Did Jesus claim to be God?

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ElieG12

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If Jesus is the Son of God, it is obvious that he is not God. Jesus has a God. Do you consider yourself as having that very same God Jesus has???

Jesus called Him "my God and your God" (John 20:17) and he even in heavens talked about Him as his God (Rev. 3:12) ...

What other people think, say or do against that, is totally irrelevant.
 
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GracePeace

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Thanks for reading. Describe one of these issues precisely.
They were described before, so I will just quote what I already wrote:

Paul says Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.
Therefore, to see Christ is to see God.
John says Isaiah's vision of God wasn't God but was Jesus.

"No one has seen God", but lots of people saw Jesus.
If Jesus was seen, but no one saw God, Jesus can't be God.

Jesus also says the Father is greater than He is.
He says His Father is the only true God.
Revelation is a vision God gave Jesus.
Why is Jesus receiving revelations?
He has incomplete knowledge
But wouldn't His being a Son infer it isn't His place to have omniscience anyway?

That doesn't mean I could easily describe what Jesus actually is, because no one else could be said to have had "equality with God" (which itself means Christ isn't God--to have equality with something would be to assert yourself as being one thing and to assert the thing you have equality with is something else), or to be "the visible image of the invisible God". For sure, He isn't merely a man, because God created all things by Christ--He existed before everything.
 

ElieG12

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Right, in terms of human logic. The Godhead is a divine mystery that defies human logic.
That is nothing more than a pretext to continue in the same confusion, because where there is confusion anyone can invent "clarifications" and so glorify themselves.

The clear reality is evident in the Bible and if we want to be honest to ourselves we must accept it as it is: Jesus is the Son of God; he has a God; he received everything from God ... so we can't invent another different God based on speculation.
 
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Aunty Jane

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That is nothing more than a pretext to continue in the same confusion, because where there is confusion anyone can invent "clarifications" and so glorify themselves.

The clear reality is evident in the Bible and if we want to be honest to ourselves we must accept it as it is: Jesus is the Son of God; he has a God; he received everything from God ... so we can't invent another different God based on speculation.
There are other points to consider as well...
Jesus is our “High Priest” (Heb 3:1).....this position is one of service to God, as he is responsible for facilitating, acceptable worship to the people.
Paul also calls Jesus an “apostle” which means “one sent forth” and we know who it was who “sent” Jesus....a correct understanding of this is a salvation issue.
John 17:3....
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.”

Jesus is also called “God’s holy servant”, (Acts 4:27) which is again an argument based on the fact that a servant cannot also be his own Master.

Christ’s position as the “one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5-6) also cancels out him being one of the parties involved in the mediation. The mediator is the “go between”....so God can’t be his own mediator. If Christ was God, we would need a mediator between us and him also.

Who did the apostles say was their God?
1 Cor 8:5-6...
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Is there any clearer explanation to answer this important question?
There is a clear distinction “from whom” all things are, and “through whom” all these things exist.

It’s not just a matter of logic but scriptural truth that “the son of God” is exactly what he called himself.
When is a son ever the same person as his father? He can be a reflection, or an image of his father, (same traits and personality) but they are never the same being.
God created logic so why would he insult himself by being illogical?

Never once did Jesus ever say that he was God, but deferred to his God and Father at all times.
The evidence is all there describing exactly what their relationship is, but the ingrained notion of this belief is hard to shift when it is presented as the whole foundation of Christendom’s belief system.....

If the foundation is faulty, then when the storm comes, (and it is coming) the whole structure will collapse.
 
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GracePeace

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Right, it is a divine mystery.

If you can summarize the issue in one or two propositional statements, I may be able to offer you a more precise answer.
If you are interested in addressing it, then it is upon you to do the work.
It is improper to ask me to do your work.
 

GracePeace

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Right, it is a divine mystery.
If any difficulty in Scripture can just be swept or waved away with the statement, "it is a divine mystery", then why have any discussion at all? Why not just be satisfied with "it is a divine mystery" in every case? If you cannot and do not do that with other issues, it is not to be done in this case, either.
 

ElieG12

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Nothing about God's identity can be a "divine mystery," because if God's will is for you to know Him and His Son in order to be saved, it would be futile to even try to save yourself because you cannot know something that would be an incomprehensible mystery. .. and God would be cruel to demand in order to have eternal life to know something that He Himself has left as indecipherable.

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

1 Tim. 2:3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
 
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TonyChanYT

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If any difficulty in Scripture can just be swept or waved away with the statement, "it is a divine mystery", then why have any discussion at all? Why not just be satisfied with "it is a divine mystery" in every case? If you cannot and do not do that with other issues, it is not to be done in this case, either.
Right. I do not always answer with, "It is a divine mystery." See A Disciplined Probabilistic Approach to Biblical Hermeneutics
 
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ElieG12

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Is there anything about God's identity that you don't know about?
Again: I know everything I need to know about my God's identity.

I don't need to know everything about Trump to know who he is.

Again: you can't know someone you don't even know his name.

I recommend you to start with this exercise:
In the Bible God says too may times: MY NAME IS ___________ (Fill the blank).
 

TonyChanYT

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Right, so, as stated, it does not suffice here.
What precisely does not suffice what? Please identify the what1 and the what2 with precision. I prefer to argue precisely. That's why I have put some people on ignore because of their lack of precision in their sentences.
 

APAK

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The Bible does not record where Jesus said: "I am God". However, he said in (NIV) John 10:


Jesus claimed to be one with the Father.


Jesus' opponents thought that Jesus claimed to be God.


Jesus didn't deny the claim.


More precisely, Jesus insisted that he was the Son of God.

Elsewhere in John 14:


There is strong evidence that Jesus implied that he was God but he had always preferred to label himself as the Son of Man and the Son of God.

See also

Categorically, NO!!! He never claimed he was God and you must know it as truth if you have been a student of the Bible for more that at least several decades!

Stop trying to squeeze poison into areas of scripture that you say might say otherwise concerning the instrument of God's salvation, our Savior. You are attempting to make the Son more that he was then since he was born, and today, with given authority and power of God, his Father.

The Son of God would not be so vain and ignorant and you make him so. He knew who his Father was indeed, his God, who is his Father, period.

The scripture you quote in your OP is no support for your thread title at all.

The Son was literally possessed by God his Father in spirit and mind, as in one purpose and mission for at least our salvation. They are two distinct spirits, indeed. And you do not understand this do you? And maybe you will never come to this truth....

Why do, and as many as you, continue with this false reasoning that will never make the Son of God into the God the Son no matter how long you keeping pounding your heads against different walls. There will never be a break through. Give it up already, many have come before you attempting to force the impossible on Jesus. Jesus could never have succeeded in his mission on earth without God and his spirit dwelling within him!

This type of misuse of much scripture, mixed with injections of pagan concepts to support a pagan version of God and his Son is not new, Been going on for over 1600 years without zero success.

And you said that in the epistles, that Jesus is treated as God. Are you serious? Is there some new revelations in scripture concerning the Son of God, now being his Father God that I've missed all; these years?!

Admit that your real reason for this thread is to solely focus and play another sorry worn-out take or view to support your Bi or Triad god.
 
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