Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
Not surprisingly the Bible answered the question first.
Rome killed Jesus in collusion with the accomplice Sanhedrin.
Did God Kill Jesus?
- Thread starter quietthinker
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Not surprisingly the Bible answered the question first.
Rome killed Jesus in collusion with the accomplice Sanhedrin.
In the original Koine Greek, we read Mary became pregnant by the Holy Spirit. Mary conceived and 9 months later gave birth to a human son, just as you, a human, were conceived and born 9 months later. Unlike you, however, Jesus is not only fully human but also fully divine, as He is God.
So, according to you, Jesus wasn't a human, rather a spirit, which means He didn't really die a painful and physical death, nor resurrect, since spirits can't physically die. Those are un-Christian beliefs.
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Your choice, of course, but I'd say those people are the ones we should talk to most - to convince them of their error.
For Jesus to BE fully Human, He would have been PROCREATED from a HUMAN MANS SEED.
He wasn’t! Mankinds SEED, BLOOD (which is mankinds LIFE of his body) had absolutely nothing whatsoever to Do with Jesus’ Birth.
John 1:
[13] Which were born,
Mankinds SEED, and Mankinds BLOOD, has EVERYTHING to do with Mankinds Procreation of an offspring of mankind.
Are you UNAWARE, Gods SEED “IS” Christ?
When the Holy Spirit “entered Mary’s womb… A seed of mankind, Mary’s egg, Mary’s Blood, had NOTHING whatsoever to do with, Procreating, Forming, Feeding the Forming infant, Carrying waste from the Forming infant ? (Which IS what the BLOOD DOES for a HUMAN that is being formed in a Human females womb.)
Are you UNAWARE, Jesus “took upon Himself the SEED of ABRAHAM”….Do you Understand what that means?
What SEED did Abraham Have?
* His natural seed, which reveals his natural “STOCK”…offspring…the blood line, relationship from human daddy’s and mommy’s….God divided (from Gentiles and called THEM Hebrews, THEN Tribes of ISRAEL, the Jews.
* Abraham ALSO had and encounter with the KING of SALEM, whereby Abraham received the “SEED of God”…..who is ? Christ Jesus.
So what about the “ole’” Gentile, divided and NOT of the STOCK blood and seed of a Hebrew…Tribesman of Israel…ie JEW….ie ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB?
IS a Gentile DOOMED, because he is NOT of the STOCK (natural offspring of Abraham) ?
No…….NOT “IF”…..an individual GENTILE freely CHOSES to Accept the Lord Gods OFFERING….TO: receive Gods SEED, and become MADE Spiritually QUICKENED…
ARE you UNAWARE….Gentiles do not BECOME … Tribes of Israel … (nor Jews)….
THAT… a GENTILE who, Becomes MADE Spiritually QUICKENED, BY receiving the SEED of GOD…(not in a womb, but IN the mans HEART)…….
BY Declaration of God…that individual BECOMES (is spiritually taking upon Hisself),
A SON of Abraham…
He doesn’t become a Hebrew, Nor Tribesman, Nor a Jew…….He Becomes…LIKE Abraham, LIKE Isaac, LIKE Jacob, LIKE David, LIKE Joseph……ALL of the genealogical LINE “OF” the House of David…..
ALL….who become having Received the SEED of God……ARE By Gods DECLARATION….(NOT BLOOD, but Gods Declaration) the OFFSPRING of Abraham, and Abraham their earthly father.
Matt 3:
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Luke 1:
[55] As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
[73] The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Luke 19:
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
John 8:
[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Acts 13:
[26] Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Rom 4:
[13] For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Gal 3:
[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[29] And IF ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Heb .2
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Have YOU received the SEED of God, who IS Christ? IF so…THEN…Like Jesus, YOU have taken upon yourself the the seed of Abraham….
AND “IF” you are accounted as the offspring of Abraham…(who IS the earthly father, God Appointed ).Issac…Jacob….David….(who Is the earthly king God Appointed) and David’s THRONE, God established IS a Throne without END.
“IF” you are accounted as Abrahams son, so ALSO are you accounted as Gods son….
Now, did you not know….JESUS, came to teach by His Word, and example to men by His Actions….the SAME earthly men CAN DO, to become WITH the Lord God Almighty…
FOREVER?
Did you not read HISTORY of HOW men struggled to BELIEVE, what they could not SEE?
