Did God Kill Jesus?
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So what? There's no denying Jesus was both human and divine.
You don't realize how ridiculous that statement is.
Now, Scripture says Jesus had a physical body, not the false appearance of one, and physically suffered pain and death, then resurrected.
You say Jesus was a spirit, but spirits are nonphysical, and thus don't have physical bodies, nor can physically suffer pain, die, and resurrect. This means if Jesus is a spirit like you claim, then He couldn't have been tortured, died and resurrected, and that isn't a Christian belief.
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Ditto.
You have run the course repeating yourself…that two complete opposites are the same.
Scripture claims Christ Jesus IS Spirit…
Not my job to understand spiritual things for you.
Scripture claims Jesus, IS the Word of God and Gods Word came forth out from Gods Mouth and was Sent to where God Chose to Sent it. IT, yes it, which God called a Holy thing.
Not my job to understand spiritual things for you.
Scripture claims God prepared a body for Jesus for WHEN He would come into the world.
Not my job to understand spiritual things for you.
Scripture claims the Carnal Mind is Against God.
Not my job to understand spiritual things for you.
Scripture claims men would hear and not understand.
Not my job to understand spiritual things for you.
Scripture claims those men close to Jesus gained Spiritual Understanding and hoped other men would do the same.
Not my job to understand spiritual things for you.
In first grade you should have learned the difference between “IS” and “AS”.
Is a man is a natural man of dust, a human.
As a man is a spirit, with the power to appear as a man.
Not my job to understand anything for you.
Don’t speak for me, my own words are sufficient.
but spirits are nonphysical, and thus don't have physical bodies, nor can physically suffer pain, die, and resurrect. This means if Jesus is a spirit, then He couldn't have been tortured, died and resurrected. Therefore, what you believe isn't what Scripture claims.
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What was the point of all that copy and paste? I certainly don't have the inclination to wade through something I don't find a reason to.....and my guess is, judging by the things people post on this forum, that most others wouldn't be bothered either.
Theophilus to Autolycus Book II
Philip Schaff: ANF02. Fathers of the Second Century: Hermas, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, and Clement of Alexandria (Entire) - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
You will say, then, to me: "You said that God ought not to be contained in a place, and how do you now say that He walked in Paradise? "Hear what I say. The God and Father, indeed, of all cannot be contained, and is not found in a place, for there is no place of His rest; but His Word, through whom He made all things, being His power and His wisdom, assuming the person of the Father and Lord of all, went to the garden in the person of God, and conversed with Adam. For the divine writing itself teaches us that Adam said that he had heard the voice. But what else is this voice but the Word of God, who is also His Son? Not as the poets and writers of myths talk of the sons of gods begotten from intercourse [with women], but as truth expounds, the Word, that always exists, residing within the heart of God. For before anything came into being He had Him as a counsellor, being His own mind and thought. But when God wished to make all that He determined on, He begot this Word, uttered, the first-born of all creation, not Himself being emptied of the Word [Reason], but having begotten Reason, and always conversing with His Reason. And hence the holy writings teach us, and all the spirit-bearing [inspired] men, one of whom, John, says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God," showing that at first God was alone, and the Word in Him. Then he says, "The Word was God; all things came into existence through Him; and apart from Him not one thing came into existence." The Word, then, being God, and being naturally produced from God, whenever the Father of the universe wills, He sends Him to any place; and He, coming, is both heard and seen, being sent by Him, and is found in a place.
Origen: de Principiis Book II
Philip Schaff: ANF04. Fathers of the Third Century: Tertullian, Part Fourth; Minucius Felix; Commodian; Origen, Parts First and Second - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Seeing, then, that all things which have been created are said to have been made through Christ, and in Christ, as the Apostle Paul most clearly indicates, when he says, "For in Him and by Him were all things created, whether things in heaven or things on earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or powers, or principalities, or dominions; all things were created by Him, and in Him; " and as in his Gospel John indicates the same thing, saying, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God: the same was in the beginning with God: all things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made.
