ve descended into an irreligious culture of hedonism and violence. Grievance victim culture is revered and lionized, but not if you’re a Catholic, in which case you’re demonized. The cultural left wants to vilify a Catholic rebel who tried to blow up the government, but in the same breath, those leftists will imitate the carnage of this enemy-turned-icon and do their best to pick up where Fawkes left off.

Until the day comes when there’s a parliamentary act in England to abolish Guy Fawkes Day, we shall ever be left with quite the vicious poetry to remind us of England’s messy national holiday.
How Should a Catholic 'Remember, Remember' Guy Fawkes Day? (onepeterfive.com)

 

[Jlentz]

That's because you're wither filled with hate - or you are simply ignorant of Scripture and history.
I'm betting that BOTH are true . . .

No. I understand the gospel.

 

[Jlentz]

That's because you're wither filled with hate - or you are simply ignorant of Scripture and history.
I'm betting that BOTH are true . . .

Catholicism even has history wrong. I can live with that,but not the twisting and lying about the scriptures.

 

[Illuminator]

Whichever one happened to be Catholic at the time.
For example. The Spanish armada was an attempt by the Papacy to invade and take over Britain using Spain as a vehicle. So sad that so many monks and priests lost their lives and that the Pope lost so much money and prestige when his ships embraced the rocks on the Irish coast.
Another example. When England was protestant, the Papacy used her period there to attempt to overthrow the government. Remember the gunpowder plot? Guy Fawkes?

So shall we play the victimhood game? Shall we blame Fawkes’s actions on the disenfranchisement and persecution of Catholics in 17th-century England?

After all, consider the long list of state-sanctioned executions of people who dared to consider themselves English Catholics. Consider the suffering and imprisonment of the English Recusants, who valiantly refused to abandon their religion in the face of popular scorn. And let us not forget the overarching English disdain for Catholicism, which bleeds into the cultural attitudes of even our present day.

In fact, among one group, so hated was the Church that Christ began that England’s anti-Catholicism simply wasn’t enough. A purer, more distilled form of Protestantism had to be crafted, and they even had to cross the Atlantic Ocean itself just to get away from Europe’s legacy of Christendom. On the shores of North America, their purity spiral would be free to run rampant, and these men would be unencumbered in their ongoing quest to rarefy their interpretation of Christianity, to the point of becoming Judaic and, in later centuries, Zionist. Such is the legacy of Puritanism. (the witch burnings in Massachusetts were not done by Catholics)

Yet, when it comes to England’s celebration of Guy Fawkes Day, I do not think down-to-earth, red-blooded Catholics will be satisfied with the idea of Fawkes being a martyr for a permanently aggrieved status. That course of action is neither productive nor useful.

One other way to reflect upon and consider the public mind in regards to Guy Fawkes Day is to realize that the celebration of Fawkes’s demise is not, simply, a victory over terrorism. When the English burn effigies of Guy Fawkes and shoot off their fireworks, the general consensus is not a rejoicing of law and order over anarchy.

No, the celebration of Guy Fawkes Day has a distinctive anti-Catholic flavor about it. And really, its continued observance is an ongoing testament to anti-Catholic bigotry to this very day.

The English are not alone in celebrating such revolutionary benchmarks. The next most immediate holiday that comes to mind is Bastille Day in France, another occasion for fireworks that celebrates the bloody ouster of Christendom from public life – only Catholics probably call to mind the words “Reign of Terror.” Shortly after the storming of the Bastille, Catholic Frenchmen were torn apart in the streets, gunned down, and beheaded by guillotine. It was one of the most odious examples of anti-Christian hate in history, and the French celebrate this every year.

 

[Illuminator]

No. I understand the gospel.

1. The Gospel of life is at the heart of Jesus' message. Lovingly received day after day by the Church, it is to be preached with dauntless fidelity as "good news" to the people of every age and culture.

