Did God Create Evil?

[mjrhealth]

So...i am telling you who came up with the theology - Augustine.

Oh it was his idea and that became truth??? has to do with what...

 

[mjrhealth]

I have no idea what man your talking about. The story of the Fall includes Adam and Eve and a snake - no man entering a snake

wrong person...sry

 

[aspen]

Oh it was his idea and that became truth??? has to do with what...

You must be bored, mjr.....

 

[mjrhealth]

You must be bored, mjr.....

Nah, just have no what augustine has to do with teh topic,,,

 

[pia]

You must be bored, mjr...

This was in relation to someone who said that there are no spiritual creatures what so ever, so a question was posed to THAT person, where the 'man' came from who then ( by that persons definition ) spoke through the snake

 

[Netchaplain]

Definition for evil has two rudimentary meanings: sin, and adversity, and the Hebrew is ra'. It's obvious that in the context of Isa 45:7 is the same in Job 2:10--adversity!

Hebrew dictionary for evil: Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

 

[GodsGrace]

It's really late here.
But I do believe I've heard all the reasons.
It could be because we need to have a choice.
It could be because we appreciate good after we try the bad.
What else?
Will listen to it tomorrow and then will post.
For now it's
Bon Nuit...

I watched the video.
It does not give the answer.
Because there is no answer.
You said one of the two reasons I had picked.
Can't remember which...
Having a choice so there had to be evil
or appreciating the good.

I believe you went with having a choice.
Why would a loving God make ugly choices for us just so we could choose? IF this is correct, we're dealing with a God we do not really know.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, "Did God Create Evil?". yes, let the bible speak. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". well if God didn't make or create it, then it was not made or created.

peace in Christ

 

[GodsGrace]

Definition for evil has two rudimentary meanings: sin, and adversity, and the Hebrew is ra'. It's obvious that in the context of Isa 45:7 is the same in Job 2:10--adversity!

Hebrew dictionary for evil: Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Isn't satan the adversary?
The enemy.
Some here say that God created evil because of verses in the O.T.
If God created evil, I don't really care to serve that God.
IMO, and many that I've spoken to that should know, there is no answer for where evil comes from.

If somebody has it, I'd like to know.
But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[bbyrd009]

If somebody has it, I'd like to know.
But I'm not holding my breath.

what about

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

?

 

[bbyrd009]

there is no answer for where evil comes from.

separation?

 

[Richard_oti]

<snip>
If God created evil, I don't really care to serve that God.

So, even if "God" did not create "evil", he defined it as "evil".

Just as at creation according to the Pshat (plain and simple) reading of the text, darkness already existed.

<snip>

 

[GodsGrace]

what about

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

?

Whether it's translated evil or calamity, it's the same.
The O.T. persons believed that God, who had revealed Himself to them,
did everything, caused everything -- even what HE did not.

So do YOU believe God, Yahweh, created evil?
It's God who causes us to suffer so much?

 

[GodsGrace]

separation?

@aspen understands you, but I don't.
What do you mean by "separation"?

 

[GodsGrace]

So, even if "God" did not create "evil", he defined it as "evil".

Just as at creation according to the Pshat (plain and simple) reading of the text, darkness already existed.

<snip>

Are you saying the darkness was or represented evil?
Genesis 1:2

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed. The only time humanity had freewill was before the Fall and now, if we are in relationship with Christ.

Sorry, I lost this...
Agreed.

Evil is not the opposite of good. It is a broken or misused form of good. A broken glass is not the opposite of a functioning glass - it is a broken form.

I see what you mean about the glass.
I'm not sure I agree. It's not easy to speak about spiritual matter...
Let me ask you this:
Is the devil a real being?
Are there devil type fallen angels in hell and running around the earth?
IOW, I believe the devil is a real being. I believe all evil comes from Him.
I just don't understand why God allows it.
But I've stopped asking.
( although I'd LOVE to know why)

Hurricanes are bad for humanity, but they are not bad, in and of themselves. Calling them bad is the same thing A&E started after the Fall - labeling God’s good creation in relation to ourselves - ‘hurricanes destroy our cities and kill people who remain in their path - therefore they are evil’

I do believe hurricanes are evil.
They certainly are NOT created by God, who is all-good.
Even creation has been affected by sin.
Romans 8:19-22

The tree was good. There was no evil in the tree or the fruit. We generated the evil by eating the fruit instead of using it for what God intented it to be used for.