Do you not comprehend the ALL POWERFUL God can APPEAR IN ANY FORM of His Creations that He Desires…WITHOUT Him Becoming the Created “thing”.
Human men could SEE…a human man, a dove, a bush….and full well KNOW they were IN the Presence of God….but do you really believe…God literally BECOMES a human man, a dove, a bush?
Do you NOT understand GOD is INVISIBLE to human eyes…Yet He has the POWER to APPEAR to human men IN ANY FASHION He chooses.
Do you believe a man who takes upon himself a gorilla covering, becomes a gorilla?
That is Scriptural teaching, my believe and I have said so.
Those are YOUR WORDS. You eat them, You own them….Not me. I have said no such thing.
Thanks for sharing YOUR WORDS and YOUR un-Christian beliefs.
Per the usual, again, I am not in agreement with your words or your understanding, which is only accountable to You.
How do you reconcile your beliefs that Jesus is a spirit Who died and resurrected when spirits are nonphysical and can't physically die?
You did not Learn, know? Jesus ONLY offered His Body, that God Prepared for Him…
Scripture reveals WHEN Jesus was to come into the World His Spirit would not be Sacrificed, but rather for Sacrifice and Offering …God ‘prepared a body for Him’.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
You said Jesus isn't human, but rather a spirit. Spirits are nonphysical, meaning they don't have physical bodies, nor can they physically die. This means if Jesus is a spirit like you claim, then He couldn't have died and resurrected, and that isn't a Christian belief.
Your going in circles has run it course.
You want to preach your Lord and Savior is a created human of dust of the Earth….that’s your gig, not mine.
My Lord God and Savior:
IS the Creator, not the created.
IS the Maker,
IS without Beginning
IS without Ending
IS the same, yesterday, today, tomorrow
IS Spirit,
IS All Powerful,
IS invisible to human eyes,
IS ABLE to APPEAR to the eyes of humans in ANY FASHION He chooses.
Genesis 21:33
Easy-to-Read Version
33 Abraham planted a special tree at Beersheba and prayed to the Lord, the God who lives forever.
Easy-to-Read Version
33 Abraham planted a special tree at Beersheba and prayed to the Lord, the God who lives forever.
My driver says,
James 2:26
Easy-to-Read Version
26 A person’s body that does not have a spirit is dead. It is the same with faith—faith that does nothing is dead!1 Peter 3:19
And by the Spirit he went and preached to the spirits in prison.
A great simple, though profound title question for a thread QT.
Answer: Yes, indeed, God killed his Son, because he had to, and because his Son wanted to die.....because....for.....else we would have to be killed off as a species, period. And despite many who pin the source of his death to the Pharisees and Romans.
Luke 1:5-2:22
Easy-to-Read Version
Zechariah and Elizabeth
5 During the time when Herod ruled Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah. He belonged to Abijah’s group.[a] His wife came from the family of Aaron. Her name was Elizabeth. 6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were both good people who pleased God. They did everything the Lord commanded, always following his instructions completely. 7 But they had no children. Elizabeth could not have a baby, and both of them were very old.8 Zechariah was serving as a priest before God for his group. It was his group’s time to serve. 9 The priests always chose one priest to offer the incense, and Zechariah was the one chosen this time. So he went into the Temple of the Lord to offer the incense. 10 There was a large crowd outside praying at the time the incense was offered.
11 Then, on the right side of the incense table, an angel of the Lord came and stood before Zechariah. 12 When he saw the angel, Zechariah was upset and very afraid. 13 But the angel said to him, “Zechariah, don’t be afraid. Your prayer has been heard by God. Your wife Elizabeth will give birth to a baby boy, and you will name him John. 14 You will be very happy, and many others will share your joy over his birth. 15 He will be a great man for the Lord. He will never drink wine or beer. Even before he is born, he will be filled with the Holy Spirit.
16 “John will help many people of Israel return to the Lord their God. 17 John himself will go ahead of the Lord and make people ready for his coming. He will be powerful like Elijah and will have the same spirit. He will make peace between fathers and their children. He will cause people who are not obeying God to change and start thinking the way they should.”
18 Zechariah said to the angel, “How can I know that what you say is true? I am an old man, and my wife is also old.”
19 The angel answered him, “I am Gabriel, the one who always stands ready before God. He sent me to talk to you and to tell you this good news. 20 Now, listen! You will not be able to talk until the day when these things happen. You will lose your speech because you did not believe what I told you. But everything I said will really happen.”