At the dawn of salvation, it is the Birth of a Child which is proclaimed as joyful news: "I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; for to you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord" (Lk 2:10-11). The source of this "great joy" is the Birth of the Saviour; but Christmas also reveals the full meaning of every human birth, and the joy which accompanies the Birth of the Messiah is thus seen to be the foundation and fulfilment of joy at every child born into the world (cf. Jn 16:21).

When he presents the heart of his redemptive mission, Jesus says: "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly" (Jn 10:10). In truth, he is referring to that "new" and "eternal" life which consists in communion with the Father, to which every person is freely called in the Son by the power of the Sanctifying Spirit. It is precisely in this "life" that all the aspects and stages of human life achieve their full significance.

The incomparable worth of the human person

2. Man is called to a fullness of life which far exceeds the dimensions of his earthly existence, because it consists in sharing the very life of God. The loftiness of this supernatural vocation reveals the greatness and the inestimable value of human life even in its temporal phase. Life in time, in fact, is the fundamental condition, the initial stage and an integral part of the entire unified process of human existence. It is a process which, unexpectedly and undeservedly, is enlightened by the promise and renewed by the gift of divine life, which will reach its full realization in eternity (cf. 1 Jn 3:1-2). At the same time, it is precisely this supernatural calling which highlights the relative character of each individual's earthly life. After all, life on earth is not an "ultimate" but a "penultimate" reality; even so, it remains a sacred reality entrusted to us, to be preserved with a sense of responsibility and brought to perfection in love and in the gift of ourselves to God and to our brothers and sisters.

The Church knows that this Gospel of life, which she has received from her Lord, 1 has a profound and persuasive echo in the heart of every person-believer and non-believer alike-because it marvellously fulfils all the heart's expectations while infinitely surpassing them. Even in the midst of difficulties and uncertainties, every person sincerely open to truth and goodness can, by the light of reason and the hidden action of grace, come to recognize in the natural law written in the heart (cf. Rom 2:14-15) the sacred value of human life from its very beginning until its end, and can affirm the right of every human being to have this primary good respected to the highest degree. Upon the recognition of this right, every human community and the political community itself are founded.

In a special way, believers in Christ must defend and promote this right, aware as they are of the wonderful truth recalled by the Second Vatican Council: "By his incarnation the Son of God has united himself in some fashion with every human being".2 This saving event reveals to humanity not only the boundless love of God who "so loved the world that he gave his only Son" (Jn 3:16), but also the incomparable value of every human person.

The Church, faithfully contemplating the mystery of the Redemption, acknowledges this value with ever new wonder.3 She feels called to proclaim to the people of all times this "Gospel", the source of invincible hope and true joy for every period of history. The Gospel of God's love for man, the Gospel of the dignity of the person and the Gospel of life are a single and indivisible Gospel.
Evangelium Vitae (25 March 1995) | John Paul II (vatican.va)

No. I understand the gospel.

Now you may understand the Gospel more fully, if you can lower your prejudice enough to re-read this post with an open mind.

 

[Jlentz]

1. The Gospel of life is at the heart of Jesus' message. Lovingly received day after day by the Church, it is to be preached with dauntless fidelity as "good news" to the people of every age and culture.

At the dawn of salvation, it is the Birth of a Child which is proclaimed as joyful news: "I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; for to you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord" (Lk 2:10-11). The source of this "great joy" is the Birth of the Saviour; but Christmas also reveals the full meaning of every human birth, and the joy which accompanies the Birth of the Messiah is thus seen to be the foundation and fulfilment of joy at every child born into the world (cf. Jn 16:21).

When he presents the heart of his redemptive mission, Jesus says: "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly" (Jn 10:10). In truth, he is referring to that "new" and "eternal" life which consists in communion with the Father, to which every person is freely called in the Son by the power of the Sanctifying Spirit. It is precisely in this "life" that all the aspects and stages of human life achieve their full significance.