Origen: de Principiis Preface
Philip Schaff: ANF04. Fathers of the Third Century: Tertullian, Part Fourth; Minucius Felix; Commodian; Origen, Parts First and Second - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
The holy Apostles, in preaching the faith of Christ, treated with the utmost clarity of certain matters which they believed to be of absolute necessity to all believers...The specific points which are clearly handed down through the Apostolic preaching [are] these: First, that there is one God who created and arranged all things...Secondly, that Jesus Christ himself was born of the Father before all creatures...Although He was God, He took flesh, and having been made man, He remained what He was, God
Novation: A Treatise Concerning the Trinity
Philip Schaff: ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
And let us therefore believe this, since it is most faithful that Jesus Christ the Son of God is our Lord and God; because "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. The same was in the beginning with God."
Pseudo-Gregory Thaumaturgus: A Sectional Confession of Faith
Philip Schaff: ANF06. Fathers of the Third Century: Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius the Great, Julius Africanus, Anatolius, and Minor Writers, Methodius, Arnobius - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
And we anathematize those who constitute different worships, one for the divine and another for the human, and who worship the man born of Mary as though He were another than the God of God. For we know that "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
So, again....what's the point? ....make it concise please.
How do you know spirits ”do not HAVE” a physical body?
Scripture teaches Of Gods Body, Gods hands, Gods feet, Gods eyes, God walking, Gods … on and on…
Why do you insist on contradicting Scripture that God does not ‘HAVE’ a body (shape/form)?
Job 19:
[21] Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
1 Kings 9:
[3] And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
John 19:
[34] But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Did Scripture Not teach you…Human body’s have BLOOD….and BLOOD is the LIFE of a human’s BODY?
Did Scripture Not teach you…Human body’s are from Dust of the Earth?
Did Scripture Not teach you…God “Prepared” Jesus’ “Body” for when He would come to Earth?
Did Scripture Not teach you…DUH…Gods “Preparation” of Jesus’ Body was to GIVE His BODY, “PURE, clean, Sinless” Blood?
Did you NOT Spiritually Understand Gods Works ARE Spiritual ARE All Powerful and Prepared Jesus’ BODY WITH BLOOD? And with FLESH in the Likeness “AS” an earthly man?
You think God “NOT” powerful enough, or able MAKE His OWN BODY… appear in the LIKENESS “AS” terrestrial EARTHLY mans created body?
Why do you believe….Jesus “WAS” a Human Earthly man……when Every Human Earthly man IS NATURALLY a BODY of Earthen dust, with CORRUPT Blood flowing in his Veins, Heart….
Spiritual BODY’S do NOT HAVE BLOOD (Life) IN their body’s….
** Ya think It impossible FOR God to Prepare Jesus’ BODY “with BLOOD” ?
** Did you NOTICE…Jesus RETURNED to Heaven…WITHOUT the BLOOD that God had Prepared for His BODY when it was SENT to Earth?
No. what it means IS you did not Learn Heavenly Spirits are more powerful than human men. And God who IS Spirit is the creator OF Heavenly Spirits, and MORE Powerful than the Spirits He created….
And SPIRITS HAVE BODY’S of FLESH (called Celestial) Body’s and Have the POWER to appear in the LIKENESS as A human’s body…and mimic a human’s behavior….of eating, and sleeping, and walking, and talking, eating with a mouth, and hearing with ears…..
BUT, BUT, BUT….ONLY the BODY of Jesus’ Spirit BODY, is REVEALED TO HAVE BEEN PREPARED WITH….BLOOD…
Blood is the Life of man…Blood Life is WHY a man can FEEL, sadness, sorrow, and pain when his FLESH is being beaten, ripped and gouged.
Therefore, your trying to UNDERSTAND spiritual things with a carnal minds understanding is MOOT.
You should give more credibility to Leaning on Gods Understanding than your own minds (anti-godly) understanding.
Your accusations Against me, for knowing, for trusting Gods Spiritual Understanding is no negative reflection ON me, is no negative consequence unto me….but is a negative consequence unto you for using your minds understanding to Preach (and ARGUE in defense of your Minds Understanding) Against Gods own spiritual works and His Understanding.
