Did God Create Evil?

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speedyj1992

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You guys are hitting on some wonderful stuff in a great way - to throw my hat in the ring, here is a video I did that doesn't get to every single verse, but can still help you understand the core issue.


I promise, there are answers to these questions you guys have. It's best to answer them on a more personal level in your local communities, but this is a great start. Hope my video is able to help!
 

GodsGrace

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You guys are hitting on some wonderful stuff in a great way - to throw my hat in the ring, here is a video I did that doesn't get to every single verse, but can still help you understand the core issue.


I promise, there are answers to these questions you guys have. It's best to answer them on a more personal level in your local communities, but this is a great start. Hope my video is able to help!
Hi Speedy,
I don't think I've seen this thread. Not sure.

Just want to say that I stopped watching your video at 3:30 point.
Not because I didn't like it or agree with it, but because I DO agree with it.

There is no answer for where evil comes from.
If God created evil (or even calamity) then He is not a God of love and the New Testament is a lie.

If another God created evil then God is not God.
It would explain a lot though.

So we do have to do what you said... come to our own conclusion.
I've stopped thinking about it and just accept that it exists.

I'm trusting in the God I know and must believe HE is not the one that created evil. In the O.T. everything was attributed to God once He revealed Himself to the Hebrews, so some verses are in keeping with this.

I think you're the only person I know who has stated what you have.
 

aspen

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It appears that culpibility is mute. If evil has no source, how are people resposible?
 

GodsGrace

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It appears that culpibility is mute. If evil has no source, how are people resposible?
Aspen,
Why is it necessary for evil to have a source in order to NOT do evil?

I'm sorry, I didn't follow this thread.
Did you state where YOU think evil comes from?

If we know that God is the good "force"
and we know that there is an evil "force"
we still get to choose whom we will serve.
We are still responsible to choose the right force, the one we want to serve and spend eternity with.
Culpability still exists because we have free will to choose God.
 

GodsGrace

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@aspen

I'm sorry. I didn't explain myself properly.
Evil MUST have a source.
We don't know what it is.
But it must come from somewhere.
Everything else I said I meant.
(I think!)
 

Stranger

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It appears that culpibility is mute. If evil has no source, how are people resposible?

Evil is but the opposite of the will of God. Both angels and men can be responsible , depending on the direction they go.

Stranger
 

aspen

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Aspen,
Why is it necessary for evil to have a source in order to NOT do evil?

I'm sorry, I didn't follow this thread.
Did you state where YOU think evil comes from?

If we know that God is the good "force"
and we know that there is an evil "force"
we still get to choose whom we will serve.
We are still responsible to choose the right force, the one we want to serve and spend eternity with.
Culpability still exists because we have free will to choose God.

I believe evil was introduced by A&E in the Garden. It came from misusing the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Misuse of God’s Creation is evil, which is generated by sin (the act of misuse); evil is not a force and cannot exist without Good. Good stands by itself - it is not dependent on evil for its existence.

Dualism is an illusion, a false perception, resulting from the Fall. There is no evil created being or object in the universe, only the misuse of creation. We are culpable for misusing Gods good creation.

A&E were able to know Good before the Fall and consider evil, without actually ‘knowing’ or experiencing it. After the Fall, A&E became slaves to evil and therefore, incapable of doing good. They were cursed with a dualistic perception of the world - whatever benefited them was labeled as ‘good’ and whatever caused them pain was labeled, by them as ‘evil’. This is the fate of unredeemed humanity; Jesus was right, ‘only God really knows what is Good’.

Jesus saves us from this fate by forgiving us for misusing his creation and brings us back into a Garden relationship with Him. Like addicts, we are still tempted by our old slave master (false self/old man/ego/animal skin received in the garden), but we no longer have to follow - once again, we truly have freewill.
 

GodsGrace

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I believe evil was introduced by A&E in the Garden. It came from misusing the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Misuse of God’s Creation is evil, which is generated by sin (the act of misuse); evil is not a force and cannot exist without Good. Good stands by itself - it is not dependent on evil for its existence.

Dualism is an illusion, a false perception, resulting from the Fall. There is no evil created being or object in the universe, only the misuse of creation. We are culpable for misusing Gods good creation.

