Did God Kill Jesus?

[L.A.M.B.]

Op Did God kill Jesus?

John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 10:​

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[Nancy]

It wasn't suicide, it was deicide. God (the Father) wanted to sacrifice Himself on humanities behalf, as He is the perfect sacrifice, but since God is Spirit He can't physically die, so He incarnated a part of Himself (the Word called God in Jn. 1:1) and became human (Jesus, the Word made flesh (Jn. 1:14), by the power of the Holy Spirit (God, Matt. 1:20, Lk. 1:35) so as to die for us. That's how much He loves us.

Jesus even called Himself God on several occasions, even the Pharisees knew He did, but they refused to accept it, which is why in one instance they said they were going to kill Him for calling Himself God because it was "blasphemy." And, Jesus didn't deny that He did because He is.

Yes, agreed

 

[APAK]

Jesus does did not, does not HAVE a “human spirit”.

If not a human spirit then what?! You have no scripture to support this illogical and irrational claim at all.

Jesus himself said from his Cross: 'Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit (pneuma)',--------his human spirit, part of his human soul.

Luke 23:46...
'And Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said: Father, into your hands I commend my spirit. And having said this, he breathed his last.'
He was dead and his soul was no more as with any human being, until God would act upon it. His spirit and body were in his Father's 'hands.'

And again in Matt 27:50..
'And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.'----------------his human spirit.

(Gal 4:4) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,...At the right time, God created his Son born of a woman, and sent him on his mission for our salvation, and his own death in the process.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

For those of you interested in this question, this PDF offers an explanation which will surprise most.

Hello quietthinker, Interesting PDF

Decision Making John Seventeen:3-12

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Read full chapter

Love, Walter and Debbie

 

[Sigma]

@Taken
You say, "Gods Word absolutely IS a Part of God…
EVERY PART of GOD IS SPIRIT!

You continue to preach…
God WHO IS Not Created…Became the Created."

I said God Incarnated a part of Himself, not created Himself. In Jn. 1:14, we read that Jesus is referred to as "the Word (God) made flesh." The word "flesh" in the original language Koine Greek is "σάρξ." Definition below:

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ
Greek transliteration: sarx
Simplified transliteration: sarx

Numbers
Strong's number: 4561
GK Number: 4922

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 147
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-3b(1)

Gloss: flesh, body

Definition: flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew; by extension human, humankind, with a focus on the fallen human nature, which is frail and corrupt in contrast to immaterial (spiritual) things, thus the NIV (1984) translation sinful nature.

God (the Father) Who is Spirit (Jn. 4:24) wanted to sacrifice Himself on humanities behalf, as He is the perfect sacrifice, but spirits can't physically die, so He incarnated a part of Himself (the Word called God in Jn. 1:1) by becoming human (Jesus, called the Word [God] made flesh Jn. 1:14), conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (God, Matt. 1:20, Lk. 1:35), carried for 9 months in and born of the Virgin Mary, so as to die for us.

Jesus was human according to the flesh, and fully divine in nature. Had Mary not been humble to the very extreme limit, She would not have deserved to bear within Her Him Who was lowering Himself: God, to the humiliation of being a man in order to make reparation for the pride of the human race.

 

[Taken]

If not a human spirit then what?! You have no scripture to support this illogical and irrational claim at all.

Jesus himself said from his Cross: 'Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit (pneuma)',--------his human spirit, part of his human soul.

Luke 23:46...
'And Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said: Father, into your hands I commend my spirit. And having said this, he breathed his last.'
He was dead and his soul was no more as with any human being, until God would act upon it. His spirit and body were in his Father's 'hands.'

And again in Matt 27:50..
'And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.'----------------his human spirit.

(Gal 4:4) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,...At the right time, God created his Son born of a woman, and sent him on his mission for our salvation, and his own death in the process.

Jesus “having a spirit” was not the point or challenge.
Jesus “having a HUMAN spirit” was the point and challenge.