If there was no evil in the fruit, OK.
But HOW did Eve and Adam DISOBEY God?
That would have required for bad to already be present...

Concupisence is the desire to do good. If we are experiencing a vulnerable, loving relationship with God, like A&E were doing before the Fall, the concept of concupisence is moot. It would be like breathing air - we only long for air when we feel the pain of not getting enough. So i agree, it didnt exist pre-Fall. I am not sure about the relationship between the lack of concupisence and the compulsion to commit the first sin....

Concupisence is the desire to do bad. I'm sure you just misspoke.
Your not sure about how the first sin was committed because it cannot be explained...

I tend to think A&E decided to experience sin rather than just understand it as a concept because it seemed mysterious and compelling. Here was a secret that God was keeping from them and they wanted to feel what it was like rather than just seeing it as a concept; much like experimenting with drugs, i suppose.

This would go along with the idea that the apple looked good.
And satan telling them that God did not want them to become like Him.
Genesis 3:6
Genesis 3:5

They knew that the fruit was not for eating. They knew that God intended it for other purposes. I have a sneaky suspicion that they knew, intellectually, that all creation could be misused. The incident with the Tree was simply the result of choosing a target for misuse. It didnt have to be the tree; the tree was not magic - it taught us nothing. In fact, it could have been named ‘The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, after the incident; sort of like a strench of highway that is notorious for accidents being labeled ‘Slaughter Alley’. Much of the lands in the OT were named for events that occured or promises made.

Interesting idea.
Of course, the story of Adam and Eve WAS written after it happened.

I believe evil is the absence of, or misuse of Gods Good Creation. This is not my idea - Augustine taught it during his lifetime.

Augustine. I don't care for him. I rather dislike him.
Let me know if you believe satan is a real being...

 

[aspen]

Yes, Satan is a real being. I think of him as a warning for what we will become without Christ. I tend to think that many Christians over focus on Satan and assign more power and influence on him than he really has. He is incapable of a personal relationship with anyone - he lacks even an ounce of willingness for the vulnerability necessary to see living beings as anything more than an object rife for destruction.

What bothers you about Augustine?

And yes, i used the word concupisence incorrectly. I had to look it up and must of mispelled it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, Satan is a real being. I think of him as a warning for what we will become without Christ. I tend to think that many Christians over focus on Satan and assign more power and influence on him than he really has. He is incapable of a personal relationship with anyone - he lacks even an ounce of willingness for the vulnerability necessary to see living beings as anything more than an object rife for destruction.

What bothers you about Augustine?

And yes, i used the word concupisence incorrectly. I had to look it up and must of mispelled it.

Aspen, I was just going to log off when I saw this.
(use the "reply" or it won't get "quoted"...)

Anyway,
Yes, we agree on the enemy.
He is not omni-present, he does not know our thoughts, and I agree on all you said above.

Augustine. I don't like him because he changed his mind about a couple of important things. One was evil and where it comes from.
He thought he had it all figured out and then just before dying he announced that he didn't know from where it originates and that it's impossible to know. Something else very important he changed his mind about, but I can't think of it right now.

He came up with infant baptism. I wish they had just left it alone.
He came up with predestination which Luther and Calvin then used to supply us with the marvelously evil doctrine of double predestination and election and depravity.

He was different from every other ECF. I fail too understand, to tell you the truth, WHY he was given such authority.

I like Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Tertullian. Origen, Polycarp, Justin Martyr and some others. But not Augustine.

 

[bbyrd009]

So do YOU believe God, Yahweh, created evil?

yes, just like you would "create" dross if you were refining gold, or in another reflection, to identify something as separate from God, God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness.

another perspective here is an empire, accused of funding its own enemies, IS, the difference being intent i guess.

It's God who causes us to suffer so much?

ha, i'm hearing the wail of a child there, "my parents cause me to suffer soooo much," lol
iow it is separation that causes suffering, but as sure as morning follows evening, day is dawning.

 

[bbyrd009]

@aspen understands you, but I don't.
What do you mean by "separation"?

separation from God? You got an ego, something animals don't have; you got free will, your will is separate from God's will iow, you can be guilty of murder while an animal cannot, and imo leave the debates about whether free will exists or not to the confused, whose vision speaks for itself imo.