A&E were able to know Good before the Fall and consider evil, without actually ‘knowing’ or experiencing it. After the Fall, A&E became slaves to evil and therefore, incapable of doing good. They were cursed with a dualistic perception of the world - whatever benefited them was labeled as ‘good’ and whatever caused them pain was labeled, by them as ‘evil’. This is the fate of unredeemed humanity; Jesus was right, ‘only God really knows what is Good’.

Jesus saves us from this fate by forgiving us for misusing his creation and brings us back into a Garden relationship with Him. Like addicts, we are still tempted by our old slave master (false self/old man/ego/animal skin received in the garden), but we no longer have to follow - once again, we truly have freewill.
Agreed but for one thing.
We truly have free will when we obey God.
We are free to love and be our true selves, we can enjoy the nature God meant for us to have. Those who serve satan are slaves.

I also think I understand what you say about evil being the opposite of good. I can't think of it this way. Even in Catholicism evil is seen as a true force, not as an absence of good (which is what I believe you're saying).

If it were just an absence of good, what would be creating a hurricane?
Absence of good means the weather would not be so nice. It would be neutral. Hurricanes are infested with evil. They are not neutral. They cause death and harm.

I like your idea of A and E labeling things good and evil. I've never heard this before. But I think it goes deeper than this.

What or Who put the evil in the tree of the knowledge?
Why did A and E sin if concupisence did not exist yet?
Original sin did not exist yet, how did they sin?

You see, we'd never get to the bottom of it.
But please confirm...
Do you believe evil is a real force or the absence of good?
 

speedyj1992

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Hi Speedy,
I don't think I've seen this thread. Not sure.

Just want to say that I stopped watching your video at 3:30 point.
Not because I didn't like it or agree with it, but because I DO agree with it.

There is no answer for where evil comes from.
If God created evil (or even calamity) then He is not a God of love and the New Testament is a lie.

If another God created evil then God is not God.
It would explain a lot though.

So we do have to do what you said... come to our own conclusion.
I've stopped thinking about it and just accept that it exists.

I'm trusting in the God I know and must believe HE is not the one that created evil. In the O.T. everything was attributed to God once He revealed Himself to the Hebrews, so some verses are in keeping with this.

I think you're the only person I know who has stated what you have.

First, thank you for watching the video. With all due respect, Godsgrace (I feel so weird saying what I'm about to say to someone with THAT username) I think you missed the point of my video - I am NOT, in this video, addressing WHERE evil comes from (though I'd like to do a video on that). I'm talking about WHY evil has to exist in God's perfect plan, and it's only after the 3:30 mark that things get interesting. I would encourage you to keep watching and see how that helps, and subscribe so that when I post the video about the ORIGIN of evil, that you can hear what I have to say on that. Because I do have a specific answer that I think can help you, when that time comes.
 

GodsGrace

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First, thank you for watching the video. With all due respect, Godsgrace (I feel so weird saying what I'm about to say to someone with THAT username) I think you missed the point of my video - I am NOT, in this video, addressing WHERE evil comes from (though I'd like to do a video on that). I'm talking about WHY evil has to exist in God's perfect plan, and it's only after the 3:30 mark that things get interesting. I would encourage you to keep watching and see how that helps, and subscribe so that when I post the video about the ORIGIN of evil, that you can hear what I have to say on that. Because I do have a specific answer that I think can help you, when that time comes.
It's really late here.
But I do believe I've heard all the reasons.
It could be because we need to have a choice.
It could be because we appreciate good after we try the bad.
What else?
Will listen to it tomorrow and then will post.
For now it's
Bon Nuit...
 

aspen

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Agreed but for one thing.
We truly have free will when we obey God.
We are free to love and be our true selves, we can enjoy the nature God meant for us to have. Those who serve satan are slaves.

Indeed. The only time humanity had freewill was before the Fall and now, if we are in relationship with Christ.

I also think I understand what you say about evil being the opposite of good. I can't think of it this way. Even in Catholicism evil is seen as a true force, not as an absence of good (which is what I believe you're saying).

Evil is not the opposite of good. It is a broken or misused form of good. A broken glass is not the opposite of a functioning glass - it is a broken form.