21 Outside, the people were still waiting for Zechariah. They were surprised that he was staying so long in the Temple. 22 Then Zechariah came outside, but he could not speak to them. So the people knew that he had seen a vision inside the Temple. He was not able to speak, so he could only make signs to the people. 23 When his time of service was finished, he went home.
24 Later, Zechariah’s wife Elizabeth became pregnant. So she did not go out of her house for five months. She said, 25 “Look what the Lord has done for me! He decided to help me. Now people will stop thinking there is something wrong with me.”
The Virgin Mary
26-27 During Elizabeth’s sixth month of pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to a virgin girl who lived in Nazareth, a town in Galilee. She was engaged to marry a man named Joseph from the family of David. Her name was Mary. 28 The angel came to her and said, “Greetings! The Lord is with you; you are very special to him.”29 But Mary was very confused about what the angel said. She wondered, “What does this mean?”
30 The angel said to her, “Don’t be afraid, Mary, because God is very pleased with you. 31 Listen! You will become pregnant and have a baby boy. You will name him Jesus. 32 He will be great. People will call him the Son of the Most High God, and the Lord God will make him king like his ancestor David. 33 He will rule over the people of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34 Mary said to the angel, “How will this happen? I am still a virgin.”
35 The angel said to Mary, “The Holy Spirit will come to you, and the power of the Most High God will cover you. The baby will be holy and will be called the Son of God. 36 And here’s something else: Your relative Elizabeth is pregnant. She is very old, but she is going to have a son. Everyone thought she could not have a baby, but she has been pregnant now for six months. 37 God can do anything!”
38 Mary said, “I am the Lord’s servant. Let this thing you have said happen to me!” Then the angel went away.
Mary Visits Zechariah and Elizabeth
39 Mary got up and went quickly to a town in the hill country of Judea. 40 She went into Zechariah’s house and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the unborn baby inside her jumped, and she was filled with the Holy Spirit.42 In a loud voice she said to Mary, “God has blessed you more than any other woman. And God has blessed the baby you will have. 43 You are the mother of my Lord, and you have come to me! Why has something so good happened to me? 44 When I heard your voice, the baby inside me jumped with joy. 45 Great blessings are yours because you believed what the Lord said to you! You believed this would happen.”
Mary Praises God
46 Then Mary said,“I praise the Lord with all my heart.
47 I am very happy because God is my Savior.
48 I am not important,
but he has shown his care for me, his lowly servant.
From now until the end of time,
people will remember how much God blessed me.
49 Yes, the Powerful One has done great things for me.
His name is very holy.
50 He always gives mercy
to those who worship him.
51 He reached out his arm and showed his power.
He scattered those who are proud and think great things about themselves.
52 He brought down rulers from their thrones
and raised up the humble people.
53 He filled the hungry with good things,
but he sent the rich away with nothing.
54 God has helped Israel—the people he chose to serve him.
He did not forget his promise to give us his mercy.
55 He has done what he promised to our ancestors,
to Abraham and his children forever.”
56 Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then went home.
The Birth of John
57 When it was time for Elizabeth to give birth, she had a boy. 58 Her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord was very good to her, and they were happy for her.59 When the baby was eight days old, they came to circumcise him. They wanted to name him Zechariah because this was his father’s name. 60 But his mother said, “No, he will be named John.”
61 The people said to Elizabeth, “But no one in your family has that name.” 62 Then they made signs to his father, “What would you like to name him?”
63 Zechariah asked for something to write on. Then he wrote, “His name is John.” Everyone was surprised. 64 Then Zechariah could talk again, and he began praising God. 65 And all their neighbors were afraid. In all the hill country of Judea, people continued talking about these things. 66 Everyone who heard about these things wondered about them. They thought, “What will this child be?” They could see that the Lord was with him.
Zechariah Praises God
67 Then Zechariah, John’s father, was filled with the Holy Spirit and told the people a message from God:68 “Praise to the Lord God of Israel.
He has come to help his people
and has given them freedom.
69 He has given us a powerful Savior
from the family of his servant David.
70 This is what he promised
through his holy prophets long ago.
71 He will save us from our enemies
and from the power of all those who hate us.
72 God said he would show mercy to our fathers,
and he remembered his holy agreement.
73 This was the promise he made to our father Abraham,
74 a promise to free us from the power of our enemies,
so that we could serve him without fear
75 in a way that is holy and right for as long as we live.
76 “Now you, little boy, will be called a prophet of the Most High God.