I quoted you several Scriptures. Do you go read them and the surrounding Scriptures, study the words revealed, go research their comparison to other scriptures, Ask God for His Understanding ?
I am, going to gander a guess by your expediency and speech of your replies…
You did Not pause…go search, read, study, Gods Word….nor ask God for His Understanding……but rather promptly returned with your SAME OLD minds argument and accusations.
I even gave you Gods own Warning that a mans own Carnal Mind is Against God….
Did you NOT Learn…Jesus was TEACHING human men HOW TO; by, through, Gods Word and Gods Power and the mans Freewill Choosing to Confess Belief In the Lord God…….that the Lord God Almighty would EXERCISE HIS POWER and Make a human man transformed from HIS (temporary BLOOD LIFE) into a Forever Living SPIRITUAL LIFE…in the Likeness “AS” God ?
My service unto God is finished with you…to speak Gods Truth, gave you a few Scriptures starting point for you to read and study….
Not my job to read for you, to study for you, to spiritually understand for you, or to ask God “for you” to give you His Spiritual Understanding…
If you desire THAT ^^… YOU make the effort yourself.
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Exactly, Jesus God Incarnate was conceived, grew in a womb for 9 months, was born, ate drink, slept, worked, sweated blood, suffered pain, death, and resurrected, etc., because He's human, which is again why your belief that Jesus is spirit contradicts Scripture, because a spirit is nonphysical, Jesus was physical.
So you still believe that which is born, coming forth out from God IS Human…
Hummm
John 1:
13] Which were born,
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
You are a perfect example…of…
Matt 13:
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Just as Scripture teaches….
I’ll stick with believing Jesus came forth OUT from God, was BORN forth OUT from God, IS Spirit. IS Eternally the same, yesterday, today, tomorrow, IS God.
And No, God was never a created from dust Human or procreated From the LIFE (Blood) of a Human.
Glory to God,
Taken
Well, first, Jesus is now alive forever more and...why would God commit suicide??!!
Matthew 22:37
Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’
God (the Father) wanted to sacrifice Himself on humanities behalf, as He is the perfect sacrifice, but since God is Spirit (Jn. 4:24) He can't physically die, so He incarnated a part of Himself (the Word called God in Jn. 1:1) and became human (Jesus, the Word made flesh (Jn. 1:14), by the power of the Holy Spirit (God, Matt. 1:20, Lk. 1:35) so as to die for us.
That's why we read that Jesus (God in the flesh) was conceived by the Holy Spirit (God), grew in a womb for 9 months, was born, ate, drank, slept, worked, sweated blood, was tortured, died, and resurrected, etc., which is again why your belief that Jesus is spirit contradicts Scripture, because a spirit is nonphysical, Jesus was physical. He was human. So, your interpretation of verses where you think it says otherwise are wrong.
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Well, first, Jesus is now alive forever more and...why would God commit suicide??!!
It wasn't suicide, it was deicide. God (the Father) wanted to sacrifice Himself on humanities behalf, as He is the perfect sacrifice, but since God is Spirit He can't physically die, so He incarnated a part of Himself (the Word called God in Jn. 1:1) and became human (Jesus, the Word made flesh (Jn. 1:14), by the power of the Holy Spirit (God, Matt. 1:20, Lk. 1:35) so as to die for us. That's how much He loves us.
Jesus even called Himself God on several occasions, even the Pharisees knew He did, but they refused to accept it, which is why in one instance they said they were going to kill Him for calling Himself God because it was "blasphemy." And, Jesus didn't deny that He did because He is.
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John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Where in Scripture does Scripture teach “your words”?
Nancy, being a little melodramatic and even illogical here I suspect. You might be heavily influenced by religious elders and your religious upbringing.Well, first, Jesus is now alive forever more and...why would God commit suicide??!!
Obviously life still exists today as it was at the time of of Christ. This is no nothingness, there is life today, so God's spirit and its presence still abounds.