If it were just an absence of good, what would be creating a hurricane?
Absence of good means the weather would not be so nice. It would be neutral. Hurricanes are infested with evil. They are not neutral. They cause death and harm.

Hurricanes are bad for humanity, but they are not bad, in and of themselves. Calling them bad is the same thing A&E started after the Fall - labeling God’s good creation in relation to ourselves - ‘hurricanes destroy our cities and kill people who remain in their path - therefore they are evil’

What or Who put the evil in the tree of the knowledge?

The tree was good. There was no evil in the tree or the fruit. We generated the evil by eating the fruit instead of using it for what God intented it to be used for.

Why did A and E sin if concupisence did not exist yet?

Concupisence is the desire to do good. If we are experiencing a vulnerable, loving relationship with God, like A&E were doing before the Fall, the concept of concupisence is moot. It would be like breathing air - we only long for air when we feel the pain of not getting enough. So i agree, it didnt exist pre-Fall. I am not sure about the relationship between the lack of concupisence and the compulsion to commit the first sin....

I tend to think A&E decided to experience sin rather than just understand it as a concept because it seemed mysterious and compelling. Here was a secret that God was keeping from them and they wanted to feel what it was like rather than just seeing it as a concept; much like experimenting with drugs, i suppose.

Original sin did not exist yet, how did they sin?

They knew that the fruit was not for eating. They knew that God intended it for other purposes. I have a sneaky suspicion that they knew, intellectually, that all creation could be misused. The incident with the Tree was simply the result of choosing a target for misuse. It didnt have to be the tree; the tree was not magic - it taught us nothing. In fact, it could have been named ‘The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, after the incident; sort of like a strench of highway that is notorious for accidents being labeled ‘Slaughter Alley’. Much of the lands in the OT were named for events that occured or promises made.

Do you believe evil is a real force or the absence of good?

I believe evil is the absence of, or misuse of Gods Good Creation. This is not my idea - Augustine taught it during his lifetime.
 

mjrhealth

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I believe evil was introduced by A&E in the Garden
Evil always existed, that why Gods angels fell, that why satan deceived Eve, if Evil did not exist prior, thee would be no satan to deceive Eve.
 

aspen

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Evil always existed, that why Gods angels fell, that why satan deceived Eve, if Evil did not exist prior, thee would be no satan to deceive Eve.

Introduced into human consciousness.
 

Stranger

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I believe evil was introduced by A&E in the Garden. It came from misusing the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Misuse of God’s Creation is evil, which is generated by sin (the act of misuse); evil is not a force and cannot exist without Good. Good stands by itself - it is not dependent on evil for its existence.

Dualism is an illusion, a false perception, resulting from the Fall. There is no evil created being or object in the universe, only the misuse of creation. We are culpable for misusing Gods good creation.

A&E were able to know Good before the Fall and consider evil, without actually ‘knowing’ or experiencing it. After the Fall, A&E became slaves to evil and therefore, incapable of doing good. They were cursed with a dualistic perception of the world - whatever benefited them was labeled as ‘good’ and whatever caused them pain was labeled, by them as ‘evil’. This is the fate of unredeemed humanity; Jesus was right, ‘only God really knows what is Good’.

Jesus saves us from this fate by forgiving us for misusing his creation and brings us back into a Garden relationship with Him. Like addicts, we are still tempted by our old slave master (false self/old man/ego/animal skin received in the garden), but we no longer have to follow - once again, we truly have freewill.

Satan fell before Adam and Eve fell. How can you say evil was introduced by Adam and Eve? Evil, the serpent, satan, the devil, was slithering in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Stranger
 
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aspen

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Satan fell before Adam and Eve fell. How can you say evil was introduced by Adam and Eve? Evil, the serpent, satan, the devil, was slithering in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Stranger

Introduced into human experience. Humanity knew evil in theory; they introduced it into human practice
 

FHII

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Wow. A six year old thread has been brought back from the dead!
 
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aspen

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So ???

What happened to teh man that went into the snake to deceive Eve, where did he come from???

So...i am telling you who came up with the theology - Augustine.

I have no idea what man your talking about. The story of the Fall includes Adam and Eve and a snake - no man entering a snake