The incomparable worth of the human person

2. Man is called to a fullness of life which far exceeds the dimensions of his earthly existence, because it consists in sharing the very life of God. The loftiness of this supernatural vocation reveals the greatness and the inestimable value of human life even in its temporal phase. Life in time, in fact, is the fundamental condition, the initial stage and an integral part of the entire unified process of human existence. It is a process which, unexpectedly and undeservedly, is enlightened by the promise and renewed by the gift of divine life, which will reach its full realization in eternity (cf. 1 Jn 3:1-2). At the same time, it is precisely this supernatural calling which highlights the relative character of each individual's earthly life. After all, life on earth is not an "ultimate" but a "penultimate" reality; even so, it remains a sacred reality entrusted to us, to be preserved with a sense of responsibility and brought to perfection in love and in the gift of ourselves to God and to our brothers and sisters.

The Church knows that this Gospel of life, which she has received from her Lord, 1 has a profound and persuasive echo in the heart of every person-believer and non-believer alike-because it marvellously fulfils all the heart's expectations while infinitely surpassing them. Even in the midst of difficulties and uncertainties, every person sincerely open to truth and goodness can, by the light of reason and the hidden action of grace, come to recognize in the natural law written in the heart (cf. Rom 2:14-15) the sacred value of human life from its very beginning until its end, and can affirm the right of every human being to have this primary good respected to the highest degree. Upon the recognition of this right, every human community and the political community itself are founded.

In a special way, believers in Christ must defend and promote this right, aware as they are of the wonderful truth recalled by the Second Vatican Council: "By his incarnation the Son of God has united himself in some fashion with every human being".2 This saving event reveals to humanity not only the boundless love of God who "so loved the world that he gave his only Son" (Jn 3:16), but also the incomparable value of every human person.

The Church, faithfully contemplating the mystery of the Redemption, acknowledges this value with ever new wonder.3 She feels called to proclaim to the people of all times this "Gospel", the source of invincible hope and true joy for every period of history. The Gospel of God's love for man, the Gospel of the dignity of the person and the Gospel of life are a single and indivisible Gospel.
Now you may understand the Gospel more fully, if you can lower your prejudice enough to re-read this post with an open mind.

No prejudices....just don't care for twisting of Scripture and preaching lies.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. I understand the gospel.

Then, perhaps you can explain your idiotic comment.
"Chatholcism was always a false religion. Not Christian organization at all. I list them with Buddha, Jehovah Witness and Mormons."

I'll wait right here for your response.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catholicism even has history wrong. I can live with that,but not the twisting and lying about the scriptures.

Then, please explain . . .

 

[Jlentz]

Then, perhaps you can explain your idiotic comment.
"Chatholcism was always a false religion. Not Christian organization at all. I list them with Buddha, Jehovah Witness and Mormons."

I'll wait right here for your response.[/QU
Nothing to explain. Just fact.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Peter was never in Rome. Those kids did not see a vision of Mary. Mary is not to be worshipped, she is dead. Mary was not born of immaculate conception. Bread and wine did not turn into Christ's blood and body. Catholics killed more people during inquisition than Hitler.
Catholicism goes which ever way government wants them to in order to stay in power, like changing names of statues like Mars and Opollo to names of saints. Priests forgiving sins.
My fingers are tired. Is that enough?

You're right - and that's why we DON'T worship Mary or anybody other than God.
IF that's what you believe - then you believe a lie.

As for your drivel about the statues - you've been reading too many of those wacky Jack Chick tracts.

Finally - as to Priests being given the power to forgive sins in Christ's name - that is purely Scriptural.
Time for a Bible lesson, son . . .

THREE times in the Gospels (Matt. 16:19, 18:18 and John 20:23), we read where Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins or to hold them bound. This is NOT a something that Jesus took lightly. In John 20:21-23, Jesus (who is God) breathes on the Apostles as he is giving them this power:
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament. In fact, there are only two times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:
The first is when he breathed life into Adam.
The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

Going back to John 20:21, ummmmmm, what is it that the Father "sent" Jesus to do that HE was now sending the Apostles to do?
Answer: To bring about the FORGIVENESS of sins . . .

YOUR turn.

 

[Jlentz]

I'm sorry...i don't have time for mindless dribble.