You will go first before the Lord to prepare the way for him.
77 You will make his people understand that they will be saved
by having their sins forgiven.
78 “With the loving mercy of our God,
a new day[b] from heaven will shine on us.
79 It will bring light to those who live in darkness, in the fear of death.
It will guide us into the way that brings peace.”
80 And so the little boy John grew up and became stronger in spirit. Then he lived in areas away from other people until the time when he came out to tell God’s message to the people of Israel.
The Birth of Jesus Christ
2 It was about that same time that Augustus Caesar sent out an order to all people in the countries that were under Roman rule. The order said that everyone’s name must be put on a list. 2 This was the first counting of all the people while Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3 Everyone traveled to their own hometowns to have their name put on the list.4 So Joseph left Nazareth, a town in Galilee, and went to the town of Bethlehem in Judea. It was known as the town of David. Joseph went there because he was from the family of David. 5 Joseph registered with Mary because she was engaged to marry him. (She was now pregnant.) 6 While Joseph and Mary were in Bethlehem, the time came for her to have the baby. 7 She gave birth to her first son. She wrapped him up well and laid him in a box where cattle are fed. She put him there because the guest room was full.
Some Shepherds Hear About Jesus
8 That night, some shepherds were out in the fields near Bethlehem watching their sheep. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord was shining around them. The shepherds were very afraid. 10 The angel said to them, “Don’t be afraid. I have some very good news for you—news that will make everyone happy. 11 Today your Savior was born in David’s town. He is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This is how you will know him: You will find a baby wrapped in pieces of cloth and lying in a feeding box.”13 Then a huge army of angels from heaven joined the first angel, and they were all praising God, saying,
14 “Praise God in heaven,
and on earth let there be peace to the people who please him.”
15 The angels left the shepherds and went back to heaven. The shepherds said to each other, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this great event the Lord has told us about.”
16 So they went running and found Mary and Joseph. And there was the baby, lying in the feeding box. 17 When they saw the baby, they told what the angels said about this child. 18 Everyone was surprised when they heard what the shepherds told them. 19 Mary continued to think about these things, trying to understand them. 20 The shepherds went back to their sheep, praising God and thanking him for everything they had seen and heard. It was just as the angel had told them.
21 When the baby was eight days old, he was circumcised, and he was named Jesus. This name was given by the angel before the baby began to grow inside Mary.
Jesus Is Presented in the Temple
22 The time came for Mary and Joseph to do the things the Law of Moses taught about being made pure.[c] They brought Jesus to Jerusalem so that they could present him to the Lord.Psalm 94:11
The Lord knows what people are thinking. He knows that their thoughts are like a puff of wind.
Matthew 12:25
But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not subsist.
Is the above proof that Jesus is G_d?
The Lord knows what people are thinking. He knows that their thoughts are like a puff of wind.
Matthew 12:25
But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not subsist.
Is the above proof that Jesus is G_d?
For sure as is the following:
In the original language used, Koine Greek, it says:
"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)
Who is the Word that became flesh? Jesus. The Word is Who Jesus is, the same Word identified as God 13 verses prior in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate.
Additionally, Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)
Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).
Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? As He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).
In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.
The same Jesus said to be God by His apostle, Thomas: "ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)
The apostles knew Jesus was God. Even the Pharisees understood Jesus called Himself God, but rather than accept it, they tried to kill Him for "blasphemy," and Jesus never denied it when they acknowledged He claimed to be God, because He is.
~ son of man is a terrestrial (earthly) man reproduced of a terrestrial mans seed that which fertilized a terrestrial female’s egg.
I preach Jesus is God Incarnate, conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit, given a soul, grew in His mother's womb for 9 months, was born, ate, drank, slept, healed the sick, cast out demons, raised the dead, suffered physical pain and death, and resurrected, just as Scripture says.
He was fully human and fully divine.
No, your beliefs just don't make sense.
Scripture says Jesus had a physical body, not the false appearance of one, and physically suffered pain and death, then resurrected.
You say Jesus was a spirit, but spirits are nonphysical, and thus don't have physical bodies, nor can physically suffer pain, die, and resurrect. This means if Jesus is a spirit like you claim, then He couldn't have been tortured, died and resurrected, and that isn't a Christian belief.
Human and Divine are opposites!
Human IS Natural.
Divine IS Spiritual.
My beliefs are Spiritual, not intended to make sense to a mans logical concluding Mind.
Romans 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
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