 

[Taken]

@Taken
You say, "Gods Word absolutely IS a Part of God…
EVERY PART of GOD IS SPIRIT!

You continue to preach…
God WHO IS Not Created…Became the Created."

I said God Incarnated a part of Himself, not created Himself. In Jn. 1:14, we read that Jesus is referred to as "the Word (God) made flesh." The word "flesh" in the original language Koine Greek is "σάρξ." Definition below:



God (the Father) Who is Spirit (Jn. 4:24) wanted to sacrifice Himself on humanities behalf, as He is the perfect sacrifice, but spirits can't physically die, so He incarnated a part of Himself (the Word called God in Jn. 1:1) by becoming human (Jesus, called the Word [God] made flesh Jn. 1:14), conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (God, Matt. 1:20, Lk. 1:35), carried for 9 months in and born of the Virgin Mary, so as to die for us.

Jesus was human according to the flesh, and fully divine in nature. Had Mary not been humble to the very extreme limit, She would not have deserved to bear within Her Him Who was lowering Himself: God, to the humiliation of being a man in order to make reparation for the pride of the human race.

God has seven Spirits and not every man receives the same spirits….
I think the Spirit of Understanding eludes you.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Sigma]

God has seven Spirits and not every man receives the same spirits….
I think the Spirit of Understanding eludes you.

God Bless,
Taken

Your bow out has been duly noted.

 

[Taken]

Your bow out has been duly noted.

Yep…going is circles, is fun for kids on a merry-go-round…a spiritual discussion with carnal mindedness has no satisfactory ending.

 

[Sigma]

Yep…going is circles, is fun for kids on a merry-go-round…a spiritual discussion with carnal mindedness has no satisfactory ending.

You bowed out after I showed you that in the original language, Koine Greek, in Jn. 1:14 the word "σάρξ," (flesh) was used and it refers to a human, and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" means God incarnated Himself and became human: Jesus, Who was still fully divine in nature. You've been overthinking something very simple and clear.

 

[Taken]

You bowed out after I showed you that in the original language, Koine Greek, in Jn. 1:14 the word "σάρξ," (flesh) was used and it also refers to a human, and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" means God incarnated Himself and became human: Jesus.

Jesus’ BODY is Spiritual, without beginning, without ending, the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.

His BODY revealed IN the world, was MADE Visible to mankind’s natural EYES, “ONLY” by, through, of God Himself “Preparing” “A BODY” for Jesus, For
When He would come From Heaven to Earth, (ie “The World”).

Jesus (Gods Word) … IN God, IN Heaven, Came forth OUT from God IN Heaven, (called BORN of God) was SENT to the World, SENT to a selected Virgin womb of a Woman (of expressly A Jewish woman betrothed to a Jewish man OF the House of David and the Jewish woman Agreed with Gods selection of her Virgin womb, and the Jewish man Agreed to commence with his marriage proposal (betrothal) to that woman, and not engage with his wife in a sexual relationship until After the birth of a child SENT to her womb). In the same FASHION as human births, being After nine months the child in her Virgin Womb would be born…would be called Jesus, the Son of Man (and revealed to that woman, that child would also /at some point in time, be Called the Son of God.

There is ZERO Scriptural teaching that HUMAN men come forth OUT from God IN Heaven and are then SENT to Earth!

You repeatedly preaching a mans CARNAL teaching and CARNAL understanding is FALSE on its face.

HUMAN Forms/Body’s are DUST of the ground
And
Return to DUST.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen.3
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 6:
[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

No where does Scripture teach Jesus’ BODY was DUST of the ground or Returned to DUST.

You have been hoodwinked and continue preaching the same that fooled you…to the detriment of others that do not verify what you claim.

Best for you to read and believe scripture rather than men.

 

[Sigma]

Jesus’ BODY is Spiritual, without beginning, without ending, the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.

His BODY revealed IN the world, was MADE Visible to mankind’s natural EYES, “ONLY” by, through, of God Himself “Preparing” “A BODY” for Jesus, For
When He would come From Heaven to Earth, (ie “The World”).