 

[Illuminator]

I'm sorry...i don't have time for mindless dribble.

But you have time to make mindless dribble without anything to back it up. Fortunately for you, the rules don't apply when attacking Catholicism. Your school yard taunts are stupid and immature. Off to the iggy bin you go.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Why are so many Democrat politicians Catholic?

Do you have any documented source that shows this to be a valid statement/question?

 

[Illuminator]

Do you have any documented source that shows this to be a valid statement/question?

Seventh Day Adventists have their own definition of a scholarly "documented source".

"Once upon a time—let’s say from the time of Franklin Roosevelt till the time of Lyndon Johnson—the Democratic Party was the clear party of choice for American Catholics. The party had a special concern for the urban working classes and for the children and grandchildren of immigrants; its social justice ideas were often very similar to the social justice ideas outlined in papal encyclicals such as Rerum Novarum and Quadrigessimo Anno; it was emphatically patriotic and, like the Vatican, emphatically anti-Communist; it was strong on military defense; and it did almost nothing to defy or to undermine Catholic moral values. It was a party that Catholics, at least Catholics of the kind that flourished in those long-ago days, could feel very comfortable with.

I myself was one of those Catholic Democrats. Born in 1938, the second year of FDR’s second term, I first voted for president in 1960, the year that represented the summit of Catholic satisfaction with the Democratic Party, since that was the year John Kennedy was elected president. I was elected as a Democrat to the Rhode Island Senate in 1980; in 1989-90 I was the Democratic Majority Leader of the Senate; and in 1992 I was the Democratic candidate (alas, a losing candidate) for the United States House of Representatives.

During my political career, despite my prominent position in the party, I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the new direction the national party had taken. Today I am worse than uncomfortable; I am downright distressed and disillusioned.

The Catholics of the United States have changed greatly since those far-off days of FDR and LBJ. They used to be, religiously speaking, a relatively homogeneous group, but they are now divided between what may be called “real Catholics” and “nominal Catholics.” By “real Catholics” I mean those who go to church every weekend, who actually believe the doctrines of the Church, and who make a serious effort (while not always succeeding) to let their lives be guided by the moral rules and moral values endorsed by the Church.

By “nominal Catholics” I mean those who are quite opposite. They rarely or never attend Mass, and they have a “pick and choose” attitude when it comes to faith and morals. They are Catholic in the sense that they were baptized Catholic and have not yet sent in a letter of resignation. And of course there are shades of gray between these two extremes: Catholics who may be called semi-real or semi-nominal.

If Catholics have changed over the last three or four decades, so has the Democratic Party “changed utterly” (to use the words of Yeats). From being a party that Catholics could feel very comfortable with, it has become a party that Catholics—at least “real Catholics”—feel profoundly uncomfortable with. Not to put too fine a point on it, the national Democratic Party has become an anti-Christian party.
read more here

Sister Deirdre Byrne, a surgeon and retired Army colonel who spoke at the 2020 Republican National Convention, said the ongoing political and cultural conflicts in the United States are not at root "between Republicans and Democrats" but "between the Devil, who is real, and Our Lord."

"This battle we face is not a battle between Republicans and the Democrats, it’s not conservatives or liberals, or left versus right,” said Byrne on Apr. 30. “This is a battle between the Devil, who is real, and Our Lord.”

Byrne, a member of the Little Workers of the Sacred Hearts, is the abbess of her community and she also works at a medical clinic in Washington, D.C. She made her remarks at an international pro-life conference sponsored by Heartbeat International, reported the National Catholic Register.

One of Sister Byrne's specialties is working with pregnant women who have taken the abortion pill and then changed their mind. The process can be reversed in many cases and the child saved.

In related remarks, Sister Byrne said, “We have to pray for the president, we have to pray for the [Speaker Nancy Pelosi], we have to pray for all these people, these politicians who are wanting to make the abortion pill over the counter so people will be able to take it like bubble gum or Tylenol."
read more here: Sister Byrne: ' | CNSNews

further reading: Fr. Hardon Archives - Abortion as Pagan Sacrifice