The obvious point here is that Jesus, his human spirit departed his body and therefore died for a couple of days in God's keeping until God his Father raised him back to life, to immortality. He is the first from the dead, the firstfruits as scripture clearly indicates. Therefore, his, Jesus' death has nothing in common with God at all. They are two completely different spirits in play here.
Think about it, if God died, who could revive him? It's not a riddle either.
Great week!
Incarnate…IS a Spirit manifesting himself IN A Human FORM
Manifesting…IS a Spirit taking UPON himself a FORM (BODY) human EYES can SEE!
A “Human Form”…IS a “Humans” BODY.
“Human Body’s” are Created FROM Dust of the Earth
“Human’s” are Dust of the Earth.
“Human’s” were Created by God.
“Human’s” are Formed by God.
“Human’s” are “procreated” by a “Human’s Seed”.
“Procreated Human’s” were Created by God.
“Procreated Human’s” are Formed by God.
“A Human’s Form is it’s BODY”
“A Human’s BODY, is Made
“MADE” is the WHOLE of its BODY Parts
“A Human’s LIFE IS it’s BLOOD”.
“A Human’s WHOLE of its Parts IS “MADE” a Living thing …
** WHEN the BODY is Born of Water
** WHEN the Breath of God IN a soul IS BLOWN IN that BODY (form).
Living things CREATED OUT of the Earth…
Are called Terrestrial.
Living things CREATED OUT of the Heaven…
Are called Celestial.
God the Father IS Spirit IS the Creator
God the Son IS Spirit IS the Maker of all Creations.
God the Christ IS Spirit IS the Power of all things Created and Made.
Creator, Maker, Power….ARE ONE SPIRIT;
One Lord God Almighty.
The CREATOR, (God)
the MAKER, (Lord)
the POWER, (Almighty)
IS NEVER the Created!
God (Because of His OWN SUPREME POWER CAN take Upon His OWN Heavenly FORM (Body)… a FORM (Body) that LOOKS LIKE…….. WHATEVER God Freely Decides and Chooses and Does.
….A holy Angel servant
….A bush
….A dove
….A terrestrial man
Not a big secret, God HAS numerous times TAKEN upon His OWN Heavenly Body,
Forms of “Created” Celestial things…AND “Created” Terrestrial things.
By YOUR “interpretation”…
* The Heavenly Lord God Almighty HAS NO BODY of His Own.
* The Heavenly Lord God Almighty “IS” a
Created Angel, a Created Bush, a Created Dove, a Created Human man.
By YOUR interpretation…ANY THING a human MAN can SEE, the “THING” BECOMES “what the MAN can SEE”….
You MAKE God “BECOME” a HUMAN MAN.
Scripture teaches NO SUCH THING.
Scripture IN Gods Word, says God WORD IS GOD, and “APPEARED (was Manifested) “AS” the LIKENESS “AS” a Human man, FOR Human men TO SEE.
The Lord God Almighty Does have “A” BODY of His OWN (which Humans can NOT SEE.)
The Lord God Almighty Does have “A” SOUL of His OWN (which Humans can NOT SEE.)
The Lord God Almighty Does have “MULTIPLE” SPIRITS of His OWN (which are the SAME ONE SPIRIT, which Humans can NOT SEE).
The Lord God Almighty…Can, Has, Does, Shall, TAKE UPON his Own Body…FORMS a Human man “CAN SEE and recognize from their own common knowledge, that an Angel has the power to APPEAR “AS’ a Human, that a BUSH is a Plant, that a DOVE is a Bird, that a Human is a Created Form of man that Human men CAN SEE.
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The One God is a Triune God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Word is the part of Himself (God) that became human (Jesus).
God (the Father) Who is Spirit (Jn. 4:24) wanted to sacrifice Himself on humanities behalf, as He is the perfect sacrifice, but spirits can't physically die, so He incarnated a part of Himself (the Word called God in Jn. 1:1) by becoming human (Jesus, called the Word [God] made flesh Jn. 1:14), conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (God, Matt. 1:20, Lk. 1:35), carried for 9 months in and born of the Virgin Mary, so as to die for us.
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