Jesus (Gods Word) … IN God, IN Heaven, Came forth OUT from God IN Heaven, (called BORN of God) was SENT to the World, SENT to a selected Virgin womb of a Woman (of expressly A Jewish woman betrothed to a Jewish man OF the House of David and the Jewish woman Agreed with Gods selection of her Virgin womb, and the Jewish man Agreed to commence with his marriage proposal (betrothal) to that woman, and not engage with his wife in a sexual relationship until After the birth of a child SENT to her womb). In the same FASHION as human births, being After nine months the child in her Virgin Womb would be born…would be called Jesus, the Son of Man (and revealed to that woman, that child would also /at some point in time, be Called the Son of God.

There is ZERO Scriptural teaching that HUMAN men come forth OUT from God IN Heaven and are then SENT to Earth!

You repeatedly preaching a mans CARNAL teaching and CARNAL understanding is FALSE on its face.

HUMAN Forms/Body’s are DUST of the ground
And
Return to DUST.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen.3
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 6:
[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

No where does Scripture teach Jesus’ BODY was DUST of the ground or Returned to DUST.

You have been hoodwinked and continue preaching the same that fooled you…to the detriment of others that do not verify what you claim.

Best for you to read and believe scripture rather than men.

In Jn. 1:14, in the original language Koine Greek, the word "σάρξ" (flesh) is used, and it refers to a human, and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" means God incarnated Himself becoming human: Jesus, by being conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit (God), who then carried Him for 9 months and delivered Him from Her womb. That is Scripture. Therefore, your interpretation of other verses where you think it says Jesus was not human are just wrong.

 

[Taken]

In the original language, Koine Greek, in Jn. 1:14 the word "σάρξ," (flesh) was used and it also refers to a human, and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" means God incarnated Himself and became human: Jesus. That is Scripture. Therefore, your interpretation of verses where you think it says Jesus was not human are just wrong.

:-(

 

[Taken]

Did God kill Jesus ?

No, Lucifer did.

 

[Lambano]

Did God kill Jesus?​

What does this scripture mean?

23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of lawless men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. (Acts 2:23)

Ah, yes. The lamb slain before the Foundation of the World. (Revelation 13:8)

 

[MatthewG]

For those of you interested in this question, this PDF offers an explanation which will surprise most.

No. Jesus gave up his own life for the Father and the sins of the world ( all people. ) The people of Isreal killed Jesus, as proclaimed by Peter. Jesus constantly prayed for the ability to do the Fathers will. And God helped in his plan being accomplished they both worked together in order to achieve His plan. Which was to reconcile the world back unto himself through Christ.

Acts 3:15
You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

 

[Taken]

Did God kill Jesus?​

What does this scripture mean?

23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of lawless men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. (Acts 2:23)

Ah, yes. The lamb slain before the Foundation of the World. (Revelation 13:8)

YES!

Job 38:
[4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38
[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

John 8:
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[quietthinker]

Hello quietthinker, Interesting PDF

Decision Making John Seventeen:3-12

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Read full chapter

Love, Walter and Debbie

Thanks for looking at it guys. Not sure if you've seen the collection of essays I've posted elsewhere. Anyway, I found them pretty stimulating also. Here's a link for your perusal.

 

[The Learner]

Jesus “having a spirit” was not the point or challenge.
Jesus “having a HUMAN spirit” was the point and challenge.

https://ichthys.com/mail-kenosis2.htm

Apollonaris Matthew text - B-Greek: The Biblical Greek Forum

Texts I think relate are:

Luke 23:46

Easy-to-Read Version

​

46 Jesus shouted, “Father, I put my life in your hands!”[a] After Jesus said this, he died.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. Luke 23:46 “I put … hands!” Literally, “I put my spirit in your hands.” Quote from Ps. 31:5.

Luke 23:46 in all English translations

Luke 22
Luke 24

James 2:26

Easy-to-Read Version

​

26 A person’s body that does not have a spirit is dead. It is the same with faith—faith that does nothing is dead!
Read full chapter
James 2:26 in all English translations

James 1
James 3

John 1:1

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Christ Comes to the World​

1 Before the world began, the Word[a] was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. John 1:1 Word The Greek word is “ logos,” meaning any kind of communication. It could be translated “message.” Here, it describes Jesus Christ before he was sent to earth as a human being, which is the way God chose to tell the world about himself. Also in verses 10, 14, 16.

John 1:1 in all English translations

Luke 24
John 2

​

 

[The Learner]

John 1:14

Easy-to-Read Version

​

14 The Word became a man and lived among us. We saw his divine greatness—the greatness that belongs to the only Son of the Father. The Word was full of grace and truth.
Read full chapter
John 1:14 in all English translations

Luke 24
John 2

Hebrews 10:5-10

Easy-to-Read Version

​

5 So when Christ came into the world he said,
“You don’t want sacrifices and offerings,
but you have prepared a body for me.
6 You are not pleased with the sacrifices of animals killed and burned
or with offerings to take away sins.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am, God.
It is written about me in the book of the law.
I have come to do what you want.’”
8 Christ first said, “You don’t want sacrifices and offerings. You are not pleased with animals killed and burned or with sacrifices to take away sin.” (These are all sacrifices that the law commands.) 9 Then he said, “Here I am, God. I have come to do what you want.” So God ends that first system of sacrifices and starts his new way. 10 Jesus Christ did the things God wanted him to do. And because of that, we are made holy through the sacrifice of Christ’s body. Christ made that sacrifice one time—enough for all time.
Read full chapter

Hebrews 9
Hebrews 11

Hebrews 2:17-18

Easy-to-Read Version

​

17 For this reason, Jesus had to be made like us, his brothers and sisters, in every way. He became like people so that he could be their merciful and faithful high priest in service to God. Then he could bring forgiveness for the people’s sins. 18 And now he can help those who are tempted. He is able to help because he himself suffered and was tempted.
Read full chapter

Hebrews 1
Hebrews 3

Genesis 2:7

Easy-to-Read Version

​

7 Then the Lord God took dust from the ground and made a man.[a] He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nose, and the man became a living thing.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. Genesis 2:7 man The Hebrew word means “man,” “people,” or the name “Adam.” It is like the word meaning “earth” or “red clay.”

Genesis 2:7 in all English translations

Genesis 1
Genesis 3

Hebrews 9:11-14

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Worship Under the New Agreement​

11 But Christ has already come to be the high priest. He is the high priest of the good things we now have. But Christ does not serve in a place like the tent that those other priests served in. He serves in a better place. Unlike that tent, this one is perfect. It was not made by anyone here on earth. It does not belong to this world. 12 Christ entered the Most Holy Place only one time—enough for all time. He entered the Most Holy Place by using his own blood, not the blood of goats or young bulls. He entered there and made us free from sin forever.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a cow were sprinkled on those who were no longer pure enough to enter the place of worship. The blood and ashes made them pure again—but only their bodies. 14 So surely the blood sacrifice of Christ can do much more. Christ offered himself through the eternal Spirit[a] as a perfect sacrifice to God. His blood will make us completely clean from the evil we have done. It will give us clear consciences so that we can worship the living God.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. Hebrews 9:14 Spirit Probably the Holy Spirit. See “Holy Spirit” in the Word List.

Hebrews 8
Hebrews 10

Hebrews 9:22

Easy-to-Read Version

​

22 The law says that almost everything must be made clean by blood. Sins cannot be forgiven without a blood sacrifice.
Read full chapter
Hebrews 9:22 in all English translations

Hebrews 8
Hebrews 10

Zechariah 13:1

Easy-to-Read Version

​

13 But at that time a new spring of water will be opened for David’s family and for the other people living in Jerusalem. That fountain will be to wash away their sins and to make the people pure.
Read full chapter
Zechariah 13:1 in all English translations

Zechariah 12
Zechariah 14